Is Wonderwoman to solitary?

[Pinsir]

The Silver Age is the only period where Wonder Woman had a great supporting cast with Wondergirl, Wondertot, Bird Boy and Fish Boy. Wondergirl is just a great character and her stories are some of the greatest WW issues ever. Bird Boy and Fish Boy are pretty funny too. Too bad Kanigher had to kill them all off because of 'continuity.'

FYI, Donna Troy and Cassandra Cain aren't actually WW characters and they (likely) never will be. They weren't introduced in a WW comic and they barely ever show up in WW comics

[Agent Z]

The Silver Age is the only period where Wonder Woman had a great supporting cast with Wondergirl, Wondertot, Bird Boy and Fish Boy. Wondergirl is just a great character and her stories are some of the greatest WW issues ever. Bird Boy and Fish Boy are pretty funny too. Too bad Kanigher had to kill them all off because of 'continuity.'

FYI, Donna Troy and Cassandra Cain aren't actually WW characters and they (likely) never will be. They weren't introduced in a WW comic and they barely ever show up in a WW comics

Assuming you actually meant Cassie Sandsmark, she was introduced in a Wonder Woman comic. And Donna's a WW character nonetheless.

[Pinsir]

Assuming you actually meant Cassie Sandsmark, she was introduced in a Wonder Woman comic. And Donna's a WW character nonetheless.

I did and I actually forgot she was introduced during John Byrne's run. Still though, she isn't really a Wonder Woman character. She hasn't appeared in a WW comic for like, 10 years or something. I'm pretty sure she has no appearances in any New 52 or Rebirth stories. Also, they're like sisters now which is kind of odd.

[Agent Z]

I did and I actually forgot she was introduced during John Byrne's run. Still though, she isn't really a Wonder Woman character. She hasn't appeared in a WW comic for like, 10 years or something. I'm pretty sure she has no appearances in any New 52 or Rebirth stories. Also, they're like sisters now which is kind of odd.

She doesn't suddenly stop being a WW character because she hasn't been used in a while. You might as well say Etta and Steve don't count as WW characters for the long periods of time they weren't used.

[Pinsir]

She doesn't suddenly stop being a WW character beIscause she hasn't been used in a while. You might as well say Etta and Steve don't count as WW characters for the long periods of time they weren't used.

Isn't she more of a Teen Titans character though? I'll concede that Cassie probably qualifies more as a WW character than Donna Troy (who is like 98% a TT character.). The thing with Etta and Steve is that even though there were periods where they weren't used, I still only associate them with the Wonder Woman brand. They don't appear as major characters in other series, which just isn't the case for Donna Troy or Cassie who primarily appear as members of the TT. It is in issues of TT where most of there major stories and character arcs occur.

[phonogram12]

this is the primary reason --



another reason, i think, is that perez and everyone after him (except for a brief period following infinite crisis) jettisoned the diana prince identity. Diana prince allows wonder woman to interact with a supporting cast in a more relatable way, without her having to be wonder woman 24/7.

#accurate

10 characters

[SiegePerilous02]

Isn't she more of a Teen Titans character though? I'll concede that Cassie probably qualifies more as a WW character than Donna Troy (who is like 98% a TT character.). The thing with Etta and Steve is that even though there were periods where they weren't used, I still only associate them with the Wonder Woman brand. They don't appear as major characters in other series, which just isn't the case for Donna Troy or Cassie who primarily appear as members of the TT. It is in issues of TT where most of there major stories and character arcs occur.

Yep. Steve and Etta at least showed up in the first issues and were deliberately created by a WW writer (the original no less). Cassie was created within the pages of WW, but Donna was an editorial oversight created in a different book. And she barely showed up in the main WW book, all her interactions with Diana and Hippolyta happened in TT. And then COIE happened and their link didn't even make that much sense anymore.

I WANT badly to consider Donna a WW character and to be treated as such, but her actual publication history is working against her. She's the biggest mess in DC comics.

I echo all the statements that have been made. I'd say the problem is really DC's fault because they are the one who allow the writers to come in a jettison the supporting cast in favor of their own creations. Imagine their reaction if a Superman writer tells them, "I'm not going to use Lois Lane or Jimmy Olsen. I'm going to create my own characters." How long would a Batman writer last if he decided to replace Alfred with Aunt Harriet or a completely new character? Wonder Woman has established supporting characters just like Superman and Batman, but DC keeps allowing writers to neglect them. I sat down and wrote out some parallels between the casts and it's really a shame that Diana's cast has been so neglected. They really should be on par with their Super and Bat contemporaries.

The Hero: Superman -> Batman -> Wonder Woman
The Civilian: Clark Kent -> Bruce Wayne -> Diana Prince
The Love Interest: Lois Lane -> Selina Kyle -> Steve Trevor
The Best Friend: Jimmy Olsen -> Dick Grayson -> Etta Candy
The Boss: Perry White -> Commissioner Gordon -> ???
The Parent: Ma & Pa Kent -> Alfred -> Hippolyta
The "Girls": Kara Zor-El (Supergirl) -> Barbara Gordon (Batgirl) -> Donna Troy (Wonder Girl)
The Youngster: Con-El Superboy -> Tim Drake -> Cassandra Sandsmark
The Child: Jonathan Kent -> Damian Wayne -> ??? (Lyta Trevor Pre-Crisis Earth 2)
The Rebel: Bizzaro? -> Jason Todd -> Artemis
The Arch Enemy: Lex Luthor -> The Joker -> The Cheetah
The Nemesis: Brainiac -> Ra's Al Ghul -> Ares
The Big Bad: General Zod -> Bane -> Circe

That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure others can come up with additional entries.

I'd put Phil Darnell here. Who isn't anything to write home about as a character, but I always wish they'd just let him stick around instead of using the equally generic stand ins for Steve's boss we've gotten since.

I might also swap Ares and Circe's positions (Circe always seemed more a personal enemy than Ares, though Cheetah edges her out for the arch), but otherwise this looks accurate.

[Tzigone]

I echo all the statements that have been made. I'd say the problem is really DC's fault because they are the one who allow the writers to come in a jettison the supporting cast in favor of their own creations. Imagine their reaction if a Superman writer tells them, "I'm not going to use Lois Lane or Jimmy Olsen. I'm going to create my own characters." How long would a Batman writer last if he decided to replace Alfred with Aunt Harriet or a completely new character? Wonder Woman has established supporting characters just like Superman and Batman, but DC keeps allowing writers to neglect them. I sat down and wrote out some parallels between the casts and it's really a shame that Diana's cast has been so neglected. They really should be on par with their Super and Bat contemporaries.

The Hero: Superman -> Batman -> Wonder Woman
The Civilian: Clark Kent -> Bruce Wayne -> Diana Prince
The Love Interest: Lois Lane -> Selina Kyle -> Steve Trevor
The Best Friend: Jimmy Olsen -> Dick Grayson -> Etta Candy
The Boss: Perry White -> Commissioner Gordon -> ???
The Parent: Ma & Pa Kent -> Alfred -> Hippolyta
The "Girls": Kara Zor-El (Supergirl) -> Barbara Gordon (Batgirl) -> Donna Troy (Wonder Girl)
The Youngster: Con-El Superboy -> Tim Drake -> Cassandra Sandsmark
The Child: Jonathan Kent -> Damian Wayne -> ??? (Lyta Trevor Pre-Crisis Earth 2)
The Rebel: Bizzaro? -> Jason Todd -> Artemis
The Arch Enemy: Lex Luthor -> The Joker -> The Cheetah
The Nemesis: Brainiac -> Ra's Al Ghul -> Ares
The Big Bad: General Zod -> Bane -> Circe

That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure others can come up with additional entries.

I do think some of these parallels are overrated (though I agree about the sadness of Diana's lack of consistent cast). Some are very new characters (like Jon Kent) and many others are 90s (which is a long time ago now, I admit). And, of course, so much of the time the elder Kents were dead (and were again in recent history) and Alfred as parent is likewise a post-COIE role. Kon, like Cassie, spent a long time as spin-off character, not having much to do with Superman.

I also kinda think the Batfam has gotten too big. Don't want to lose characters, since I like so many of them, but they aren't all being used well, and it's difficult to have all of them in a single story.

I WANT badly to consider Donna a WW character and to be treated as such, but her actual publication history is working against her. She's the biggest mess in DC comics.

I have to agree with her as a TT character. And I'm good with that. I think it's good for characters not to stay under the parent umbrella, because it lets them grow more. They, unfortunately, stay secondary to the main hero if they stay under umbrella, and I don't want that for them. Having their own books (even team books) and only occasionally visiting flagship-character is best for them, after they grow up. This doesn't apply to civilian characters, of course.

I guess if you prioritize the flagship character and think the younger being around often would benefit them, that's different. Much as I like WW and Superman (in certain eras), and even maybe kinda Batmann (definitely in older days), I like the second and third gen more (again, limited to specific eras), and don't like seeing them doomed to always-a-sidekick, never-grow-up status as has happened too often. I think the characters are better served by a supporting cast that won't outgrow the role in the course of their own character development.

I'm all for consistency, but though there are many I loved there's not a single WW status quo I'd want around for 10 years. Variety is the spice of life. Instead of of setting a status quo in stone they should do so with her supporting cast. Past members could drift in and out, imagine Inspector Ed Indelicato informs A.R.G.U.S. Cathy Perkins has been murdered and her boyfriend Michael Schorr is a suspect for instance? Or Ferdinand is the key to solving some mystery or something, but Steve and Etta should be mainstays. There shouldn't be more than 3 or 4 consecutive issues where they don't appear. We haven't seen Etta for 2 writer's runs, that's a problem.

I want Steve and Etta around as frequently as you do. They should be core supporting cast. I would like some old ones drifting in from time-to-time, but no more often than every 3rd or 4th arc - nostalgia can get old. I think I like minor/tertiary supporting cast that appear mainly for a sense of continuity, but don't have to have plot-relevance.

It may be nostalgia, but I like the Diana Prince ID. While I like the important characters knowing Diana's identity, I like some "normal life" stuff, too, which is a tough sell if every person she interacts with knows she's a superheroine princess. More and more lately, it seems like heroes don't have that normal life thing or interact with anyone outside the hero community. I miss Bruce being a real guy and seeing him instead of just occasionally seeing "Brucie."

[Agent Z]

I have to agree with her as a TT character. And I'm good with that. I think it's good for characters not to stay under the parent umbrella, because it lets them grow more. They, unfortunately, stay secondary to the main hero if they stay under umbrella, and I don't want that for them. Having their own books (even team books) and only occasionally visiting flagship-character is best for them, after they grow up. This doesn't apply to civilian characters, of course.

Except Donna hasn't been developing in the Titans books and the undermining of her connection to WW is largely responsible for that.

I want Steve and Etta around as frequently as you do. They should be core supporting cast. I would like some old ones drifting in from time-to-time, but no more often than every 3rd or 4th arc - nostalgia can get old.

I feel this should apply to Steve and Etta too.

It may be nostalgia, but I like the Diana Prince ID. While I like the important characters knowing Diana's identity, I like some "normal life" stuff, too, which is a tough sell if every person she interacts with knows she's a superheroine princess. More and more lately, it seems like heroes don't have that normal life thing or interact with anyone outside the hero community. I miss Bruce being a real guy and seeing him instead of just occasionally seeing "Brucie."

We've seen Diana have a normal life without Diana Prince since Perez. Yes, people knew she was a superheroine princess. They also knew she was a person once they actually befriended her. A secret identity isn't needed for a superhero to interact with normal people any more and isn't a guarantee that they will. After all, Green Lantern and Batman hardly talk to anyone who isn't a superhero these days (this was even pointed out in Morrison's current GL run). In fact, the two times that DC brought back Diana Prince, the life they gave Diana was anything but normal. She had no friends, no job that people could relate to and only the guy she was dating knew her secret identity.

The issue Diana has now if anything is how limited and small her supporting cast is. Even with Steve and Etta back only Steve gets any meaningful interaction with Diana and the Amazons have been AWOL for three years now. Her friendship with the Kapatelis was screwed up and she's yet to meet the Sandsmarks. Post crisis may have had issues maintaining a solid supporting cast but you could at least say Diana was interacting with people beyond a small handful and they were still allowed to come back from time to time.

[Koriand'r]

People keep saying the Diana Prince identity doesn't matter, but it really does. Without it everyone in Wonder Woman's life has to relate to her as a princess, a superhero, an ambassador, a celebrity or an enemy, which makes normal human interactions almost unattainable. She's usually a few tiers higher than anyone she's talking to, even with Steve and Etta. The DP id also adds tension and suspense, growing up with Perez and then reading the Bronze Age it's amazing how much time was spent on it and how it enhanced stories by giving them another layer. Though I realize I'm speaking to deaf ears and very few regular posters agree.

[kjn]

I like that Diana doesn't have a secret identity. It makes her different from the other heroes, and makes it possible for the comic to discuss the issues that can arise from being a very famous or powerful person (not that it manages to do that often, though Rucka's first run touched a bit on that).

She doesn't need to pretend to be anyone than the one she is in order to gain meaningful relations with other people: empathy and connecting with other people is literally one of her superpowers.

The trouble here isn't with Diana's character, but the way too many writers have approached her.

[Tzigone]

Except Donna hasn't been developing in the Titans books and the undermining of her connection to WW is largely responsible for that.

But I'd strongly argue she wasn't a WW character when she was developed. She was made in the Titans, and then was NTT character, when she got all her development, not a WW one.

We've seen Diana have a normal life without Diana Prince since Perez. Yes, people knew she was a superheroine princess. They also knew she was a person once they actually befriended her. A secret identity isn't needed for a superhero to interact with normal people any more and isn't a guarantee that they will. After all, Green Lantern and Batman hardly talk to anyone who isn't a superhero these days (this was even pointed out in Morrison's current GL run). In fact, the two times that DC brought back Diana Prince, the life they gave Diana was anything but normal. She had no friends, no job that people could relate to and only the guy she was dating knew her secret identity.

But they can't interact with her as a normal person. They treat her differently from day one because of that celebrity. Not just the people who are freinds with her, but the guy who sells or coffee and the cashier at the market and any landlord and so forth. And frankly, I think, as I said, that Bruce's civilian identity has often been dropped-without-being-dropped. We don't see him as a regular person anymore, and it's sad.

I like that Diana doesn't have a secret identity. It makes her different from the other heroes, and makes it possible for the comic to discuss the issues that can arise from being a very famous or powerful person (not that it manages to do that often, though Rucka's first run touched a bit on that).

Not really - there were tons without secret identities in that era. The secret identities were regarded as rather passe, it seems. Which is sad to me, because I think secret identities work well for the genre. I'd only have a couple heroes without them.

People keep saying the Diana Prince identity doesn't matter, but it really does. Without it everyone in Wonder Woman's life has to relate to her as a princess, a superhero, an ambassador, a celebrity or an enemy, which makes normal human interactions almost unattainable.

I'm with you. I don't think it's impossible to good stories with her not having a secret identity, but I think it would be better if she did. Unlike so many other heroes who went without them, she's never lived any sort of ordinary life in man's world. She has no idea what it's like to be (or rather be treated as) a "normal" person in this world.

[Agent Z]

But I'd strongly argue she wasn't a WW character when she was developed. She was made in the Titans, and then was NTT character, when she got all her development, not a WW one.

Being in the Titans isn’t helping her now. You can’t even say she’s moving beyond the WW umbrella when she’s barely used in the WW comic these days.

But they can't interact with her as a normal person.

Yes, they do. The Kapatelis, the Sandsmarks, Trevor Barnes, Ed Indelicato, Isabelle Mondini, Mike Schorr, Ferdinand, Artemis, Donna, etc. All of them treated Diana as a person not a celebrity. This idea that Diana could never have any down time just because she didn’t have a secret identity is based more on the prevalence of them in superhero comics than anything that actually existed in the books.

Not really - there were tons without secret identities in that era. The secret identities were regarded as rather passe, it seems.

Which era are you talking about? DC’s always had more secret heroes than public ones.

Which is sad to me, because I think secret identities work well for the genre. I'd only have a couple heroes without them.

Even then, why is it so important Diana have one?

[Koriand'r]

I like that Diana doesn't have a secret identity. It makes her different from the other heroes, and makes it possible for the comic to discuss the issues that can arise from being a very famous or powerful person (not that it manages to do that often, though Rucka's first run touched a bit on that)

.
We see that EVERYDAY on twitter and instagram with real celebrities and we've seen it in Wonder Woman's comic for almost 40 years.

She doesn't need to pretend to be anyone than the one she is in order to gain meaningful relations with other people: empathy and connecting with other people is literally one of her superpowers.

So is communicating with animals and we rarely see that either, when she does connect it doesn't seem like it's with an equal because she's the lecturing, wise, goddess/princess/superhero that's standing there literally wearing armor.

The trouble here isn't with Diana's character, but the way too many writers have approached her.

That's why it's time for a change, Diana Prince adds a layer of vulnerability and reliability that she just doesn't posses as Wonder Woman 24/7. It also shows she can be a regular woman in Man's World and face all the complications that go along with that and prosper and excel without relying on her superpowers.

[stargazer01]

IÂ’ve always felt it was strange that WonderwomanÂ’s cast is so small. To me everything about the character screams that she is a character that would prefer to be in a group. I think it stems from the need to make her a female Superman equivalent. Superman historically has been a loner, because it plays up his alien nature. But Diana is different, she made a choice to leave her home and be around people. She is a warrior, but what is a warrior, but what is a warrior, but a person who works well with in a group? (Army, troop etc). Especially when you consider the type of warrior she is. The amazons are warriors very much in the ancient Greek vane. The Greeks faught in phalanxes, a very team orientated style of fighting. Growing up in that type of society, Diana would probably have had team dynamics drilled into her at a very early age. Then their is the notion that Diana has an ideology she is trying to empart to the world. When you take all these elements, into consideration, one has to wonder why DianaÂ’s family of characters are so small. The WondergirlÂ’s are estranged and barely show up in the core book ,Artemis is more of rival then an friend half the time. And she doesnÂ’t have anything close to what would be considered a gender swapped version of herself.

I always felt Wonder Woman should be able to make more friends. I think she was quite friendly and approachable in the 70s TV show and her live action movie. She should know people everywhere she goes. People she could trust some. She seems a lot more serious and cold in comics and animation that I can remember. I mean, what close friends does she have? It seems only Superman or Etta maybe.