New readers are scared for no reason

[reni344]

I think it also important to point out people keep saying "look up reading lists" not every reading order is accurate or maintained some characters and teams don't even have them.

Jon Stewart does not have one Conner Hawke does not; Martian Manhunter does not have a maintained one. If you are not a well-known character to everyone, often character reading lists fall to the wayside. Also, most new readers come in through trades, and digital comics many comics are not available in either platform yet. And comic book stores are not available in every area where new readers can look through a back issue bin.

I know when I started reading comics I did not read any Batman, Superman or Wonder Woman because I did not know where to start eventually I started Batman when Grant Morrison started writing. I did not read a Superman run until Rebirth and then I went back. I started Wonder Woman with George Perez.

I think it can be intimidating for new readers when you see issue #1000 we as comic book fans know we don't have to read a thousand issues to know what happened with Superman but new readers don't necessarily know that...

There was no comic book store when I was growing up nobody sold American comics I had plenty of manga, and that is what I read. Manga is much easier to access you read some vols in order, and you get the whole story. American comics make things unnecessarily complicated between events and tie-ins, and constant renumberings. Of course, new readers would be confused.

[Daniel22]

There's these things called YouTube Recaps and Wikis that normies and noobs need to learn about.

This is exactly the kind of hostile and condescending gatekeeping I was talking about. When someone is looking to get into a hobby and is greeted with this and things like this, how likely are they to continue?

[Jim Kelly]

Whenever DC did continued stories in the 1960s, I was apt to miss at least one issue and never found those missing issues for another ten, twenty or thirty years. ZHA-VAM in ACTION 351 - 353, missed the last issue. Adult Legion in ADVENTURE 354 - 355, missed 354 (actually still haven't got that issue, only have reprints). Lois and Lana go to Kandor, LOIS LANE 76 and 78, only got 78. Batman, Batgirl, Catwoman in DETECTIVE 369 and BATMAN 397, only got 'TEC. Runaway Clark Kent in SUPERBOY 146 and 148, only got 148. Charley Vicker, Green Lantern, in GL 55 and 56, only got 56. Samuroids in THE FLASH 180 and 181, only got 180. Immortal Superman, ACTION 385 - 387, missed 386.

And others of the same type. I tried to avoid continued issues, but it was hard to know just from the cover which was going to be continued (and you were not allowed to look inside the comics at the drugstore, so you had to buy them based only on the cover). This is why I didn't get into Marvel (one of the reasons), because all ther comics were continued and I knew there was little luck I would find the other issues.

[Lee Stone]

Whenever DC did continued stories in the 1960s, I was apt to miss at least one issue and never found those missing issues for another ten, twenty or thirty years. ZHA-VAM in ACTION 351 - 353, missed the last issue. Adult Legion in ADVENTURE 354 - 355, missed 354 (actually still haven't got that issue, only have reprints). Lois and Lana go to Kandor, LOIS LANE 76 and 78, only got 78. Batman, Batgirl, Catwoman in DETECTIVE 369 and BATMAN 397, only got 'TEC. Runaway Clark Kent in SUPERBOY 146 and 148, only got 148. Charley Vicker, Green Lantern, in GL 55 and 56, only got 56. Samuroids in THE FLASH 180 and 181, only got 180. Immortal Superman, ACTION 385 - 387, missed 386.

And others of the same type. I tried to avoid continued issues, but it was hard to know just from the cover which was going to be continued (and you were not allowed to look inside the comics at the drugstore, so you had to buy them based only on the cover). This is why I didn't get into Marvel (one of the reasons), because all ther comics were continued and I knew there was little luck I would find the other issues.

I had a similar experience.

When I first started buying my own comics, I started with Marvel. My brother was already a big DC reader and I wanted something that could be mine. And it would be a waste of money to buy the same comics as him, as we would read each others' books.

The first Marvel comic I bought in 1982 was Doctor Strange #53, guest-starring the Fantastic Four.
In the Bullpen Bulletin was a blurb about the Contest of the Champions mini-series and it displayed the cover to the first issue and the cover to Fantastic Four #243, which happened to guest-star Doctor Strange!
And there you have it... Those three comics were the start of my reading Marvel

I, too, would miss issues. Especially in the early days before I found out what day the comics came out.

The comics I had a hard time finding were Avengers and X-Men. I eventually found a pharmacy that sold Avengers, but X-Men was a bit spotty until New Mutants came out then it seemed to appear more often.
And I only saw Rom during a stay in another town. I bought the three issues the store had (which included the Namor guest appearance) and never saw it again.

Micronauts: The New Voyages impressed me greatly when it came out, but after the fifth issue, I never could find it again.

Moon Knight: The Fist of Khonshu, likewise, had gotten my interest but it disappeared after the third issue. It being cancelled shortly after went pretty much unmentioned, and for us readers that bought comics in the real world just didn't notice because it wasn't unheard of to miss an issue. It wouldn't be for another month or two that we'd know it was cancelled, unless an editor mentioned it in a letters page or editorial somewhere.
Or if it didn't appear in the monthly 'Checklist'.
But even that couldn't be definitive because Marvel had several bi-monthly comics that wouldn't appear on the checklist every other month.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

When I was a kid growing up in the 1970s, you really could just jump into any DC comic and understand everything you needed to know in each story because DC Comics were more episodic and didn't do a ton of referencing to other stories. Even Legion of Super-Heroes, which is now the poster child for "It's too hard to get into" was easy to get into. It was fun to discover who the characters were, what their real names were, and what their powers were because that's all you needed to know. Their past histories weren't really part of current stories. Any history that was brought up was intriguing to me and made me want to learn more rather than being off-putting.

However, I will say that I did stay away from Marvels until the late 70s because the stories were not as kid-friendly as the DC's in terms of story tone or the look of the art, they were always continued, and they often referenced past events or events from a different title. Also, all the heroes always looked angry, while Superman looked more friendly and comforting.

Anyway, once I was old enough to appreciate the Marvels, I really dove in and wanted to learn all about them. The history and the deep world became very intriguing to me, and the fact that past stories MATTERED became very appealing instead of being off-putting.

But, I recognize that today's comics are very different in that you have two complicated universes to follow, and neither really even TRIES to be new-reader friendly. There has to be a balance between telling a continuing narrative and adhering to the old chestnut that every comic is potentially someone's first because asking people to do Internet research in order to understand a comic book doesn't seem to be a good sales strategy. It seems more like a giant F-U to potential new fans.

[Lee Stone]

When I was a kid growing up in the 1970s, you really could just jump into any DC comic and understand everything you needed to know in each story because DC Comics were more episodic and didn't do a ton of referencing to other stories. Even Legion of Super-Heroes, which is now the poster child for "It's too hard to get into" was easy to get into. It was fun to discover who the characters were, what their real names were, and what their powers were because that's all you needed to know. Their past histories weren't really part of current stories. Any history that was brought up was intriguing to me and made me want to learn more rather than being off-putting.

However, I will say that I did stay away from Marvels until the late 70s because the stories were not as kid-friendly as the DC's in terms of story tone or the look of the art, they were always continued, and they often referenced past events or events from a different title. Also, all the heroes always looked angry, while Superman looked more friendly and comforting.

Anyway, once I was old enough to appreciate the Marvels, I really dove in and wanted to learn all about them. The history and the deep world became very intriguing to me, and the fact that past stories MATTERED became very appealing instead of being off-putting.

But, I recognize that today's comics are very different in that you have two complicated universes to follow, and neither really even TRIES to be new-reader friendly. There has to be a balance between telling a continuing narrative and adhering to the old chestnut that every comic is potentially someone's first because asking people to do Internet research in order to understand a comic book doesn't seem to be a good sales strategy. It seems more like a giant F-U to potential new fans.

I remember reading an editorial somewhere... It may have been Mark Gruenwald...
Where they mentioned the things every comic needed to have to be new reader friendly.

I remember one in particular was to call each character by name at least once in the comic. It didn't really matter when or where, as long as it happened somewhere in the comic.

I never really thought much of this, and took it for granted... until I picked up a 2000's Avengers comic that had a character I had never seen before. And they never once called them by name! It irritated me sooo much. I scoured the comic over and over. I was sure I had missed it.

[seusilva]

I started reading Daredevil because all the praise of the Mark Waid run - I didn't knew anything about the character and the years and years of background and enjoyed the reading. Then I started Bendis run, Miller and finished with Brubacker. A bit of chaos but was an amazing ride!
To new readers I would recommend to start reading when a new writer assume - there are lots of recaps and at the same time new ideas introduced. Batman for example had a great "reboot" with King, you can understand what's going on even if you don't know 80 years of bat-tales and the same goes for Snyder.

[9th.]

There's these things called YouTube Recaps and Wikis that normies and noobs need to learn about.

Personally Comicvine helped me out A LOT. My first graphic novel was a Teen Titans tie-in to Infinite Crisis, there was way too much going on.

[chamber-music]

I'm a reader that has often dipped in and out of books all my life. Very few comic readers I know have ever read every single story featuring characters they like.

I pick up titles for a arc or single issue.

You don't need to read thousands of comics going back decades unless you are a hardcore completist or something.

I just stated reading the latest Hawkman book having not followed the character much before and having minimal knowledge about him. Doesn't stop me enjoying the book.

Trades exist and you can always look up some info on the internet if you really want to know a reference, story arc or character you don't know. There are videos on Youtube breaking down everything from characters origins to major story arcs.

In some regards comics have never been more accessible.

The things that I think are most confusing for new readers is alternate reality, reboots and time travel stuff. Things that can make stories overly convoluted and confusing to newer readers.

[Buried Alien]

This is exactly the kind of hostile and condescending gatekeeping I was talking about. When someone is looking to get into a hobby and is greeted with this and things like this, how likely are they to continue?

In the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make (thanks, Sir Paul McCartney). Pursuing a hobby is voluntary, not a requirement, but people will only get back as much as they're willing to invest into it. My lifelong passion for comics didn't just fall into my lap in a neatly organized package one day, but because I chose to take the time to invest into learning more about it. I wasn't obliged to, but I wanted to. Hobbies, by definition, are for those who *want* to partake in them.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Buried Alien]

Do you not like giving new properties a try? (I don't mean that in a challenging way, I'm genuinely curious).

Let me list some of my lifelong passions, and approximately or precisely where they began:

1970s Japanese tokustasu series: I started both KAMEN RIDER and JINZO NINGEN KIKAIDA as a wee lad in the early 1970s at random episodes halfway through their runs. Enjoyed them my whole life, but did not really know that much about their backstories until more than thirty or even forty years later, well into my adulthood.

GODZILLA: First movie was 1962's KING KONG VS. GODZILLA, which I didn't even start watching until shortly before the final battle scene that comprises the final twenty minutes of the movie. Did not watch the original, 1954 GODZILLA film until some years later, and to this day, haven't watched every single GODZILLA movie ever released.

STAR WARS: first movie was THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK. Didn't watch A NEW HOPE until after I had seen EMPIRE and RETURN OF THE JEDI and read my share of Marvel's 1970s and 1980s comic book adaptations.

BATMAN: first saw some random episode in Season 2 or 3 of the 1966 Adam West series during its 1970s reruns. Didn't pick up a single BATMAN comic book until the late 1980s when the Joker killed Jason Todd.

THE FLASH: first saw him in cartoons during the 1970s, and first comic was THE FLASH # 316 (Barry Allen's Silver/Bronze Age series).

SUPERMAN: reruns of George Reeves' TV series during the 1970s (again, from some random midseries episode, not the first episode) and Christopher Reeve's SUPERMAN II (that's right...again, I saw the second film before seeing the first). Did not pick up any actual SUPERMAN comics (aside from appearances of the character in DC COMICS PRESENTS, JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA, COIE, etc.) until the DEATH OF SUPERMAN storyline in 1992.

JAMES BOND: first movie was MOONRAKER. Saw most of Roger Moore's movies before seeing any of Sean Connery's.

LOS ANGELES LAKERS: became a lifelong fan during Magic Johnson's second season.

THE BEATLES: was a Monkees fan first. Slowly began to learn more about the band and their music and finally became a committed Beatlemaniac in 1989, nearly twenty years after the band broke up and nearly ten years after John Lennon died.

& other rock legends: Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, the Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, etc., etc., etc....all my faves for the past thirty years or so, which meant years or even decades after some of these performers had made their last records.

ROM: SPACEKNIGHT: started with issue # 10 of the series.

SHAZAM: some random episode of the 1970s live action TV series after John Davey had replaced Jackson Bostwick as Captain Marvel (in the second season of the series).

ROBOTECH: started with Episode # 28 of the 85 episode series.

AIRWOLF: started with Episode # 7 of the first season.

MOBILE SUIT GUNDAM: got into it when MOBILE SUIT GUNDAM ZZ (the third series) was in its first broadcast in Japan, eight years after the original series premiered.

I could go on and on, but you get the picture by now.

And what do all these things have in common other than me getting aboard late? I had to go find out more about them on my own, but I'll be damned if that wasn't a very big part of the pleasure.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Robanker]

Let me list some of my lifelong passions, and approximately or precisely where they began:

1970s Japanese tokustasu series: I started both KAMEN RIDER and JINZO NINGEN KIKAIDA as a wee lad in the early 1970s at random episodes halfway through their runs. Enjoyed them my whole life, but did not really know that much about their backstories until more than thirty or even forty years later, well into my adulthood.

GODZILLA: First movie was 1962's KING KONG VS. GODZILLA, which I didn't even start watching until shortly before the final battle scene that comprises the final twenty minutes of the movie. Did not watch the original, 1954 GODZILLA film until some years later, and to this day, haven't watched every single GODZILLA movie ever released.

STAR WARS: first movie was THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK. Didn't watch A NEW HOPE until after I had seen EMPIRE and RETURN OF THE JEDI and read my share of Marvel's 1970s and 1980s comic book adaptations.

BATMAN: first saw some random episode in Season 2 or 3 of the 1966 Adam West series during its 1970s reruns. Didn't pick up a single BATMAN comic book until the late 1980s when the Joker killed Jason Todd.

THE FLASH: first saw him in cartoons during the 1970s, and first comic was THE FLASH # 316 (Barry Allen's Silver/Bronze Age series).

SUPERMAN: reruns of George Reeves' TV series during the 1970s (again, from some random midseries episode, not the first episode) and Christopher Reeve's SUPERMAN II (that's right...again, I saw the second film before seeing the first). Did not pick up any actual SUPERMAN comics (aside from appearances of the character in DC COMICS PRESENTS, JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA, COIE, etc.) until the DEATH OF SUPERMAN storyline in 1992.

JAMES BOND: first movie was MOONRAKER. Saw most of Roger Moore's movies before seeing any of Sean Connery's.

LOS ANGELES LAKERS: became a lifelong fan during Magic Johnson's second season.

THE BEATLES: was a Monkees fan first. Slowly began to learn more about the band and their music and finally became a committed Beatlemaniac in 1989, nearly twenty years after the band broke up and nearly ten years after John Lennon died.

& other rock legends: Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, the Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, etc., etc., etc....all my faves for the past thirty years or so, which meant years or even decades after some of these performers had made their last records.

ROM: SPACEKNIGHT: started with issue # 10 of the series.

SHAZAM: some random episode of the 1970s live action TV series after John Davey had replaced Jackson Bostwick as Captain Marvel (in the second season of the series).

ROBOTECH: started with Episode # 28 of the 85 episode series.

AIRWOLF: started with Episode # 7 of the first season.

MOBILE SUIT GUNDAM: got into it when MOBILE SUIT GUNDAM ZZ (the third series) was in its first broadcast in Japan, eight years after the original series premiered.

I could go on and on, but you get the picture by now.

And what do all these things have in common other than me getting aboard late? I had to go find out more about them on my own, but I'll be damned if that wasn't a very big part of the pleasure.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I'm the same kind of person. I love the research! But we're the type who this sort of hobby is built for. New readers who are like us will need no help, but that's not who we're talking about. If we don't want to expand the reader base, that's fine, but for cape comics to live, we need them to reach more readers so just expecting them to thrive on the thrill of discovery is not going to work.

[Lee Stone]

I'm a reader that has often dipped in and out of books all my life. Very few comic readers I know have ever read every single story featuring characters they like.

I pick up titles for a arc or single issue.

You don't need to read thousands of comics going back decades unless you are a hardcore completist or something.

I just stated reading the latest Hawkman book having not followed the character much before and having minimal knowledge about him. Doesn't stop me enjoying the book.

Trades exist and you can always look up some info on the internet if you really want to know a reference, story arc or character you don't know. There are videos on Youtube breaking down everything from characters origins to major story arcs.

In some regards comics have never been more accessible.

The things that I think are most confusing for new readers is alternate reality, reboots and time travel stuff. Things that can make stories overly convoluted and confusing to newer readers.

I agree about the reboots and alternate realities where you have multiple versions of the same character running around. And time travel if it results in duplicate characters.

It wasn't so bad when it was just Earth-2, and even other Earths Pre-Crisis, because the characters were more different and easier to mentally seperate.
Back during those days, there were only a few characters that could cause confusion: Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman and Hawkman.
All the rest were different enough from their Earth-1 counterparts.

Batman's main difference was the bat symbol on his chest (no oval) and (usually) shorter ears on his cowl.
Superman's was the 'S' on his suit being more 'snake'-like and fluid, and the gray temples. And I think the trim of his boots were different, too.
Wonder Woman had an eagle on her top, as opposed to Earth-1's stylized 'W', and she wore sandles while the Earth-1 version wore boots.
Hawkman wore both a bird mask complete with a beak and a cowl with no bird motif, while the Earth-1 wore a mask similar to the bird mask but without the beal.
While these were minor differences, they were consistent. So you could always tell which one was which.

And Green Arrow had originally been overlooked but by the time they brought him back, the Earth-1 version had been remodeled with the beard and flashier costume.

These days, it's harder to differentiate one version from another. Especially when the main versions are changing costumes so much.

And it also doesn't help if a character or team has two first issues in a year. If a new reader comes in with number 6 and decides to get the first five, they run the risk of buying the wrong run.

I think one of the best things DC has done in a while is how they're collecting the Wolfman Titans run in one set of TPBs, instead of one set for the 1980 series and one for the 1984 series.

[shadow6743]

I will give a perfect example of how confusing things can be for a new reader getting into comics. I wanted to read more Captain Marvel comics in order to understand the character better for the upcoming movie. I found out the character had volumes out and I was going to purchase volume one. Well, the problem I found when doing this is that Captain Marvel has 4 volume ones. FOUR. I have been reading comics for awhile now and I am confused by this. Also, when you click on the different volumes to find out which issues are includes each one of them is re-numbered 1-5, 0-4, 1-5, again. I was able to get the order after getting a reading list, but I don't think a new reader would realize the need for this.

[byrd156]

I will give a perfect example of how confusing things can be for a new reader getting into comics. I wanted to read more Captain Marvel comics in order to understand the character better for the upcoming movie. I found out the character had volumes out and I was going to purchase volume one. Well, the problem I found when doing this is that Captain Marvel has 4 volume ones. FOUR. I have been reading comics for awhile now and I am confused by this. Also, when you click on the different volumes to find out which issues are includes each one of them is re-numbered 1-5, 0-4, 1-5, again. I was able to get the order after getting a reading list, but I don't think a new reader would realize the need for this.

Just ask for help then.