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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet-Spider View Post
    Exactly my thoughts. Peter David used to be a good writer but people change and he changed for the worse. Maybe he just needs some rest and take a break from writing. I am still shocked at just how bad this issue and the whole run was.
    I don't want to sound ageist, but a lot of great writers simply lose their touch when they're older, and their best work afterwards usually comes in smaller doses.

  2. #47
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naked Bat View Post
    I'm in the same mood than Pav and ZeroBG82. I'm still shocked by this ending. But it's definitely a ballsy one and it makes me wonder what Ben will do next.
    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    it’s superhero comics

    if hal jordan can be redeemed, so can ben
    Honestly, I can't really be of the same hope based mentality on this one as you guys. See difference between this kind of thing happening to Ben Reilly and characters like Spider-Man, Batman, Captain America, Iron Man,Wolverine, Hal Jordan, etc is that while those characters are basically A-listers and are guaranteed to have appearances beyond such an ending whether it be in a team book or a relauched solo to continue/fix the character, Ben doesn't have that luxury. At this point, all we know is that Ben is in Spider-Geddon but beyond that nothing. When Superior happened, it was angering but given Peter's A-lister status, there was no way such a thing was going to last. With Ben, this kind of thing could stick and even if they do one day reverse this, until then he's basically at the mercy of when a writer wants to do a Spider-Man story with Ben Reilly in it. This is why it is a terrible idea to leave the character off in what is basically him at his lowest because unless Spider-Geddon is gonna somehow reverse it, this is pretty much it for Ben Reilly at the moment.

  3. #48
    Radioactive! Spiderfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    Honestly, I can't really be of the same hope based mentality on this one as you guys. See difference between this kind of thing happening to Ben Reilly and characters like Spider-Man, Batman, Captain America, Iron Man,Wolverine, Hal Jordan, etc is that while those characters are basically A-listers and are guaranteed to have appearances beyond such an ending whether it be in a team book or a relauched solo to continue/fix the character, Ben doesn't have that luxury. At this point, all we know is that Ben is in Spider-Geddon but beyond that nothing. When Superior happened, it was angering but given Peter's A-lister status, there was no way such a thing was going to last. With Ben, this kind of thing could stick and even if they do one day reverse this, until then he's basically at the mercy of when a writer wants to do a Spider-Man story with Ben Reilly in it. This is why it is a terrible idea to leave the character off in what is basically him at his lowest because unless Spider-Geddon is gonna somehow reverse it, this is pretty much it for Ben Reilly at the moment.
    ^This 100%. Peter Parker was never in danger of being killed off for good, perhaps temporarily sidelined or displaced as the plot demands it, but his A-list status protects him from really being killed off. Unlike say Ben and Kaine, who could be killed off (instead of just retired until someone with more talent comes along) rather easily and with little remorse because they are not appealing enough to today's market (i.e. not diverse enough) and even worse being they are direct copies of the original Spider himself, which gives writers like PAD and Slott even less pause to do irreversible damage to the characters in lieu of outright killing them. Those of us who are worried have good reason to be, and given the Spidergeddon writer's (I forget his name) quote about Ben we have plenty of cause to believe Ben is going away and not coming back for a long time.
    The city I once knew as home is teetering on the edge of radioactive oblivion

  4. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pav View Post
    Well, I can't say it was a pleasing ending, or that I liked it. But I do find it intriguing. And I agree with much of what Zero said, including Ben being "my Spider-Man." Yet I don't feel the doom and gloom that others feel, and here's why:

    Ben proved he was a hero, time and again. Even at the very end, he wanted to choose staying dead. When given the choice, he chose being good - being a hero - even if it meant his life. His last choice as a mortal was keeping an innocent safe by putting himself in danger. Ben was a hero.

    And now he's not -- but it's not his fault. Ben's soul has been shattered, and it's not his fault: his choices are no longer his own, because who he is has been fundamentally changed. It's almost as if his "morality switch" has been clicked off, through no fault of his own.

    So I'm going to continue following Ben's story, even if it means watching him as a villain. Who knows? Maybe it'll be fun to watch him indulge in being the Evil Twin for a while.

    I'll still be hoping for a true chance at redemption for Ben, and I believe the window has been left open for it to happen, eventually, if Marvel so chooses.

    *Sigh*

    Don't get me wrong: I'd love if Ben were the hero and Kaine still the deranged villain. But what can you do?

    You can hope that eventually the loose ends will be picked up and Ben will get another chance to be a hero.

    -Pav, who is curious about Ben's role in Spidergeddon and his potential rivalry with Ock...
    Marvel has misled me far too many times for me to have faith that they will ever do right by Ben Reilly. This was the last straw for me.

  5. #50
    Mighty Member oldschool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    I don't want to sound ageist, but a lot of great writers simply lose their touch when they're older, and their best work afterwards usually comes in smaller doses.
    You may be right; PAD was one of my very favorite writers throughout the '80's and '90's. His runs on PP:SSM, Hulk and X-Factor still rank among my all-time favorite runs. But I cannot recall any consistently good work from him since his run on Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man (and perhaps the earliest issues of the relaunched X-Factor series from early '10's). He could just be burnt out on this stuff.

  6. #51
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    Man I feel bad about saying it may be about losing your touch

    This doesn't apply to every ageing writer. Gerry Conway really bounced back in recent years with Carnage, Spiral and Renew Your Vows etc.

    PAD's often had a run of bad luck with Spider-titles...constant editorial intervention, the need to insert his characters into events, and books facing cancellation. I would not blame him for just tiring of it at this point.

  7. #52
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    The tin-foil hat says this probably has something to do with the upcoming event. Basically in that Ben is going to be murderous here and Scarlet Spider had to do something about that.

    But instead of actually exploring the idea of killing and what good can come from it, if any sort of gray area exists, Ben's just evil. Clear cut so that we can later on have that dumbass "we have to be better than them" argument all over again despite that not even being a valid argument the first time.

    There will probably be a moral divide and it will be spider on spider action and not in the fun way.
    One side is probably going to be led by Peter because he's somehow the chosen one, and the reasonable one being Doc Ock will lead the bad guys. All over again.
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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet Spider-Man View Post
    Marvel has misled me far too many times for me to have faith that they will ever do right by Ben Reilly. This was the last straw for me.
    I personally don't feel mislead because while the narrative within the book lead you to believe Ben might have a shot at redemption anyone who has paid attention to Marvel's long held views on the character should've known there would be no satisfactory ending coming.


    Things will never change for the character as long as Brevoort and Quesada are with the Company.

  9. #54
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    Well, this whole series now feels like it was just treading water the whole time. At the beginning Ben was evil because - Jackal and stuff. Now he's evil because - Mephisto and stuff.

    Toys back in the box?

    When did the writers at Marvel become such bitter, cynical old men?
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  10. #55
    Radioactive! Spiderfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    Well, this whole series now feels like it was just treading water the whole time. At the beginning Ben was evil because - Jackal and stuff. Now he's evil because - Mephisto and stuff.

    Toys back in the box?

    When did the writers at Marvel become such bitter, cynical old men?
    Like I said Marvel has a hate-boner for Ben Reilly, he is not allowed to live a happy normal life...ever. Not allowed to be happy, or sane or loved. It wouldn't surprise me if there were actually tangible gold-plated ten-commandments-esque rules hanging in the Marvel Offices clearly stating things like; "Ben Reilly shall not live a prosperous and fulfilling life ever" in-between the "no Peter/MJ marriage" and "no May Parker" rules.
    Last edited by Spiderfang; 10-11-2018 at 11:46 AM.
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  11. #56
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Yah its really too bad they seem so dedicated to what characters are not rather than how they should be. Its always easier to be negative than to be positive.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfang View Post
    in-between the "no Peter/MJ marriage" and "no May Parker" rules.
    Those mainline rules haven't stopped the marriage or May Parker still being things to this day though.

    In May's case the rule is more "don't let her be happy either"

  13. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    Well, this whole series now feels like it was just treading water the whole time. At the beginning Ben was evil because - Jackal and stuff. Now he's evil because - Mephisto and stuff.

    Toys back in the box?

    When did the writers at Marvel become such bitter, cynical old men?

    Next steps: Have Ben be the Jackal again in Spider-Geddon and then finally put him and his fans out of their misery by killing him off for real this time.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet-Spider View Post
    Next steps: Have Ben be the Jackal again in Spider-Geddon and then finally put him and his fans out of their misery by killing him off for real this time.
    This is reminding me of the whole mess with Harley Quinn in Scott Snyder's New 52 era Batman crossover "Death of the Family" where it was mandated she had to be turned heel for that event and turned good again afterwards. Don't see the latter happening to Ben though.

  15. #60
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    They really ruined Ben Reilly's character. I just hope this can have a reason in Spider-Geddon, so at least it can be "useful".

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