Is it time for Mongul?

[marhawkman]

I must be only one who doesn't get Darkseid vibes when it comes to Mongal. They have more than enough differences for them to stand apart.

Mongal? She's more like Stompa than Darkseid. Oddly enough its apparently canon that she's less powerful than her brother. Probably not MUCH less powerful, maybe it's the old "faster but not physically a strong" thing?

I'd LOVE to see Mongul or Mongal make an evil super-team to annoy the League! Legion of whatever stories always make a great way to create a threat that you NEED the JLA to deal with because 1 on X fights with supervillains usually go badly.

[Ascended]

I don’t. The last thing we need is Batman “outhacking” Brainiac or other crap like that. It’s not a good thing for Supes rogues to get poached to go fight the League because that leaves less foes for him to fight on his own.

Potentially, yeah, that's an issue. But that's not a problem with the concept as much as its a problem with bad writing, which no idea or character is immune to. And bad writers are never a reason to not do something. It's just a reason to hire better people.

[marhawkman]

Potentially, yeah, that's an issue. But that's not a problem with the concept as much as its a problem with bad writing, which no idea or character is immune to. And bad writers are never a reason to not do something. It's just a reason to hire better people.

Batman gets it worse, because writers feel the need to shoehorn him into comics, even in places where it logically makes no sense.

[Kuwagaton]

Mongul is pretty much the most unfortunate poster boy for that. His power was nerfed and he did become a henchman, sure. But in mercy killing him Waid gave him his two most embarrassing moments, through Wally and Neron. He peaked in Annual 11, but I kinda feel like for that story his name was just picked out of a hat.

I like him well enough but I'm not sure what will take him away from being seen as a store brand Thanos.

[daBronzeBomma]

This is probably a dumb question with an obvious answer that my Google-Fu is not strong enough to suss out, but ...

To which named alien species does Mongul belong?

Are all their members naturally Class 100 Bricks regardless of sun? Is he the only survivor like Kal, J'Onn, and Lobo? What planet is he from?

We know everything about Darkseid's and Thanos' respective pasts, but is Mongul really this blank of a canvas, in terms of backstory?

[Kuwagaton]

No, he originally did come from a whole race presumably like him. As a tyrant ruler he was overthrown by a priest, forced to flee, and look for an advantage to take his throne back, leading to his acquisition of Warworld. In post crisis history he was a champion gladiator who came to rule Warworld, but was then overthrown and ousted after the galaxy saw the broadcast of Superman standing up to and eventually defeating him. His children show up later and at least his son was stronger than him.

[magha_regulus]

They need to bring Mongul back to his pre-crisis levels and story. He was a much better character then. I like that he was about conquest and brute force. He is way more than a gladiator and they need to bring him back to his roots. They should use some of the other space themed books to show the level of the threat that he really is. Have his empire show up in the Green Lantern or Hawkman books for example. I liked that they had Zod in the Green Lantern books recently. Its showing what a menace he really is. I definitely agree with the poster who said Mongul should be in Superman's top tier of villains. He is evil with immense resources. When it comes ot his children, I'd have them represent and extension of his power, but each with tier own ambitions. They should fear their father and still try to expand the empire they'll inherit in their own way. If i were in charge I'd also find a way to retcon Mongul's subservience to the Cyborg Superman (who desperately needs a new name).

[Vordan]

They need to bring Mongul back to his pre-crisis levels and story. He was a much better character then. I like that he was about conquest and brute force. He is way more than a gladiator and they need to bring him back to his roots. They should use some of the other space themed books to show the level of the threat that he really is. Have his empire show up in the Green Lantern or Hawkman books for example. I liked that they had Zod in the Green Lantern books recently. Its showing what a menace he really is. I definitely agree with the poster who said Mongul should be in Superman's top tier of villains. He is evil with immense resources. When it comes ot his children, I'd have them represent and extension of his power, but each with tier own ambitions. They should fear their father and still try to expand the empire they'll inherit in their own way. If i were in charge I'd also find a way to retcon Mongul's subservience to the Cyborg Superman (who desperately needs a new name).

So glad I’m not the only one who thinks he needs a new name. Honestly whether it’s Mongul or Mongul Jr., I need to see a Mongul that doesn’t job. I need to see a guy with intelligence, who actually has plans and goals. FTMWHE is great because while Mongul is a powerhouse he takes out Supes via trickery.

[daBronzeBomma]

I don't personally think Mongul should be physically more powerful than someone like Zod really. He's dangerous, but what sets him as a top tier threat is that he doesn't rely on his personal powers to beat Superman.

Umm, what?

The most established clear- cut difference between Mongul and Darkseid is that Mongul absolutely relishes personal combat and Darkseid mostly considers fighting beneath him.

Case in point:



Nothing makes Mongul happier than getting his hands dirty with the blood of a worthy foe. Not so with Darkseid.

The issue is Mongul looks too much like Darkseid in terms of face and build and role. There are ways to correct that.

[Ascended]

The issue is Mongul looks too much like Darkseid in terms of face and build and role. There are ways to correct that.

I still think they should just lean hard into those similarities and make them work for the character. Make Mongul a worshiper of Darkseid. He's modeled his life after his god. Problems solved; it explains all the stuff they have in common and opens up new avenues to explore with Mongul that'll help set him apart.

One scene dealing with the particulars of Mongul's religion would go a long way towards making him stand on his own, even as he prays at the alter of Anti-Life.

[theoneandonly]

this makes me wonder about the fact that how mongul and darkseid have never been shown interacting AFIK though in a idiotic panel Orion is shown to be cognizant of Warworld and stating even darkseid fears it and so presumably the Fourth world had aso heard of mongul in Post crisis continuity. no idea about new 52 though.

[Ascended]

Well, continuity since Flashpoint has been a huge mess so who knows who has and has not heard of each other?

But off the top of my head.....no, I don't think Mongul has ever had any interactions with the New Gods in any continuity. Which wouldn't preclude the notion that Mongul worships Darkseid of course; we know there are supposed to be many cultures in the universe where Darkseid Is. Mongul's home world wouldn't necessarily even have to be one of those places, he could have stumbled upon the religion while off world.

I think Mongul as a zealous follower of Anti-Life has some real potential, personally, but I know it's not going to be everyone's cup of tea.

[Kuwagaton]

I'm not sure what's idiotic about Orion suggesting that. Modern continuity doesn't reflect this but Warworld was a much feared weapon and by the time Fourth World had been worked into main DC continuity, Superman and the things he dealt with were absolutely on the New God level.

Darkseid and Mongul... well I think Darkseid is smarter and shouldn't get down and dirty as much as Mongul. But when you write Mongul as a lesser Darkseid, then all people will want when he shows up is the real thing. Separate but equal would be my suggestion.

[Vordan]

Yeah making Mongul just a quasi-Kalibak isn’t a good way forward. He needs to be more than just Darkseid’s underling, otherwise he’ll end up like Grail: A lesser stooge for a higher boss. Nothing wrong with that but the purpose of this thread is about building Mongul up in his own right. He’s different enough from Darkseid that he can stand on his own, he just needs to stop jobbing and actually score some wins.

[Ascended]

Oh, I never said a quasi-Kalibak. Mongul as a worshiper of Darkseid doesn't mean he'd be Darkseid's underling. It just means his church is really f*cked up. I'd actually never have Mongul meet any representative of the Fourth World. The New Gods might have heard of Warworld and respect it's destructive power, Darkseid might know Mongul worships him, but that doesn't mean anyone is gonna open up a Boom Tube and invite the yellow bastard over for lunch.

I'd like to get back to the pre-Crisis approach; make Mongul one of Clark's most dangerous foes; more physically powerful, a brilliant strategist, with a weaponized planet capable of destroying solar systems, and armies capable of conquering any planet in that system first.

And then I'd put Darkseid back on his throne and keep him there. You'd almost never see him, he'd speak even less often, and he'd be completely beyond Clark's ability. A fight between Clark and Darkseid should be Clark pushing himself to his utmost limit just to survive long enough to escape; there should never even be the possibility of Clark winning a fist fight.

Basically make Mongul the space tyrant Clark gets into a bloody fist fight with, and make Darkseid the shadow behind the Fourth World's schemes. Like it was back in the day.

But as I said, I know not everyone is going to agree with my idea about making Mongul a worshiper of Anti-Life. Personally I think it adds to his character and opens up new avenues to explore with him (that no other Super-villain offers) but I can see how others would think it just moves him closer to a comparison we already make too often.