Is it time for Mongul?

[daBronzeBomma]

To reclaim his position as the "Preeminent Evil Overlord of the Superverse Franchise"?

And also, to let Darkseid go from said position?

I say yes.

Don't get me wrong: I love me some good ol' Kal vs Uxas enmity, and the two should still fight, but only on rare and memorable occasions, IMHO.

But the New Gods isn't really part of the Superverse, and it's shoehorning into Superman's world hasn't done it much favor in the long run. They're trying to be their own full-fledged franchise (see MISTER MIRACLE ongoing and the upcoming NEW GODS movie).

And after watching Thanos beat the Avengers + Guardians of the Galaxy + Doctor Strange in AVENGERS INFINITY WAR, I want Darkseid to be a universal DC villain that no one alpha hero or even one team can ever handle by themselves.

There's a lot to like about Mongul. He's a far better fighter than Darkseid, and pouncing around on all fours in battle would not be demeaning to him.

You just have to make Mongul as different from Darkseid as possible while keeping him squarely in the Evil Overlord trope.

On that note, here's a wacky start: give Mongul hair on his head. Seriously, look at Superman's rogues gallery and count the number of bald/hairless males versus non-bald/hairy males and you'll see the discrepancy.

Oh, and Rogol Zaar (or whatever his name is) sucks big-time and is not eligible to take Darkseid's place.

EDIT: Of course I misspell "it" as the 2nd word in the title of the thread! Mods, can you please fix it?

[marhawkman]

Mongul stories are fun because Mongul isn't OP enough to be an overwhelmingly powerful opponent for Supes. He's more Superman's equal.

[Restingvoice]

When was the last time he appeared? Metal?

[Robanker]

I've always thought Mongul had tons of potential and should be used more to break down the idea he's just the poor man's Darkseid.

I've had a Justice League idea floating my head where he's there big bad and he has a lot of angles left unexplored.

[DragonPiece]

When was the last time he appeared? Metal?

that and Jurgen's Action Comics.

I don't a Mogul push would happen anytime soon though, so I guess to answer your question op, I'd say no, it's not time. I would like to see a new story where Mogul really pushes Superman to his limits.

[DrNewGod]

I agree that Darkseid needs some downtime, and Mongul is probably the best sub. IMO, he hasn't been used to his potential since before "The Death of Superman".

Of course, first they've got to get this guy with the bad teeth that's running around the titles, posturing as The Biggest of the Bads, out of the way.

[The Cheat]

Urghh. The fact that Darkseid and Mongul are being discussed as being interchangeable just shows how far Darkseid's fallen as a character in recent years.

[Vordan]

Darkseid isn't really a Superman specific villain anymore. He's a JL-tier threat. Mongul could use some more focus I agree, but DC needs to figure out what they want to do with him.

[Sacred Knight]

I'd love it. Its another thing the New 52 doesn't get credit for that it should; bringing him strongly back into the fold in Superman's world. To date, that's been lost all over again (wait I just read he appeared in Jurgens' Action. I read that sparingly so I do not recall that).

But Mongul should definitely be that monster whom, when he shows up, on a physical level just has Superman saying "Goddammit". He has a physical presence that Lex and Brainiac, while equally dangerous for different reasons, do not possess. That's my ideal. In fact that would be my big three of Superman foes. Lex, Brainiac, Mongul. I love Hank Henshaw too but I'd put him just a liiitle bit below tier. Mongul would definitely not bow to him.

[marhawkman]

I don't personally think Mongul should be physically more powerful than someone like Zod really. He's dangerous, but what sets him as a top tier threat is that he doesn't rely on his personal powers to beat Superman.

[Ascended]

Urghh. The fact that Darkseid and Mongul are being discussed as being interchangeable just shows how far Darkseid's fallen as a character in recent years.

Well, Mongul was created to be a Darkseid proxy back when the New Gods didn't interact with the main DCU very often, so the comparison isn't without precedence.

But to answer the question......I gotta go with "no."

The Fourth World could definitely use a little more "quality over quantity" and Darkseid as the antagonist in Super-stories (or JL stories) has been way overdone for a long time. But Superman benefits from connections to the Fourth World and the Fourth World benefits from connections to the "S" so I'd like to see the Super-corner of the DCU remain the primary bridge between the DCU and the New Gods. And that, of course, means Clark has to deal with Apokolips at least every now and then. And dealing with Apokolips means Darkseid.

What I want to see is more respect and pathos given to Darkseid by DC's talent. I'd like to get back to a "less is more" approach, like Kirby did back in the day. And Mongul has a ton of potential to be explored and built upon, and he deserves more attention.

So that's my answer. Don't swap between them. Keep them both, use them well.

[Ascended]

Darkseid isn't really a Superman specific villain anymore. He's a JL-tier threat. Mongul could use some more focus I agree, but DC needs to figure out what they want to do with him.

We seem to be reaching a point where a "Superman" level threat really is a "JLA" level threat. Lex Luthor (along with his friends) is currently kicking the crap out of the League, Brainiac has been used as a JLA-level threat for years (Convergence, No Justice, Injustice 2, etc). Doomsday was already "sorta" a League threat, considering the monster always rips them up before the main event of killing the Last Son of Krypton.

Personally, I like that so many of Clark's villains are considered League level problems. It points out how powerful and important Clark is. If half his rogues are that dangerous and he still deals with them solo? That's why you don't tug on the man's cape.

[marhawkman]

My #1 thought on Apokalips is that not all stories involving New Gods need to involve Darkseid. You can have his underlings menace heroes without Darkseid being personally involved.

[Raijin]

I must be only one who doesn't get Darkseid vibes when it comes to Mongal. They have more than enough differences for them to stand apart.

[Vordan]

We seem to be reaching a point where a "Superman" level threat really is a "JLA" level threat. Lex Luthor (along with his friends) is currently kicking the crap out of the League, Brainiac has been used as a JLA-level threat for years (Convergence, No Justice, Injustice 2, etc). Doomsday was already "sorta" a League threat, considering the monster always rips them up before the main event of killing the Last Son of Krypton.

Personally, I like that so many of Clark's villains are considered League level problems. It points out how powerful and important Clark is. If half his rogues are that dangerous and he still deals with them solo? That's why you don't tug on the man's cape.

I don’t. The last thing we need is Batman “outhacking” Brainiac or other crap like that. It’s not a good thing for Supes rogues to get poached to go fight the League because that leaves less foes for him to fight on his own.

I must be only one who doesn't get Darkseid vibes when it comes to Mongal. They have more than enough differences for them to stand apart.

They both want to take over the universe, but Mongul has always been more hands-on and willing to get physical while Darkseid prefers to use his lackies. Also they both have similar character design in that they’re big, bald aliens who are physical equals or superiors to Superman.

Of course the irony is that Mongul was created as a ripoff of Thanos who is a rip-off of Darkseid producing one of the oddest copycat circles ever.