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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    Default Is Wonderwoman to solitary?

    I’ve always felt it was strange that Wonderwoman’s cast is so small. To me everything about the character screams that she is a character that would prefer to be in a group. I think it stems from the need to make her a female Superman equivalent. Superman historically has been a loner, because it plays up his alien nature. But Diana is different, she made a choice to leave her home and be around people. She is a warrior, but what is a warrior, but what is a warrior, but a person who works well with in a group? (Army, troop etc). Especially when you consider the type of warrior she is. The amazons are warriors very much in the ancient Greek vane. The Greeks faught in phalanxes, a very team orientated style of fighting. Growing up in that type of society, Diana would probably have had team dynamics drilled into her at a very early age. Then their is the notion that Diana has an ideology she is trying to empart to the world. When you take all these elements, into consideration, one has to wonder why Diana’s family of characters are so small. The Wondergirl’s are estranged and barely show up in the core book ,Artemis is more of rival then an friend half the time. And she doesn’t have anything close to what would be considered a gender swapped version of herself.

  2. #2
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    It is, but what has to be considered is that Superman's cast once upon a time, and Batman's now, is so big because of how popular and successful those two characters were/are historically. Wonder Woman's never really tasted that kind of success where creators then start adding so much more to the world that sticks.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  3. #3
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    I was just thinking about this. Just about each robin has there own team they lead. Bendis is restablishing the superman family while bringing In two new characters who are inspired by Superman. Meanwhile Donna is in a dying group and while Cassie is back, no information was released with her so Young Justice is obviously about Bart, Conner, and Tim even though it should be. I feel like Wonder Woman should have a magic family as big as Shazams family.

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    I'd say yes, Diana is too solitary, but that is something which has been created.

    If we look at Marston, Diana had reliable access to the Amazons back on Themyscira, Etta Candy and the Holliday girls, Steve Trevor, Phillip Darnell, and probably others. She also gained some new allies and associates, like Paula von Gunther.

    But it seems that post-Marston, Diana's supporting cast seems to detoriate. Darnell is a regular up to WW up to circa 1945–46, but appears much more sparsely afterwards. The same is true for Paula von Gunther and the Holliday girls. It even impacted Etta Candy, who had her last early appearance in 1950, and then didn't reappear until 1971, and that one was a previously unpublished Marston story. (Data from the DC wikia.)

    So to me it seems the lack of depth and breadth for Diana's supporting cast was appearing already in the 1950s. It cannot be blamed on "lack of success". That might explain that the supporting cast expands at a slower rate, but not that it starts to contract.

  5. #5
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    Hopefully, this changes soon.

  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    This is why I loved Marston's writing while a few times she was a lone, other times she had the holliday girls and Steve. I would love to see the holliday girls again

  7. #7
    Incredible Member Fuzzy Mittens's Avatar
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    A large number of writers have added characters to Wonder Womans mythos over the years. And originally she did have a strong supporting cast. The Amazons of the island acted as a support group who would take in refugees. Would rehabilitate criminals she brought to them. Would monitor the world to alert Wonder Woman to dangers. Actively did repair work on her invisible plane and provided her with new technology and tools to aid her in her efforts to better the world. The Holliday girls led by Etta were trained by Diana and would follow Diana into battle, answering to Dianas commands without hesitation. Criminals like Baroness Paula Von Gunther would be find redemption and become Wonder Womans most trusted allies.
    She had Steve Trevor. Hippolyta. Gerta Von Gunther. Mala. Gay Frollick. Philip Darnell. Queen Desira. Marya the giantess. Marva Jane Grey. Queen Moonbeam. the leprechaun trio of Woggle, Shaggy, and Hoppy. Aphrodite. Athena. Princess Elva. Oliver Sweetgulper.

    Later writers into pre crisis would toss in Ronno, Birdboy, Moon O'Day, Tracy Morgan, I-Ching, Wonder Tot, Wonder Girl, Cathy Perkins, Tim Trench, Drusilla, Donna Troy, Morgan Tracy, Nubia, Sofia Constantinas, Glitch the gremlin, Keith Griggs, Rrara, Atalanta, Mother Juju, Conrad Starfield, Robert Novack, Mike Baily, Stacy Macklin, Russell Abernathy, Lisa Abernathy, Eloise Abernathy, Howard Huckaby.

    Post Crisis gave us a wide array of supporting characters such as Julia Kapatelis, Vanessa Kapatelis, Myndi Mayer, Camille Sly, Helena Sandsmark, Mike Schorr, Hercules, the Wonder Dome, Chiron, the Sphinx, Dryad, Oceanid, Philipus, Io, Ferdinand, Jonah Mccarthy, Rachel Keast, Peter Garibaldi, Trevor Barnes, Leslie Anderson, Akila, Artemis, Alana Dominquez, Kane Milohai, the Gorilla Warriors, Achilles Warkiller, Lyta Trevor, Lyta Kosmotos, Olympian.

    Heck, even new 52 gave us a few interesting characters in Lennox, Zola, the Oddfellows.

    The problem is a combination of a lack of editorial oversight and this perception at DC that Wonder Woman doesn't have a mythos or a supporting cast or a history that works thus they are constantly tearing down what she has, moving her to a new location, retiring her supporting cast, and if not rebooting then completly retooling her.

    Originally she bought the identity of a nurse and wound up working in army intelligence and would hang out on the island and at Holiday college which gave her a wide net for her supporting cast.

    Then she lost her powers, moved to Greenwich, New York, got a new supporting cast and would be glove trotting, traversing the dimensions, and building up a supporting cast within Greenwich.

    Then she got amnesia forgetting everyone she knew, and got a job at the united nations where she built up a new supporting cast.

    Then she quit the united nations and got a job at NASA where her supporting cast was replaced again.

    Then we got earth-2 stories which brought back the core golden age cast.

    Then we got the whole world developing amnesia and forgetting wonder woman had ever been a superhero. Leading to her finding Steve washing ashore again, going through her origin for the upteenth time, and getting the blessing of falsified documents from Athena, setting her up as an air force pilot out of Hawaii who was transferred to Philip Darnells intelligence agency based out of the pentagon. This would bring back the core golden age cast and throw in several new faces.

    Then we got crisis, another reboot, and Wonder Woman was now based out of Boston and would bounce between there and Thymiscira, with a new supporting cast.

    Then she would leave Boston and move to Gateway city, leading to her replacing her supporting cast once again.

    Then she would move to New York to open up an Amazonian embassy, replacing her supporting cast again.

    then she would become an agent for the DMA, getting another new supporting cast.

    Then new 52 happened and she lives in london which we see for all of five minutes and voila, new supporting cast.

    Then Rebirth happened and Wonder Womans supporting cast is now Steve and anyone immediately associated with Steve.

    The problem isn't an issue of popularity for Wonder Woman. Heaven knows Flash hasn't fared much better. And Green Lantern was a non entity until Johns run. The issue is a combination of a lack of editorial oversight and a perception from DC that Wonder Woman is fundamentally broken and makes no sense.

    Similar to the 'Aquaman is lame' view that many people cite, within DC Wonder Woman is viewed as a character whose hard to write for. She has boobs which makes her a foreign entity to 90% of the staffers there as they have never met a woman before. Few if any of them have actually read a Wonder Woman comic, their knowledge of the character limited to her appearances in Justice League. And because none of them have actually read anything with Wonder Woman theres a perception that she doesn't really have anything, meaning their more than happy to let people retool the character. Move her to a new city. Give her a new supporting cast. "Who cares about the old supporting cast? Im FIXING WONDER WOMAN"

    And editorial since they don't care about Wonder Woman can be asked "Can I move her to a new city, erase her entire supporting cast, paint over the last five years of continuity and just start her over completely?" and they will simply get a shrug from whoevers supposed to be bleeping taking care of the book and told they can do whatever because Wonder Woman is treated as this separate thing from the rest of the comics that they don't really care about and would happily stop printing if it wasn't for the fact that they would lose the rights to the character.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    I've often felt similarly about her supporting cast, let alone her villains. For a character with her longevity, it's shocking to me that more of her villains haven't been developed over time.

    Anyway, it's time to return to classic Wonder concepts that allow her supporting characters to grow and flourish. We've basically had Steve for consistency since the DCnU and even that was limited due to Azz's run.

  9. #9
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    Yes, Wonder Woman is too solitary.

    But, the main cause of that seems to be each new writer's approach to jettisoning her supporting characters, including family, friends and foes in favour of establishing a new Wonder Family. And of course DC Comics allowing them to do so without any editorial oversight or control.

    I'd love to see them firmly establish Diana's supporting characters, including Steve Trevor, Etta Candy, Ferdinand, Hippolyta, Philippus, Nubia, Artemis, Donna Troy, Cassie Sandsmark, Helena Sandsmark, Julia Kapatelis and even Jumpa! I'd probably throw in a couple of more Amazons like Io and Clio as well. And I'd really like a member of Diana's Wonder Family to be a former enemy who she managed to redeem, whether that is Paula von Gunther or someone else. I'd probably be inclined to go with a male, technology-based villain who Diana redeems and who then provides technological assistance to Diana and her allies.

  10. #10
    Incredible Member Fuzzy Mittens's Avatar
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    If someone was to canonize all of the Wonder Woman supporting casts and establish that she just bounces between all of these places and roles, she would have the largest supporting cast of any character in comic books, surpassing even Batmans.

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Who would you want to be in her supporting cast? This is why I would like her to be placed in a city and them actually letting us see it. We rarely get to see. Gateway where most of her supporting cast are and some of her villains are. It should match her history. The city should have magically, science and alien background. Why can't Dc ever give her a great location?

  12. #12
    Incredible Member Fuzzy Mittens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Who would you want to be in her supporting cast? This is why I would like her to be placed in a city and them actually letting us see it. We rarely get to see. Gateway where most of her supporting cast are and some of her villains are. It should match her history. The city should have magically, science and alien background. Why can't Dc ever give her a great location?
    Personally if I had my way id love to just canonize all the locations, go with a long active origin and establish her to have lived in all of those places and had all of that supporting cast over the years.

    Gateway was nice but it was hardly most of her supporting cast from over the years. If you were to try tying her to a single city it would be as good a fit as any, though alot of her cast naturally were Amazons so she would be bouncing between the two locales.
    Shes had alot of interesting elements over the decades honestly. Intelligence officer. DMA agent. NASA. Holliday college. The Amazonian embassy. the United Nations stuff. S.O.S, the Greenwich stuff.

    Frankly id want most all of her supporting cast. They all offered at least something to the table be it an ally turned bad or a villain redeemed. The twenty or so romantic options. The scores of Amazons and differing Amazon tribes. the people from the embassy. Just so many things to play with. Its a grand toy box with alot of fun directions. Allies like Mother Juju the witch doctor to Paula the greatest of scientific minds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent 86 View Post
    Yes, Wonder Woman is too solitary.

    But, the main cause of that seems to be each new writer's approach to jettisoning her supporting characters, including family, friends and foes in favour of establishing a new Wonder Family. And of course DC Comics allowing them to do so without any editorial oversight or control.

    I'd love to see them firmly establish Diana's supporting characters, including Steve Trevor, Etta Candy, Ferdinand, Hippolyta, Philippus, Nubia, Artemis, Donna Troy, Cassie Sandsmark, Helena Sandsmark, Julia Kapatelis and even Jumpa! I'd probably throw in a couple of more Amazons like Io and Clio as well. And I'd really like a member of Diana's Wonder Family to be a former enemy who she managed to redeem, whether that is Paula von Gunther or someone else. I'd probably be inclined to go with a male, technology-based villain who Diana redeems and who then provides technological assistance to Diana and her allies.
    She actually did have someone like that during the Mod era. His name was Rapheal and he was a former supervillain whose gimmick was trick jewelery like ring guns, bracelet knives, and grenade earrings. He reforms and goes on to become a normal jeweler, though Diana seeks him out to outfit her with James Bond-like gadgets for her unpowered status quo. Possibly more specialized than you were thinking but.....

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent 86 View Post
    Yes, Wonder Woman is too solitary.

    But, the main cause of that seems to be each new writer's approach to jettisoning her supporting characters, including family, friends and foes in favour of establishing a new Wonder Family. And of course DC Comics allowing them to do so without any editorial oversight or control.
    This really says it all.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering. - the 4th Doctor

  14. #14
    Spectacular Member greymoon's Avatar
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    Like someone mentioned before, DC has done an abysmal job at creating a proper and consistent supporting cast and setting for WW despite over 75 years of comic book history giving them nearly everything they need to make one.

    It really is pretty sad that after all this time, the only consistent characters that we see in the WW book are Hippolyta and some public domain mythological characters. The worst part is, DC couldn’t care less...which is how we got into this situation in the first place.

  15. #15
    Marston > Kirby Vaffrey's Avatar
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    This is the primary reason --

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent 86 View Post
    [T]he main cause of that seems to be each new writer's approach to jettisoning her supporting characters, including family, friends and foes in favour of establishing a new Wonder Family. And of course DC Comics allowing them to do so....
    Another reason, I think, is that Perez and everyone after him (except for a brief period following Infinite Crisis) jettisoned the Diana Prince identity. Diana Prince allows Wonder Woman to interact with a supporting cast in a more relatable way, without her having to be Wonder Woman 24/7.

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