Superman#4 Discussion and Spoilers

[Rakzo]

After Sons of Tomorrow (the story he got rejected) when did Jon team up with the Teen Titans?

Same story.

Rejected initially, later teamed-up with them, later rejected him again (which in context doesn't make sense now that I think about it, then again, Super Sons of Tomorrow was a pretty stupid story). However, the one who Jon wanted the most acceptance was Damian since he didn't even know the Titans so this reaction is also pretty illogical and later appearances didn't show any change of him about this.

So now the argument is that writers cannot portray Jon as having internal feelings he does not speak on immediately? If it wasn't in a Tomasi thought-bubble at some point during his time with the character, then that's it for the creative process.

I don't get the hoops you're jumping through to hamstring how the character can be written.

As long as is logical sure.

[Sacred Knight]

What is illogical about a reveal of "hey, you know that traumatic thing that happened to me some weeks/months ago? I may have seemed okay about it all at time, and maybe I was, but as time has gone on its kinda been bothering me more."

I mean, that's just a basic human process. How can that be illogical? Emotions are complex.

[Kuwagaton]

I would love to hear a reason why Jon would think "there's something wrong with me!" after he was rejected by the frikking Teen Titans (something that he took fairly well, accepted and later teamed-up with them with no problem during a crossover), especially after all the things that happened during Tomasi's run where he gained even more confidence.

It's really hard to tell when that is supposed to be. The Rebirth suit was apparently phased out, but Superman wore it here with just some different boots.

[Rakzo]

What is illogical about a reveal of "hey, you know that traumatic thing that happened to me some weeks/months ago? I said I was alright about it at the time, and maybe I was, but as time has gone on its kinda been bothering me more."

This is just the basic human process. I don't see how that is illogical.

"Traumatic"? Like, being rejected by a team while your best friend, who is leader of that team by the way, tells you to not worry about it is "traumatic"?

And that suddenly makes you start question your entire existence?

That simple event compared to all the impossible stuff that happened after that?

Again, like, really?

It's really hard to tell when that is supposed to be. The Rebirth suit was apparently phased out, but Superman wore it here with just some different boots.

Yeah, but I'm talking about the events during Man of Steel.

[Sacred Knight]

Traumatic as in he knows that there's a version of him in some other future out there in which he grows up to be a killer. And its hard for his young mind to reconcile. That is the aspect Bendis hammered home as the major source of the trauma. You keep ignoring that and just mentioning the rejection without the context.

[Rakzo]

Yes, because the thing that makes him cry is that "The Teen Titans rejected meeeee! Because there's something wrong with meeeee!".

Both Clark and Lois actually calmed him by telling him the rational: "Is not you, is another person from another reality".

[Sacred Knight]

Because they were wary of him because of the version of him that killed millions of people. That is the catalyst and the true context of the entire situation.

At which point he cries means little.

[Rakzo]

Because they were wary of him because of the version of him that killed millions of people. THAT is the catalyst.

At which point he cries means little.

Jon even starts joking in the middle of that conversation by saying that an evil version of him with a goatee is kinda funny.

He only starts crying after that, with the whole TT sh*t.

[Sacred Knight]

So what? The parent interjects, tells a little joke that makes his son chuckle, and he continues with what's bothering him and he sheds some tears. It doesn't change the reality of the larger context at play into why he feels there's something wrong with him. Its not just being picked last or not at all in gym class. Its based on that common childhood sense of rejection, but amped to an increased level, and with an increased scope of potential solution.

Its all just a major reach to discredit something that is just such a complete non-issue.

[Rakzo]

So what? The parent interjects, tells a little joke that makes his son chuckle, and he continues with what's bothering him.

Its all just a major reach to discredit something that is just such a complete non-issue.

It is when you're willing to leave your parents who, oh yeah, you have done everything to stay close to during the previous run.

[Sacred Knight]

Willing to leave for what's essentially a vacation. He has no intention of being gone long, he makes specific note of demanding to be back in time for school. This is a trip, a camp, nothing more. It may not end up that way of course, but that's his intent. And there's nothing to suggest that Jon is that tied to the hip of Mom and Dad where he needs them with him every second of every day. He was quite independent of his parents when the opportunity presented. Even to the point of sneaking out to do it.

[Rakzo]

Willing to leave for what's essentially a vacation. He has no intention of being gone long, he makes specific note of demanding to be back in time for school. This is a trip, a camp, nothing more. And there's nothing to suggest that Jon is that tied to the hip of Mom and Dad.

Like, the entirety of Tomasi's run?

[Sacred Knight]

When was he ever scared of doing something by himself? He went out without them all the time. Him loving his family and wanting to be with them in general is not the same thing as being so dependent as to not being able to leave their side for a moment. He really struck you as a child whom would have been a mess had he gone to summer camp? Because that's all this is supposed to be, with the twist of being a Super-version of it.

[Rakzo]

When was he ever scared of being alone? He went out without them all the time. Him loving his family and wanting to be with them is not the same thing as being so dependent as to not being able to leave their side for a moment.

Leaving them for no reason when you did your best to stay together makes no sense. At all.

[Sacred Knight]

There is a reason, its a trip for knowledge. Key word: trip. Nothing to ever to suggest he'd wilt at the very idea of a vacation away from home. Like everything else you're reading far too much into things desperate to find a discrepancy.