New readers are scared for no reason

[ed2962]

The problem isn't starting with Batman #496, it's having to also buy Detective Comics, and Gotham Knights, and Batman Blood Fist, and Robin, just to get one story. The last chapter was #496 but now it's been renumbered as a new #1, and what order are you supposed to read all this stuff in anyway? It's more work than it's worth for some people. I know folks say well you can look up the info online, but that's part of the problem in my opinion. If someone is trying to turn me on to say The Rolling Stones, they'll just give me Exile on Main St. They don't say, "Well, you need to read this bio on Mich Jagger first in order to understand these songs."

[ed2962]

Because issue 12,483 will be 7th of a 12 part 3 book crossover within a bigger 40 part arc.

Ha! beat me to it

[Lee Stone]

Guess they could just reboot every three to six months to accommodate the new readers.

If new readers come into a series with #1, they're fine.
New readers come into a series with #2, they're okay.
Then new readers coming into a series with #3 is kinda iffy.
And new readers get turned off at #4 because there's been three issues.
And at #5, new readers are no longer interested because it's too much work.

So... reboot and relaunch after the third issue so new readers can enjoy the comics.
And we can just read the origin of Batman every three months so new readers will be caught up.

Seriously, though...
There's a reason why some of the best (and more critically acclaimed) series have had huge followings.

Claremont's X-Men
Levitz's Legion
Wolfman's Titans
Gaiman's Sandman
100 Bullets
Elfquest
Cerebus
Walking Dead

And it's because they were allowed to grow into mini-epics.
Yes, it took a while to get into one of them at the midway point, but it could be so much more rewarding to get caught up in their world.

I remember my first issue of Legion was #316, which featured mainly the Substitute Legion. I wouldn't meet the full cast for several issues. But, looking back, those first issues I read were very influential on which characters I connected with.
My favorite members would eventually be Wildfire, Dawnstar, Timber Wolf, Shadow Lass, Mon'El and Star Boy.
And it appears that all of them were featured prominently in issues #316-321.

If I had chose to only read the Legion from the beginning, I would very likely have had totally different favorites.

I came into X-Men with #159, the Dracula issue with art by Sienkiewicz.
I was there for the New Mutants forming and Rogue joining.
And the team from that time (Cyclops, Storm, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Wolverine, Kitty Pryde and Rogue) became the definitive X-Men for me. Because that's where I came in.
Sienkiewicz's art in that issue also led me to get re-interested in New Mutants after I had stopped picking it up.

My brother was buying New Teen Titans before I started reading comics, so I was already familiar with them, but my first issue that I ever bought was Tales of the Teen Titans #47. I came in after the Judas Contract, so I was reading a lot of the aftermath of that story and pretty much everything I knew about it came from piecing the clues together by way of the characters' dialogue. At least until I could actually read it many years later. However, it was covered pretty well in the Who's Who series and the Mayfair Games Titans Sourcebook to give me enough info.

My first issue of Sandman was #47, the first Vertigo issue. It was part 7 of a storyline, but I managed to get up to speed by the end of the issue. And I was also reading Death: The High Cost of Living at the time, which served more as an introductory series, even though it was basically just Death.

While not everyone is like me, there's still something to be said for developing reading skills, deductive reasoning and adaptability.
And why tear down a strong series just to dumb it down when with a bit of patience you may have a much more enjoyable experience with the version that created the interest you might've had in the first place?

[Lee Stone]

You have 3 types of people.

1. The person who can just jump into the middle of something freely and never look back.

2. The person who can jump into the middle of something but will go back.

3. A person who has to start from the beginning.

For the people in the #2 and #3 category the length can be a turn-off.

I think the majority or at least half of the people who are like #2 would be fine with the information provided by sites on the internet, and also be okay with maybe not having the opportunity to read everything that needs to be read as long as they get some tyoe of information.

But I think the people in #3 would absolutely need something more than a in-depth summary (i.e they need the actual books).

And there is no convincing people who are like #3, the only thing you can do is give them a reading order list and tell them where they can purchase each comic issue or most will not even attempt to engage.

So, I broke all of this down to say, I don't know if there is much that can be done.

That's a good assessment.
The main problem is that catering to either #1 or #3 can be a turn off for their opposite.

#1 may want stories with a history and some depth. A complex world that they can just step into and learn as they go.
Starting at the beginning can be a turn off, because there's not enough substance or things don't feel organic. It can be done, but would require a double-sized first issue or at least a trade paperback's worth of info dump to get a world complex enough for their tastes right from the start.

#3 wants to be there at the beginning.
Starting in the middle can be a turn off, because they feel lost without a foundation. The best thing for this situation would be spin-off mini-series that could give them a #1 issue to start with.

[kjn]

I don't think there is anyone who says that long arcs are necessarily bad. Rather, that the entire US comics system is geared towards the regular readers: those who keep track of upcoming issues, visit comic book stores regularly, and buy several titles a month.

It is not so well suited for casual readers or for new readers. Now, good long arcs can be wonderful for turning casual readers into regular readers, but they are not as good for turning non-readers into new readers. (Good writers and editors can handle this by including sensible points for jumping on and off and clear guides on earlier books to get.) This is further complicated by the way that comic book stores have a reputation for being newbie- and kid-unfriendly.

I think there is a reason why the trade format has become so popular beside it being available in more places: it provides a clear hint that the contained stories provide a reading experience suitable as an introduction.

Now, there is nothing wrong with serialised fiction; it has been a staple for several hundred years. But I think the key to making serialised fiction work is to make it regular. Suddenly switching over from monthly to weekly installments with several additional titles (like with The Witching Hour for Justice League Dark) is arguably not the way to do it.

[Colossus1980]

How many times do you think someone came across a random tv show and liked it so much they kept coming back to it every week and now it's their faves how of all tie?

You have to tell the new reader that TV has strict continuity while comics are very fluid, almost non-existent. What is established in a story arc by a writer can be ignored completely with a new writer. Lots of things get retconned and basically comics are like Elseworlds one-shots since everything can get changed on a whim without explanation.

[9th.]

They aren't scared; they're LAZY. They don't realize that figuring out this stuff is a big part of the fun. To be fair, though, it's harder now than it was even twenty years ago. Back then, new readers only had to keep track of Pre-COIE and Post-COIE. Now, it's Pre-COIE, Post-COIE, Pre-INFINITE CRISIS, Post-INFINITE CRISIS, Pre-FLASHPOINT, NEW 52, REBIRTH, etc.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

The thing is people don't know they love it yet. Trying to follow a comic at issue #346 can be jarring. Kurenai explained it beautifully, there are just different kinds of readers. A lot of people just have an interest, it's not love yet. When they get through reading Batman that's when when they'll get into the details. "Who is this guy, why are there 3 Robin's, WTH is Infinite Crisis?". All that will come later, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss those people as lazy.

[Jim Kelly]

Don't a lot of people discover the stories in collected book form? I mean, it's much more common to browse the books in general interest bookstore chains, where you're not there to look for comics in particular, but if your interest is piqued then you will find something you like. And those books tend to be self-contained.

I've never used Comixology or the new DC Universe streaming service, but it would probably be a good idea to archive the digitial comics so you have an index where you can find a continuity and go forward/back to read an arc, even when it continues between titles. And digitally, issue numbers don't really matter. If they make a list, that list can be numbered 1, 2, 3 . . ., regardless of actual issue and volume numbers. It's so much easier to cross-reference stuff using computing technology, where sources can be listed in multiple ways and found with simply a click.

[DavidRA]

My first comics were numbered in their thousands. It didn't bother me as an 8 year old, and it doesn't bother me now. The argument that you won't read something deep into a run is ridiculous. Edit - they weren't DC comics though.

[Lightning Rider]

I say the solution lies in between, start at the beginning of an arc. That should be good enough to know most of what's going on. Part of it is "laziness" but also the stigma (or reality) of a screwed up continuity. It's hard to want to put in work when you don't love it yet, as 9th said.

Or just start with a classic trade/GN.

[Jim Kelly]

My first comics were numbered in their thousands. It didn't bother me as an 8 year old, and it doesn't bother me now. The argument that you won't read something deep into a run is ridiculous. Edit - they weren't DC comics though.

The first DCs I read had mostly high numbers. I think the lowest numbered comic was PLASTIC MAN No. 2 (1966), which my sister and I bought together with our allowance and we both hated it--I still hate it. New comics were not a good risk and one tended to buy a proven commodity. Which is why, in the 1950s, publishers avoided putting the number 1 on a first issue cover because readers were less likely to spend money on something that was new. And publishers would play games with numbers, so sometimes a new title would have a very high number.

Dell put out a lot of comics in the FOUR COLOR series, so there was no issue number per se--but the series number was very high, into the thousands. But only adult collectors knew about that kind of stuff. Your average kid just bought a comic because it had a good cover and a character they liked. And if it turned out that the comic was in the middle of a story, you just had to deal with it. Because your chances of finding the exact back issues that matched up with that comic were very unlikely. And how would you find it? As far as I know, the only comic book that helped readers find other issues was BLACKHAWK, where the letter page was used for listing and trading wanted back issues between readers.

[Bor]

I completely understand why people would be hesistant to try an issue 345.
While many of us did that we did it a time where entertainment was very different. Comics were cheaper and there were not that many options compared to now. I had saturday cartoons as a kid and that was great but it was still limited compared to now. Now I can go to netflix/other streaming service and get complete stories for less a month then it would cost to buy a handfull of comics.
The idea that people here are being lazy is flawed. Its not just a questions of being lazy or unwilling to not start from the beginning but a question of having so many more options now that are both easier and cheaper, not to mention available faster and in more places.

[Buried Alien]

My preoccupation with all things FLASH began here:



It was fairly far into the game.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Lee]

Comics have become a relatively expensive form of entertainment. It shouldn't be necessary for a reader to have to consult the Internet in order to understand the comic they've just bought.

There are several elements at play that make a lot of DC series intimidating for new readers:

1. Almost all stories are multi-part stories, single issue stories are now a rarity.
2. Those multi-part stories are often continuity heavy themselves.
3. At least once a year, there's a good chance that whichever series you're following will suddenly be affected by a story that happened in a different series.
4. The constant renumbering and title changing makes it difficult to navigate the back catalogue. If you start with Naruto volume 34, you know that there are 33 previous books and where each one fits into the story. You know that volume 35 is the next one. Good luck on trying to figure out the reading order of Teen Titans aka New Teen Titans aka New Titans aka Titans aka Teen Titans.
5. In any other form of entertainment, a reboot is a clean slate. DC Comics never commits to a reboot, they'll throw out 30% and try to keep the other 70% (or vice-versa). Then they'll try to bring back half of the stuff they just threw out. Every single time it makes their continuity and character backstories more convoluted, more contradictory and their back catalogue more difficult to navigate.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

Yeah, I'll never understand the whole DC or Marvel are too convoluted to be accessible. The long and complex history of these shared universes are a large part of what makes them so much fun. It's especially unforgiveable now as you can find Wikipedia articles on all of these.

I started reading comics regularly in the early '90s after picking up copies of The Flash #66, a team up issue by Mark Waid with Aquaman, and one of the reprints of Showcase #4. I had read comics before that and liked DC's character since I was a very kid and I saw one of the animated series that was out there at the tiime and, of course, Christopher Reeve's Superman but it was these two comics that really started my addiction. The idea of there being this legacy of the Flash and that the Flash - who, incidentally, was an easy draw for me thanks to his fantastic costume, visually exciting powers and, in the case of Wally at least, a really vivid personality - not only interacts with all these other superheroes but had an established relationship with them were a huge part in making me want to explore the DCU.

From there it was a matter of reading tons of comics (yay, bargain bins and my local newstand!), collecting a series of DC trading cards and reading odd bits of Who's Who. My appreciation for comics as an artform is far great now than it was then but, man, nothing beats that sense of excitement of exploring that incredible fictional universe with these fantastic characters - from the best known to the most obscure.

You know, it's funny, writing that, I just realized again how much the New 52 was misguided. Almost everything I loved about DC Comics when I got into them were erased with the New 52. No more legacy, no more shared history, no more established relationships, no more sleek costumes. The attempt to "clear up" the DCU only took away everything that was great about it: something that DC is still trying to fix all these years later.