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  1. #31
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    When you say “make him a worshipper of Anti-Life”, what exactly do you mean? Is he dedicating his conquests to the glory of Darkseid? Because that I feel serves to reduce Mongul to another foot soldier of Darkseid. Now deciding to emulate Darkseid’s tyranny could work perhaps as long as there were some differences. Making Mongul more hedonistic, more in love with fighting, and eating, and f***ing could really help set him apart from Darkseid. And I have to say the New 52 did a good job of establishing Darkseid as a threat that requires the whole League. He’s not a “mere” Superman villain anymore.

  2. #32
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    Umm, what?

    The most established clear- cut difference between Mongul and Darkseid is that Mongul absolutely relishes personal combat and Darkseid mostly considers fighting beneath him.

    Nothing makes Mongul happier than getting his hands dirty with the blood of a worthy foe. Not so with Darkseid.
    Part of that is that Darkseid wants to think of himself as the most powerful being in the universe. Thus he is unwilling to consider anyone to be a worthy opponent. Any time someone proves themselves to be capable of beating his top tier minions he's like "welcome to beat down city! Population: you!" Until then he's like: "you are unworthy of my attention."

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    I'm not sure what's idiotic about Orion suggesting that. Modern continuity doesn't reflect this but Warworld was a much feared weapon and by the time Fourth World had been worked into main DC continuity, Superman and the things he dealt with were absolutely on the New God level.

    Darkseid and Mongul... well I think Darkseid is smarter and shouldn't get down and dirty as much as Mongul. But when you write Mongul as a lesser Darkseid, then all people will want when he shows up is the real thing. Separate but equal would be my suggestion.
    it was a remote possibility he would find a boom tube big enough to transport warworld into apokolips sphere so why would darkseid fear it?

  4. #34
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    When you say “make him a worshipper of Anti-Life”, what exactly do you mean? Is he dedicating his conquests to the glory of Darkseid? Because that I feel serves to reduce Mongul to another foot soldier of Darkseid. Now deciding to emulate Darkseid’s tyranny could work perhaps as long as there were some differences. Making Mongul more hedonistic, more in love with fighting, and eating, and f***ing could really help set him apart from Darkseid. And I have to say the New 52 did a good job of establishing Darkseid as a threat that requires the whole League. He’s not a “mere” Superman villain anymore.
    The bolded is what I mean. Or closer to it, anyway.

    Like, imagine the Maestro (Marvel's evil, future Hulk) goes to a church that pontificates like the Justifiers (my hate is justified, and all that) with a preacher who sounds like (but most certainly is not) Glorious Godfrey. Mongul's got a harem of sex slaves, eats himself into a food coma every night, decimates planets for no purpose beyond his own glory and the bottomless hunger of Warworld, and loves nothing more than getting into the gladiator's arena and ripping a few dozen war slaves apart at a time. It's especially fun when they don't have a single hope in hell of even scratching him. Intelligent and cunning but infinitely self-serving, honorless, and eternally savage, Mongul conquers in his own name but subscribes to the faith-based nihilism of (his sect's version of) Anti-Life. He looked at the lessons taught in Darkseid's bible and said "Yeah, that fella gets it. I'm gonna follow that holy man's example, but I'm doing it my way."

    Additionally, this might also add a little spice to his hatred for Superman. Now, not only do you have their history together from Exile on upwards (which is more than enough for their animosity, not sayin otherwise), but you've got a dude who has actually dared to punch God. In Mongul's eyes, not only is Superman the bastard who embarrassed and defeated him and crippled Warworld, he's a devil literally attacking Mongul's spiritual faith.

    As a nice little side bonus (that doesn't really help Mongul but would be fun all the same), this does open up the door (just a crack) to also explore the impact of the Fourth World on the DCU. Mongul's religion probably isn't going to get everything about Darkseid right. In fact, Mongul might believe a few things that are objectively, factually wrong. And that would just be fun. Mongul shouldn't be terribly devout; he's not one of those guys who has a bible quote for every situation, but it'd be fun if he did spout some scripture once in a while, and some of it's wrong. Mongul could be in a fight and say something and have Clark like "What? Darkseid never said that!" And as long as Mongul's otherwise written as intelligent and capable, he's not going to come off looking the idiot for his faith's misinterpretations.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  5. #35
    Fantastic Member Nero's Avatar
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    I'm all for Mongul being the recipient of more a prominent role in the Superman comics.

    I've always considered him one of Superman's greatest foes however that sentiment is often inconsistent from the editorial side of things. I think more emphasis should be placed on how dangerous of an adversary Mongul is to Superman. Let him be the main villain of major Superman story as oppose to just having him paired up alongside someone else. Mongul should be used for more than just having a standard slug fest with Superman.

    As far as Darkseid is concerned, it doesn't have to be either/or with him and Mongul. Both Mongul and Darkseid have had too much history with Superman to be cast aside for one or the other, they're both classic Superman villains. Yes, Darkseid is usually so big of a threat that he goes beyond just being a Superman villain but usually there's a place reserved for him in the Superman rogues gallery whenever there's a top ten Superman villains list conducted.

  6. #36
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
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    Count me in as being completely against Mongul kowtowing or being in awe of anyone.

    Not after he literally kissed the ring of Cyborg Superman.

    Not after Neron effortlessly destroyed him.

    Not after he followed Sinestro.

    Not after the Flash completely embarrassed him.

    If I want to see Supes take on a follower/admirer of Darkseid, I'll rewatch the last 10 minutes of JUSTICE LEAGUE. I have no desire to see comic-book Mongul become more like the DCEU Steppenwolf.

    And as others have pointed out, making him a follower/ admirer of Darkseid would only make me want to see Supes stop wasting his precious time with the Junior Varsity squad and start fighting Big Bad Uxas himself.

    So, it's a HARD pass on the Darkseid worship angle on Mongul for me.

    However, some other ideas here are intriguing.

    The idea that Mongul is far more visceral in action while still having a very smart mind. That he actively enjoys fighting, eating, "smashing" all with a vigorous lust for life that Darkseid never displayed.

    I truly think the best way to move Mongul forward is to find the sweet spot between as different from Darkseid as possible while simultaneously being as much of an evil cosmic overlord as possible.

    Which is tricky, I'll admit.

    For starters:

    Apokolips and New Genesis should NOT be planets, but separate extradimensional realms. This removes Darkseid from any possible GL jurisdiction questions.

    Mongul's WarWorld should be a legit Dyson Sphere, the size of an entire solar system, powered by an active red sun at its core.

    Anyone ever read the 1988 Superman one THE EARTH STEALERS? Kinda the same concept mostly.

    This WarWorld couldn't come to Earth without obliterating our Solar System. So Mongul main threat would always be remote.

    Maybe Mongul is slowly ridding the universe of "weaker" planets. Maybe he offers them a choice:

    1) accept a one-on-one fight between their best warrior and Mongul; if their champion can just last long enough in a fair fight, then Mongul's WarWorld will leave the planet alone; if they can't, the planet is processed and its people come under Mongul's surprisingly tolerant rule within WarWorld.

    2) not accept the fight and risk obliteration by WarWorld's overwhelming firepower.

    Of course, now the issue would be ... why don't the GLC just flat-out stop WarWorld? Well, now we gotta go the "Guardians agreed not to meddle" nonsense that Darkseid got, but such are the issues with a shared universe.

  7. #37
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    Mongul's WarWorld should be a legit Dyson Sphere, the size of an entire solar system, powered by an active red sun at its core.
    Damn, that's good. F*ck yeah, I like that a lot.

    Maybe Mongul is slowly ridding the universe of "weaker" planets. Maybe he offers them a choice:

    1) accept a one-on-one fight between their best warrior and Mongul; if their champion can just last long enough in a fair fight, then Mongul's WarWorld will leave the planet alone; if they can't, the planet is processed and its people come under Mongul's surprisingly tolerant rule within WarWorld.

    2) not accept the fight and risk obliteration by WarWorld's overwhelming firepower.

    Of course, now the issue would be ... why don't the GLC just flat-out stop WarWorld? Well, now we gotta go the "Guardians agreed not to meddle" nonsense that Darkseid got, but such are the issues with a shared universe.
    I mean, I'm not against it conceptually, but isn't that pretty close to MCU Thanos? Cull the galactic herd by wiping out a bunch of people? Sure, this would be a "survival of the fittest" thing while Thanos is just worried about natural resources but it feels like the same flavor to me.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  8. #38
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Damn, that's good. F*ck yeah, I like that a lot.



    I mean, I'm not against it conceptually, but isn't that pretty close to MCU Thanos? Cull the galactic herd by wiping out a bunch of people? Sure, this would be a "survival of the fittest" thing while Thanos is just worried about natural resources but it feels like the same flavor to me.
    Maybe have it so it’s just Mongul looking for worthy opponents? Mongul should be a far more selfish opponent, he’s not out to impose “order” like Darkseid, merely to enjoy life and push his boundaries.

  9. #39
    Amazing Member RudHao's Avatar
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    Make him like DBZ's Freeza. Intergalactic conquer, giant army of colorful henchmen, wipes out all life on a planet and sells it on black market, green lanterns too weak to handle him....

    Retcon, he blew up Krypton with his WarWorld.

    (Just kidding on that last part)

  10. #40
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Damn, that's good. F*ck yeah, I like that a lot.
    Thank you, good sir. That's high praise!



    I mean, I'm not against it conceptually, but isn't that pretty close to MCU Thanos? Cull the galactic herd by wiping out a bunch of people? Sure, this would be a "survival of the fittest" thing while Thanos is just worried about natural resources but it feels like the same flavor to me.
    Well, to be fair, there aren't a lot of choices when it comes to motivating evil overlord types. Either they want to dominate the world/universe out of greed or save it in an unacceptably brutal manner out of twisted compassion or in rarer instances, literally destroy as much as they can.

    MU Thanos is far less sympathetic than his MCU counterpart, and I don't think the movie version has spilled into the comics version.

    What if Mongul were more like a cosmic Ras al Ghul combined with Galactus' purpose, rather than a Darkseid or a comic-book Thanos rip-off?

  11. #41
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    Well, to be fair, there aren't a lot of choices when it comes to motivating evil overlord types. Either they want to dominate the world/universe out of greed or save it in an unacceptably brutal manner out of twisted compassion or in rarer instances, literally destroy as much as they can.

    MU Thanos is far less sympathetic than his MCU counterpart, and I don't think the movie version has spilled into the comics version.

    What if Mongul were more like a cosmic Ras al Ghul combined with Galactus' purpose, rather than a Darkseid or a comic-book Thanos rip-off?
    Well it touches on why they're "evil"...

    Defining why an overlord is evil also defines their motives to a large degree. There's a lot of nuance possible but first you have to start with what makes them evil. The idea of dealing with a super-nihilist scares the ---- out of people because well... who wouldn't be scared at the idea some guy might blow the entire planet to bits just because he can?

    More conventional conquerors are easily relatable simply because they're so common IRL. Then you have corporate moguls and so on....

  12. #42
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    What if Mongul were more like a cosmic Ras al Ghul combined with Galactus' purpose, rather than a Darkseid or a comic-book Thanos rip-off?
    Hmmm.....

    It could work, certainly. I feel like the Young Justice cartoon delved into this a little bit with Mongul trying to "save" earth from the Reach by blowing it up (my favorite version of Warworld, and maybe Mongul too). But would this make Mongul a little too "noble?" Galactus is an agent of cosmic decay, Ra's is an eco-terrorist trying to save the planet. Would making Mongul more like that remove too much of his savagery? Does it make him a little less brutal if his acts of violence are inspired by good intentions, rather than straight up simple blood lust?

    I think you could definitely spin Mongul like this and make it work. But I dunno if it would serve to set him apart from the other space tyrants or not. Still, it'd be a cool take on the character and I'd be interested in seeing it play out.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  13. #43
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    Thank you, good sir. That's high praise!
    Ha! Well, I'm glad you think so, because I'm totally stealing that idea.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

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