Madelyne Pryor: Red Queen Appreciation 2018

[Indigo Al]

Scott walked out and traveled several thousand miles because of Jean. And I very much doubt he was thinking about his marriage one way or another. Indeed, by his own later admission he was obsessed with getting to Jean to the exclusion of all other thoughts.

Ugh. There was that one panel in the Inferno issue where the X-Men confront Sinister in Jean's psyche, and Scott implies that Sinister's influence made him abandon Maddie. Nice try to pass the buck there, Slim.

[JudicatorPrime]

I might be the only one that found the pilot jumpers and bomber jacket sexier than the Goblin underboob!

Another possible path for Madelyne: time with the Starjammers? She was always one of those stock Claremont "flying to the stars was always my dream" characters, and as wrong as it sounds, I could even see her and Corsair falling for each other!!!!!!!

Maddie and Corsair? No, please no. I never liked the whole soap opera element of X-men where one person dates the entire family and then hops over to the next group and dates all of them, too. There are billions of men on the Earth. Several quadrillion more humanoid species in the entire Marvel Universe. If Maddie turns out to be pansexual, well, the numbers are truly endless. Surely we can find a better love interest for Maddie than Scott's and Alex's dad.

[Huntsman Spider]

Maddie and Corsair? No, please no. I never liked the whole soap opera element of X-men where one person dates the entire family and then hops over to the next group and dates all of them, too. There are billions of men on the Earth. Several quadrillion more humanoid species in the entire Marvel Universe. If Maddie turns out to be pansexual, well, the numbers are truly endless. Surely we can find a better love interest for Maddie than Scott's and Alex's dad.

One of the Scarlet Spiders, maybe? Mostly because I'd think, as messed up as both of them are, they can relate to Maddie's struggle for personhood and self-determination against those that would treat them as lesser for being clones. And Ben has also run afoul of Mister Sinister (as per X-Men/Spider-Man #3 of 4, set in the 90s when Ben was acting as Spider-Man, and Wolverines #5-6, which featured a small platoon of Ben Reilly clones serving Sinister), so there's that. Speaking of, maybe there should be a team-up between Maddie and Miss Sinister, given that her arc in Laura Kinney's first solo series painted her, bad as she was, as another victim of Mister Sinister's manipulations, merely trying not to be absorbed and overwritten by his mind and DNA, even if she had to steal someone else's body to overcome such a horrible fate. Hmm, come to think of it, maybe they should all get into a "Mister Sinister messed with us and we're gonna kick his @$$" pile. Throw Nate Grey and Nate Summers in there, too, and have some resolution between Maddie and them as well, given that Summers is Maddie's son and Grey is . . . sort of Maddie's son.

[davetvs]

Red hair with black streaks and vice versa have been done to death out here on the West Coast. Wouldn't mind seeing Maddie with predominantly red hair highlighted by both gold and platinum highlights/streaks. Hmmm...I may try drawing that look later.

Please, no more hair streaks.

[JudicatorPrime]

Please, no more hair streaks.

Too late. The coloring has begun!!!

[Havok83]

I can envision something like that for her

[Izanami]

I can envision something like that for her

I approve.

[Anodyne]

Inferno is definitely in my top 5 X-Men storylines, will always love her for that alone.

I'll always hate Inferno for what it did to Maddie. I kept hoping her son's peril would jolt her back to her senses.

I don't blame Scott for what happened to Madelyne as this entire thing originated due to execs wanting to bring back Jean, even if it contradicted the original story. Not sure if all of you are familiar with how Claremont was not hapoy when they mentioned that decision. However, I was not a big fan of Madelyne looking like Jean for obvious reasons but Claremont really wanted his happy ending of Scott and Jean going into retirement and starting a family. Something that a lot of us wish would actually happen for some characters. We are able to see parts of this with Rachel Summers. Considering how they wanted Madelyne to die or be put in the fridge so that Scott can get back with Jean, it is quite obvious who is at fault. As great as Inferno was it sole purpose was to depict Madelyne as a vile villian who would go as far as murdering children. That way when she died, there would be no sympathy for her. Thankfully Claremont was able to show the tragedy of the character and what was done to her both from a character and editorial point of view. Sadly as much as I want Madelyne to return to the X-Men as a hero it will be nigh impossible as it will come into conflict with Jean and we are already seeing some unlikely things going on with Rachel. Similar to the Hank Pym mess, no matter how many times the story has concluded, the punishments, or what consequences were dealt afterwards it all becomes moot. It always going to go back to Clone, Betrayal, and Revenge. Until someone can break Madelyne free of that there may be a chance.

Isn't all fiction literally the responsibility of those who work on its creation? Writers, editors, artists? But I too would like to see Madelyne free to be her own person. There was a bit of plot-lint in X-Man (#30 IIRC) that hinted at this: "I am not just Jean Grey's clone," Maddie tells herself. "I'm Madelyne Pryor, the one and only."

I would like to see a story where Maddie gets the redemption that I feel that she deserves. And she gets some form of apology from the X-Men.

Yes. It's time the X-Men realized that regarding a clone as less than a real person is just as bigoted as normal humans' hatred of mutants.

Well Maddie fans are in two camps:

A) Those for whom the boob window (or trap door?) and loin cloth left a very strong impression at an early age. While I was sorry to see it go for nostalgia reasons, for the character ditching the boob window was the right call for her.

B) Those who love Maddie for being more badass than Jean could ever hope to be (The first Genosha arc is hands down my favorite x-men story).

I'm with those that that say Maddie is long overdue for a correction to all that happened to her. I don't appreciate her as a straight villain and never will.

Count me as a member of a third camp: One who admires the Madelyne who woke up in UNX #215 screaming "Where's my baby?!" Who attacked two Marauders when she could have stayed hidden as they rushed past. The one who told Neal Conan, "Where does it say...that you have to be a mutant to believe in what the X-Men stand for, and be willing to fight for it by their side?" Who, despite not knowing why her husband had left her, could still wish him well; and who willingly gave her own life to stop the Adversary.

Oh no. For better or worse, her connection to Jean is core to her character. I dont think doing a drastic change that fundmanetally changes her appearnce would be a good idea. I am all for her getting a physical change to help define her in her own right. Maybe a black streak in her hair or maybe have her lose an arm and then get a metallic one (which physically makes her have more in common with her son, Cable). I think she needs to be kept with red hair and green eyes though

I agree on the red hair, but I think golden or topaz eyes would look striking; IMHO that could make Maddie just enough different from Jean to let people perceive her as an individual in her own right.

I wouldn't have a problem with Maddie being back and having a sexier wardrobe than Jean without going overblown with it would, but also then no big change like with Psylocke, she doesn't need that and just haver Maddie as more her old self before all the baby sacrificing crap that got tacked on later...

I thought the sexy wardrobe was an example of demonic influence.

I might be the only one that found the pilot jumpers and bomber jacket sexier than the Goblin underboob!

I'll let the guys decide what 's sexy; to me the jumpsuit represents a time when Madelyne was happy.

Another possible path for Madelyne: time with the Starjammers? She was always one of those stock Claremont "flying to the stars was always my dream" characters, and as wrong as it sounds, I could even see her and Corsair falling for each other!!!!!!!

What if Corsair came to regard Madelyne as the daughter he never had--one who shares his love of flying?

Ugh. There was that one panel in the Inferno issue where the X-Men confront Sinister in Jean's psyche, and Scott implies that Sinister's influence made him abandon Maddie. Nice try to pass the buck there, Slim.

IIRC that was Warren. Scott did a very brief guilt-wallow about Madelyne until Jean assured him that it wasn't his fault. And the rest of X-Factor showed little concern for Maddie's fate when they cheered Scott's defeat of Sinister.

One of the Scarlet Spiders, maybe? Mostly because I'd think, as messed up as both of them are, they can relate to Maddie's struggle for personhood and self-determination against those that would treat them as lesser for being clones.

Now there's an interesting thought. I'd say friendship, not necessarily romance; right now I think Madelyne needs a good friend more than she needs a lover.

row Nate Grey and Nate Summers in there, too, and have some resolution between Maddie and them as well, given that Summers is Maddie's son and Grey is . . . sort of Maddie's son.

The three seemed to form the beginning of a bond at the end of the Blood Brothers story arc. Too bad the very next issue of X-Man showed Maddie smiling evilly, standing over Ness with a large knife. Could that be when Evil Jean supplanted Madelyne, between X-Man #47 and #48?

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Perhaps the wardrobe was part of the demon influence though it's possible now that if she did come back that they'd keep it to a degree just to set her apart from Jean...

[Huntsman Spider]

[QUOTE=Anodyne;3681383]I'll always hate Inferno for what it did to Maddie. I kept hoping her son's peril would jolt her back to her senses.

Isn't all fiction literally the responsibility of those who work on its creation? Writers, editors, artists? But I too would like to see Madelyne free to be her own person. There was a bit of plot-lint in X-Man (#30 IIRC) that hinted at this: "I am not just Jean Grey's clone," Maddie tells herself. "I'm Madelyne Pryor, the one and only."

Yes. It's time the X-Men realized that regarding a clone as less than a real person is just as bigoted as normal humans' hatred of mutants.

Count me as a member of a third camp: One who admires the Madelyne who woke up in UNX #215 screaming "Where's my baby?!" Who attacked two Marauders when she could have stayed hidden as they rushed past. The one who told Neal Conan, "Where does it say...that you have to be a mutant to believe in what the X-Men stand for, and be willing to fight for it by their side?" Who, despite not knowing why her husband had left her, could still wish him well; and who willingly gave her own life to stop the Adversary.


I agree on the red hair, but I think golden or topaz eyes would look striking; IMHO that could make give Maddie just enough different from Jean to let people perceive her as an individual in her own right.

I wouldn't have a problem with Maddie being back and having a sexier wardrobe than Jean without going overblown with it would, but also then no big change like with Psylocke, she doesn't need that and just haver Maddie as more her old self before all the baby sacrificing crap that got tacked on later...[/QUOTE
I thought the sexy wardrobe was an example of demonic influence.

I'll let the guys decide what 's sexy; to me the jumpsuit represents a time when Madelyne was happy.

What if Corsair came to regard Madelyne as the daughter he never had--one who shares his love of flying?

IIRC that was Warren. Scott did a very brief guilt-wallow about Madelyne until Jean assured him that it wasn't his fault. And the rest of X-Factor showed little concern for Maddie's fate when they cheered Scott's defeat of Sinister.

Now there's an interesting thought. I'd say friendship, not necessarily romance; right now I think Madelyne needs a good friend more than she needs a lover.

The three seemed to form the beginning of a bond at the end of the Blood Brothers story arc. Too bad the very next issue of X-Man showed Maddie smiling evilly, standing over Ness with a large knife. Could that be when Evil Jean supplanted Madelyne, between X-Man #47 and #48?

I'd say a strong friendship between the Scarlet Spider(s) and Madelyne would work just fine, too. Being a big fan of the Scarlet Spider(s) over in Spider-Man, and looking upon the Clone Saga a lot more favorably than some or many fans do, I can definitely agree that the X-Men were in the wrong for how they treated Madelyne, although given how some of them treated Laura Kinney, it's not like they entirely learned their lesson. Come to think of it, a Laura/Madelyne friendship/alliance would be great to see as well, with Laura (and Gabby) showing her that it's perfectly possible for her to have a life that doesn't revolve around being an imperfect (and disposable) copy of someone else.

[Deer God]

I would like her to join Red actually. They could make it work and get all the baggage out of the way so she can move forward as the hero she was shown to be.

She could get the Jean drama worked out. Storm and her could reconnect as friends. The Laura/Gabby clone parts could be an interesting bonding moment. Nightcrawler and Maddie bonding over soul talk. Plus Namor and her would be a fun interaction.

[Izanami]

Isn't all fiction literally the responsibility of those who work on its creation? Writers, editors, artists? But I too would like to see Madelyne free to be her own person. There was a bit of plot-lint in X-Man (#30 IIRC) that hinted at this: "I am not just Jean Grey's clone," Maddie tells herself. "I'm Madelyne Pryor, the one and only."

Understanding what happened behind the scenes and the position Claremont and other writers were put in they didn't have much of a say. They had a job to perform and you can tell Claremont tried to make sure they woudn't stuff her into a fridge or completely derail her character. Some of Madelyne's quotes reflect that situation with the Jean Grey ressurection ordeal or her utter abandonement as a character. The strength in the writting is the major reason why Madelyne's arc or character is in discussion today. Why instead of utter anger for wanting to sacrifice Nathan we mourn for her situation. What more does she have to lose after everything including her life was stripped by everyone both in the fictional and real world. It's the reason why Jean mentions Madelyne so sadly and wishes to payback those that hurt her. It's why after three decades Madelyne had somewhat of a happy ending during Secret Wars and we the readers cheered for that victory. They had a job to do yes but it didn't mean they didn't have their disagrements or disapproval for what they were doing to her.

[JudicatorPrime]

We'd definitely rewrite Maddie's story, if we could. Of that I'm certain.

[Anodyne]

I still keep on thinking that Madelyne was not a real person... a body does not make a person. She was given fake memories and a fake personality based on Jean´s experience but what was her real life experience? months old? like a toddler at best..

In that case, why not treat Madelyne's outburst at Scott in X-Factor #1-- "Don't bother coming back!"-- as a toddler's tantrum, not an adult's ultimatum? Jean, who did not lack life experiences, was allowed to shrug off her own tantrum in that same issue as a "red-headed temper"; doesn't Maddie, in simple justice, deserve at least as much leeway?

If Madelyne had only a few months of real-life experience when she met Scott, how could she be expected to understand the pitfalls of dating a man whose claim to love her was largely based on what she looked like?

Shame on Sinister for depriving Maddie of the opportunity to grow up one day at a time, with loving parental guidance. IMHO that, not the fact that she was a clone, was the real cause of her problems.

I'm copying this post to Madelyne's own thread.

[Huntsman Spider]

In that case, why not treat Madelyne's outburst at Scott in X-Factor #1-- "Don't bother coming back!"-- as a toddler's tantrum, not an adult's ultimatum. Jean, who did not lack life experiences, was allowed to shrug off her own tantrum in that same issue as a "red-headed temper"; doesn't Maddie, in simple justice, deserve at least as much leeway?

If Madelyne had only a few months of real-life experience when she met Scott, how could she be expected to understood the pitfalls of dating a man whose claim to love her was largely based on what she looked like?

Shame on Sinister for depriving Maddie of the opportunity to grow up one day at a time, with loving parental guidance. IMHO that, not the fact that she was a clone, was the real cause of her problems.

I'm copying this post to Madelyne's own thread.

Pretty much this. I'd say the same is true of any clone who was treated mostly as a disposable weapon against or replacement for their "source material."