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  1. #31
    Incredible Member Fuzzy Mittens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I never heard of that villain. What is the villains backstory?
    Silver age villain, Image-Maker was ruler of 'the mirror dimension' which was the realm of mirror image. He was able to make real in his universe anything that was reflected in a mirror as a mindless simulacrum that obeyed his will. He tried conquering the world because reasons and made an army of a thousand Wonder Womans.

  2. #32
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Mittens View Post
    Silver age villain, Image-Maker was ruler of 'the mirror dimension' which was the realm of mirror image. He was able to make real in his universe anything that was reflected in a mirror as a mindless simulacrum that obeyed his will. He tried conquering the world because reasons and made an army of a thousand Wonder Womans.
    Because of the fact the mirrors are ancient it's not going to work that way. However, I wouldn't mind if he tried to steal or copy the magic of the mirrors. In the gateway dimension there is a god island where many different gods live so of course it is going to run into magically artifact so he could turn a dimension into his own.

  3. #33
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Her status quo changed so often nothing would stick. Even now, removing her ability to return to Themyscara was silly because it locks her away from most her supporting cast. Hell, Cheetah was turned into a part of her supporting cast in Rebirth.

    Once DC sticks with a status quo for maybe a decade, it'll start to set in stone and hopefully last. I have always felt the flux in her cast has made it hard for her book to gain traction with new fans. Her friends, family and love interests change pretty much with every run, effectively losing and gaining fans at the same rate.

    Diana is a--pardon the pun-- wonderful character but her cast needs time to shine and get fans invested in her part of the universe. I remember when they released DCU Online and Wonder Woman's starting zone was just East Side Metropolis. DC has historically had no idea what to do with Diana and constantly throws the baby out with the bath water. Rebirth genuinely began with "all of it before was wrong, this is the truth!!!"

    I stopped after Rucka, so I don't know if his second run has already been retconned, but I don't doubt it. The thing is I don't see this trend stopping. DC doesn't get Superman half the time and they respect Diana less than him. I fully imagine they'll keep changing everything until they find lightning in a bottle by luck, and then they'll reboot the line in a crossover so she can hook up with Batman this time. Then she gets Gotham as a supporting cast and we can all go home early this weekend.

  4. #34
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    It's not the first tiem Dc has removed her abiltity to go back home. The reason for that is because they felt it she wasn't given up anything if she can return home. I would rather it be something like she can return home just not often due to how paradise island works.

  5. #35
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Her status quo changed so often nothing would stick. Even now, removing her ability to return to Themyscara was silly because it locks her away from most her supporting cast. Hell, Cheetah was turned into a part of her supporting cast in Rebirth.

    Once DC sticks with a status quo for maybe a decade, it'll start to set in stone and hopefully last. I have always felt the flux in her cast has made it hard for her book to gain traction with new fans. Her friends, family and love interests change pretty much with every run, effectively losing and gaining fans at the same rate.

    Diana is a--pardon the pun-- wonderful character but her cast needs time to shine and get fans invested in her part of the universe. I remember when they released DCU Online and Wonder Woman's starting zone was just East Side Metropolis. DC has historically had no idea what to do with Diana and constantly throws the baby out with the bath water. Rebirth genuinely began with "all of it before was wrong, this is the truth!!!"

    I stopped after Rucka, so I don't know if his second run has already been retconned, but I don't doubt it. The thing is I don't see this trend stopping. DC doesn't get Superman half the time and they respect Diana less than him. I fully imagine they'll keep changing everything until they find lightning in a bottle by luck, and then they'll reboot the line in a crossover so she can hook up with Batman this time. Then she gets Gotham as a supporting cast and we can all go home early this weekend.
    I'm all for consistency, but though there are many I loved there's not a single WW status quo I'd want around for 10 years. Variety is the spice of life. Instead of of setting a status quo in stone they should do so with her supporting cast. Past members could drift in and out, imagine Inspector Ed Indelicato informs A.R.G.U.S. Cathy Perkins has been murdered and her boyfriend Michael Schorr is a suspect for instance? Or Ferdinand is the key to solving some mystery or something, but Steve and Etta should be mainstays. There shouldn't be more than 3 or 4 consecutive issues where they don't appear. We haven't seen Etta for 2 writer's runs, that's a problem.

    As for Themyscira Rucka took it off the table to show Diana becoming Wonder Woman and leaving the island was indeed a sacrifice. We get to visit but she doesn't, Hippolyta and the Amazons still appear but they don't get to interact with Diana. So far that's been enough, but we all know eventually the ban will be lifted and we'll get Paradise Island back again.
    Last edited by Koriand'r; 10-10-2018 at 04:30 PM.

  6. #36
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Diana being cut off from Paradise Island is not that big of a deal. it's easy enough to just make it so she can return home again, which may be the case if Ares is free in Wilson's run. it being in-accessible played an important part in the motivations for the villains, so that should be kept in continuity. It's not like we've been without the Amazons that much, they were featured in Year One and the Truth, and sitting out Robinson's run for the most part is a blessing.

  7. #37
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    I don't think Diana is particularly solitary, but I can't say I am particularly connected to any of her supporting cast. I love Steve and Etta, but I have read plenty of great stories without them. Same with the Wonder Girls I have never liked Cassie and I have liked Donna in the past, but their presence is not required in any Wonder Woman story for me. I think the difference between Wonder Woman supporting characters and other supports like the Robins, Alfred and Lois Lane their absence is notable when they are not there I don't think Wonder Woman's supporting cast has got that yet.

  8. #38
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    If Mala ever gets written back, I would like her to be a supporting cast. I would love it if she was in charge of transformation island. That things like the Venus girdle comes back so that non of her enemies can attack Diana or anyone but it can also be turned against her

  9. #39
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    If Mala ever gets written back, I would like her to be a supporting cast. I would love it if she was in charge of transformation island. That things like the Venus girdle comes back so that non of her enemies can attack Diana or anyone but it can also be turned against her
    Orlando had Mala name dropped. I'd love to see her back to. I disliked Morrison's characterization of her in Earth One, at least the first volume, but I'm still glad he featured her. And she seems to be in charge of Reformation island in volume 2.

    Mala existing as Diana's childhood friend during the New 52, showing that she wasn't bullied by all the Amazon children 24/7, would have helped that tremendously.

  10. #40
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Orlando had Mala name dropped. I'd love to see her back to. I disliked Morrison's characterization of her in Earth One, at least the first volume, but I'm still glad he featured her. And she seems to be in charge of Reformation island in volume 2.

    Mala existing as Diana's childhood friend during the New 52, showing that she wasn't bullied by all the Amazon children 24/7, would have helped that tremendously.
    Cool. I really didn't like the whole children bullying Diana. Now I wouldn't mind if it was a few amazons girls had bullied Diana but grown out of it. Heck if we wanted a rival for Diana maybe could be Orana. I mean if the amazons ever could have children on Paradise Island I would mind if done well. I mean instead of the reason why there aren't no male children or the island isn't because amazons hateful behavior but someone's been stealing the male children.

    I wonder what Mala looks like in rebirth

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I would like to see Cassie and Donna in a Wondie comic.

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Orlando had Mala name dropped. I'd love to see her back to. I disliked Morrison's characterization of her in Earth One, at least the first volume, but I'm still glad he featured her. And she seems to be in charge of Reformation island in volume 2.

    Mala existing as Diana's childhood friend during the New 52, showing that she wasn't bullied by all the Amazon children 24/7, would have helped that tremendously.
    Well, those New52 Amazons were "erased" (not real) with the advent of Rebirth. With the Rebirth Amazons much closer to pre-New52 mindset than otherwise.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaffrey View Post
    This is the primary reason --



    Another reason, I think, is that Perez and everyone after him (except for a brief period following Infinite Crisis) jettisoned the Diana Prince identity. Diana Prince allows Wonder Woman to interact with a supporting cast in a more relatable way, without her having to be Wonder Woman 24/7.
    Diana interacted with people just fine without the Diana Prince ID. When they tried to bring it back temporarily the only person she really interacted with was Tom Tressor and their relationship was far from relatable.

  14. #44
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    I echo all the statements that have been made. I'd say the problem is really DC's fault because they are the one who allow the writers to come in a jettison the supporting cast in favor of their own creations. Imagine their reaction if a Superman writer tells them, "I'm not going to use Lois Lane or Jimmy Olsen. I'm going to create my own characters." How long would a Batman writer last if he decided to replace Alfred with Aunt Harriet or a completely new character? Wonder Woman has established supporting characters just like Superman and Batman, but DC keeps allowing writers to neglect them. I sat down and wrote out some parallels between the casts and it's really a shame that Diana's cast has been so neglected. They really should be on par with their Super and Bat contemporaries.

    The Hero: Superman -> Batman -> Wonder Woman
    The Civilian: Clark Kent -> Bruce Wayne -> Diana Prince
    The Love Interest: Lois Lane -> Selina Kyle -> Steve Trevor
    The Best Friend: Jimmy Olsen -> Dick Grayson -> Etta Candy
    The Boss: Perry White -> Commissioner Gordon -> ???
    The Parent: Ma & Pa Kent -> Alfred -> Hippolyta
    The "Girls": Kara Zor-El (Supergirl) -> Barbara Gordon (Batgirl) -> Donna Troy (Wonder Girl)
    The Youngster: Con-El Superboy -> Tim Drake -> Cassandra Sandsmark
    The Child: Jonathan Kent -> Damian Wayne -> ??? (Lyta Trevor Pre-Crisis Earth 2)
    The Rebel: Bizzaro? -> Jason Todd -> Artemis
    The Arch Enemy: Lex Luthor -> The Joker -> The Cheetah
    The Nemesis: Brainiac -> Ra's Al Ghul -> Ares
    The Big Bad: General Zod -> Bane -> Circe

    That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure others can come up with additional entries.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent 86 View Post
    But, the main cause of that seems to be each new writer's approach to jettisoning her supporting characters, including family, friends and foes in favour of establishing a new Wonder Family. And of course DC Comics allowing them to do so without any editorial oversight or control.
    Yes, and definitely in combination of 20 years of Kanigher not doing the kind of world building in the Silver Age that later writers of Superman, Batman, etc draw from so constantly. Ronno/Manno & Wingo/Bird-Man (seriously, Kanigher complained about names like Etta Candy, but the best he could come up with for Bird-boy was "Wingo"?) aren't really weirder than Lori Lemaris or Clayface, but they got zero development.

    In terms of villains, having Diana fight random, generic dinosaurs and giant clams so often did her stable of villainy no favors, and so many of his other villains - Paper Man, The Human Tank Mouse Man, Fireworks Man, are somehow even more generic than Kite-Man and The Rainbow Raider. To be fair, after Sensation Comics turned into a romance comic in the late 40s, Diana had only one title that was sometimes bi-monthly, but in my mind, that makes proper use of the real estate she did have even more important.

    Anyway, I think at this point, the jettisoning is more to blame, but those largely fallow two decades didn't help.

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