Ben Reilly: The Scarlet Spider #25. SPOILER WARNING.

[Kurolegacy]

He was supposed to be the "perfect clone." If he were so perfect a clone, he wouldn't have turned to dust (or ashes) upon death like all the other clones did. A lot of people suspected for a long time that some fake-out had occurred, besides Marvel blatantly defying its own internal logic just to "prove" that Ben was the clone all along.

Hell you want a major plot hole in that one, Kaine was without a doubt an imperfect clone due to his constant clone degeneration issues and yet even he has never turned to dust upon dying and he’s died at least 3 times now.

[Huntsman Spider]

Hell you want a major plot hole in that one, Kaine was without a doubt an imperfect clone due to his constant clone degeneration issues and yet even he has never turned to dust upon dying and he’s died at least 3 times now.

The first time, the Jackal had a fit of sentiment and stuffed him into a regeneration chamber. The second time, he left behind an actual corpse that was later revived (whether by the Other or by the Jackal, it was somewhat ambiguous) and further mutated into the "Tarantula" in Spider-Island. The third time, he was literally eaten by mutant werewolves and explicitly revived by the Other. The fourth time, the Other spat him out of its corpse. Maybe there was a fifth, but I'm blanking on that right now.

[Orbus]

He was supposed to be the "perfect clone." If he were so perfect a clone, he wouldn't have turned to dust (or ashes) upon death like all the other clones did. A lot of people suspected for a long time that some fake-out had occurred, besides Marvel blatantly defying its own internal logic just to "prove" that Ben was the clone all along.

The "perfect clone" thing never quite made sense. It seemed to be designed to make Ben seem more important and later Peter when he was thought to be a clone integral to Jackal's master plan.

It seemed to be contradicted by the idea that Ben had researched into clone degeneration and was convinced it would eventually catch up with him. Likewise when Peter was portrayed as the clone he too was concerned about degeneration and at one point it seemed to be happening to him when he was dying in hospital which led to him getting his powers back.

Of course dying doesn't automatically mean degenerating. The random clone found in the smoke stack didn't degenerate and on the flip side degenerating did not necessarily mean death as Spidercide was basically a puddle of goo when Scrier brought him back to life.

[boots]

The "perfect clone" thing never quite made sense. It seemed to be designed to make Ben seem more important and later Peter when he was thought to be a clone integral to Jackal's master plan.

It seemed to be contradicted by the idea that Ben had researched into clone degeneration and was convinced it would eventually catch up with him. Likewise when Peter was portrayed as the clone he too was concerned about degeneration and at one point it seemed to be happening to him when he was dying in hospital which led to him getting his powers back.

Of course dying doesn't automatically mean degenerating. The random clone found in the smoke stack didn't degenerate and on the flip side degenerating did not necessarily mean death as Spidercide was basically a puddle of goo when Scrier brought him back to life.

yeah the internal logic there wasn’t great. clones died of degeneration, they didn’t degenerate after death

also, i think the perfect clone thing stacks up (a perfect clone would really just be a twin), you might be genetically stable but also paranoid

[HypnoHustler]

The first time, the Jackal had a fit of sentiment and stuffed him into a regeneration chamber. The second time, he left behind an actual corpse that was later revived (whether by the Other or by the Jackal, it was somewhat ambiguous) and further mutated into the "Tarantula" in Spider-Island. The third time, he was literally eaten by mutant werewolves and explicitly revived by the Other. The fourth time, the Other spat him out of its corpse. Maybe there was a fifth, but I'm blanking on that right now.

There was a fifth time. Death killed him in BR: Scarlet Spider #6 and Ben revived him in #7.

He’s definitely died too many times and I bet he gets number 6 during Spidergeddon.

[Scott Taylor]

Hell you want a major plot hole in that one, Kaine was without a doubt an imperfect clone due to his constant clone degeneration issues and yet even he has never turned to dust upon dying and he’s died at least 3 times now.

Not to mention that in their own internal logic now, Ben has died 27 times. Plus he just died yet again and did not turn to dust!

[HypnoHustler]

Not to mention that in their own internal logic now, Ben has died 27 times. Plus he just died yet again and did not turn to dust!

My No Prize solution would be that all the repeated and extreme physical damage he received in PP:SM#75 (brutal beatings, bombs, falling off a skyscraper on to a car) broke something in his clone metabolism and triggered a premature breakdown of his cells. The reason why he didn't degenerate in SS#25 (still can't get over how bad that issue was) is because he's now a New U clone and they're genetically more stable than Miles' original batch. It's not a great explanation, but it's the best I can do.

[Kurolegacy]

Not to mention that in their own internal logic now, Ben has died 27 times. Plus he just died yet again and did not turn to dust!

I get the feeling the logic they’d try to use is that Ben was either cured of the degradation by the frequency at the end of Cline Conspiracy leaving behind only the scars that had already formed or Lady Death cured him.

[David Walton]

Ben degenerating in PPTSSM 75 wasn't internally consistent, but was probably seen as a necessary evil to 100% confirm Peter as the original. That's the only reason it happened IMO. It does leave a huge opening for them to reveal that the clone who Norman killed wasn't the real Ben.

[David Walton]

My No Prize solution would be that all the repeated and extreme physical damage he received in PP:SM#75 (brutal beatings, bombs, falling off a skyscraper on to a car) broke something in his clone metabolism and triggered a premature breakdown of his cells. The reason why he didn't degenerate in SS#25 (still can't get over how bad that issue was) is because he's now a New U clone and they're genetically more stable than Miles' original batch. It's not a great explanation, but it's the best I can do.

Or maybe...he was never Ben? Bwa-ha-ha! Let the conspiracies begin! And where, you ask, is the real Ben? "He's at home, washing his tights!"

Okay, Batman '89 reference aside...he's still out there, somewhere. Definitely.

[classicgmer]

There was a fifth time. Death killed him in BR: Scarlet Spider #6 and Ben revived him in #7.

He’s definitely died too many times and I bet he gets number 6 during Spidergeddon.

If Kaine dies again during Spider Geddon i'm gonna believe there's some type of running joke amongst the members of the Spider office or that there's some weird editorial edict that dictates he must die every couple of years only to be ressurected immediately.

[HypnoHustler]

Ben degenerating in PPTSSM 75 wasn't internally consistent, but was probably seen as a necessary evil to 100% confirm Peter as the original. That's the only reason it happened IMO. It does leave a huge opening for them to reveal that the clone who Norman killed wasn't the real Ben.

It was confirmed to be editorial mandate from either Ralph Macchio or Bob Harras (I forget which) in the ‘Life of Reilly’ series. The writers softly pushed back for the reasons mentioned here, but it was mandated so they had to write it in.

[Huntsman Spider]

There was a fifth time. Death killed him in BR: Scarlet Spider #6 and Ben revived him in #7.

He’s definitely died too many times and I bet he gets number 6 during Spidergeddon.

Thanks for refreshing my memory.

My No Prize solution would be that all the repeated and extreme physical damage he received in PP:SM#75 (brutal beatings, bombs, falling off a skyscraper on to a car) broke something in his clone metabolism and triggered a premature breakdown of his cells. The reason why he didn't degenerate in SS#25 (still can't get over how bad that issue was) is because he's now a New U clone and they're genetically more stable than Miles' original batch. It's not a great explanation, but it's the best I can do.

If Marvel can get away with not-so-great explanations for how and why characters come back from "the dead," so can we.

[Spiderfang]

I'm seriously liking all of these "true Ben" theories, Marvel I hope you're listening/reading this (and for added measure make NuBen Spidercide)

[Huntsman Spider]

I'm seriously liking all of these "true Ben" theories, Marvel I hope you're listening/reading this (and for added measure make NuBen Spidercide)

Glad we could help.

spoilers:

So far, it seems Gage over in Spider-Geddon #3 is completely disregarding the end of this issue/series, insofar as how Ben's acting, unless it's just that --- an act, and he's gonna go nuts all over again to justify Otto/Superior Spider-Man dispatching him.

end of spoilers