Madelyne Pryor: Red Queen Appreciation 2018

[Indigo Al]

In that case, why not treat Madelyne's outburst at Scott in X-Factor #1-- "Don't bother coming back!"-- as a toddler's tantrum, not an adult's ultimatum? Jean, who did not lack life experiences, was allowed to shrug off her own tantrum in that same issue as a "red-headed temper"; doesn't Maddie, in simple justice, deserve at least as much leeway?

If Madelyne had only a few months of real-life experience when she met Scott, how could she be expected to understand the pitfalls of dating a man whose claim to love her was largely based on what she looked like?

Shame on Sinister for depriving Maddie of the opportunity to grow up one day at a time, with loving parental guidance. IMHO that, not the fact that she was a clone, was the real cause of her problems.

I'm copying this post to Madelyne's own thread.

This is clearly a flaw caused by the clone retcon. Claremont wrote her as a normal human woman with life experience because she WAS one. Once editorial thought she needed to be a clone, now we have to bend over backwards and forwards to figure how she came to her emotional maturity and adult personality. Creepy.

But hey, Blade Runner and its sequel deal very well with these types of ideas.

[JudicatorPrime]

They need to retcon the clone retcon.

[Drey]

I'm okay with Madelyne's status as a clone. No matter the body, she has her own personality and desires. If they really wanted to, they could go do something similar to Mutant X and say that Maddie developed another personality that slowly corrupted her, which resulted in the Goblin Queen. Meanwhile, her true self was suppressed for years until recently when, for example, her true persona began to resurface after her recent resurrection. Now she has to fight for control of her mind and come to terms with everything she did as the Goblin Queen once she integrates her into her persona.

So it's very similar to Mutant X Maddie and even Jean and her story dealing with other personas. Yes, it's not very original, but it puts her on the path for those that want redemption for her.

[JudicatorPrime]

I say this jokingly, but...

We could go the Phoenix Force route, albeit sub in the Goblin Force and/or Le Bete Noir and establish that the entity housed the real Maddie in a demon-seed cocoon and left her in the unexplored depths of Veryovkina, one of the deepest known caves on the planet. A major battle between the X-Men and an amped up Moses Magnum somehow frees her from the cocoon. Demon-seed Maddie, or (Underworld Maddie, if you prefer) emerges from the cave to discover the death of Scott and all of the horrors committed by the GF/LBN in her name/guise. On a happier note, "I was halfway to Veryovkina," becomes the new catchphrase for X-team members to describe any nigh-impossible task, or its unfortunate consequences.

[JudicatorPrime]

It looks like the dupe posts continue. Ugh.

[Havok83]

I'm okay with Madelyne's status as a clone. No matter the body, she has her own personality and desires. If they really wanted to, they could go do something similar to Mutant X and say that Maddie developed another personality that slowly corrupted her, which resulted in the Goblin Queen. Meanwhile, her true self was suppressed for years until recently when, for example, her true persona began to resurface after her recent resurrection. Now she has to fight for control of her mind and come to terms with everything she did as the Goblin Queen once she integrates her into her persona.

So it's very similar to Mutant X Maddie and even Jean and her story dealing with other personas. Yes, it's not very original, but it puts her on the path for those that want redemption for her.

but that didnt happen. We saw her transformation. Claremont did her justice as best he could by taking the time over several issues to showcase her descent. I dont think a retcon saying it was happening slowly before that serves any purpose. The biggest knock against Maddie is she is raerly used. She is never around long enough to get any actual character development. There is no need to try and retcon her past; it happened. She isnt a character that needs to have this stuff whitewashed and forgotten. Its all about moving forward from now. The 3 biggest people she hurt were Scott, Jean and Nathan and honestly, I dont see any of them holding grudges against her especially since they werent 100% innocent (well Nathan was) and viewed her as sympathetic after the fact. Nobody else has a reason to hate and turn her down.

[Koriand'r]

I say this jokingly, but...

We could go the Phoenix Force route, albeit sub in the Goblin Force and/or Le Bete Noir and establish that the entity housed the real Maddie in a demon-seed cocoon and left her in the unexplored depths of Veryovkina, one of the deepest known caves on the planet. A major battle between the X-Men and an amped up Moses Magnum somehow frees her from the cocoon. Demon-seed Maddie, or (Underworld Maddie, if you prefer) emerges from the cave to discover the death of Scott and all of the horrors committed by the GF/LBN in her name/guise. On a happier note, "I was halfway to Veryovkina," becomes the new catchphrase for X-team members to describe any nigh-impossible task, or its unfortunate consequences.

I like to think Madelyne is evil because she's a clone of Jean and Jean has her own dark side she keeps submerged. Sinister pushed those elements of Jean's psyche to the forefront in his creation of Madelyne so she was predispositioned to do bad things like traffic with goblins and seek their empowerment. However that doesn't mean she can't change and is eternally corrupted, she has a strong will she could overcome her creation, the goblins and the Phoenix Force.

[JudicatorPrime]

I like to think Madelyne is evil because she's a clone of Jean and Jean has her own dark side she keeps submerged. Sinister pushed those elements of Jean's psyche to the forefront in his creation of Madelyne so she was predispositioned to do bad things like traffic with goblins and seek their empowerment. However that doesn't mean she can't change and is eternally corrupted, she has a strong will she could overcome her creation, the goblins and the Phoenix Force.

Possibly. But in thinking about Maddie's initial history, she didn't behave any differently than any other human being in her situation. Not until after S'ym tempted her with the dark powers of the GF.

[JudicatorPrime]

I like to think Madelyne is evil because she's a clone of Jean and Jean has her own dark side she keeps submerged. Sinister pushed those elements of Jean's psyche to the forefront in his creation of Madelyne so she was predispositioned to do bad things like traffic with goblins and seek their empowerment. However that doesn't mean she can't change and is eternally corrupted, she has a strong will she could overcome her creation, the goblins and the Phoenix Force.

Possibly. But in thinking about Maddie's initial history, she didn't behave any differently than any other human being in her situation. Not until after S'ym tempted her with the dark powers of the GF.

[Drey]

but that didnt happen. We saw her transformation. Claremont did her justice as best he could by taking the time over several issues to showcase her descent. I dont think a retcon saying it was happening slowly before that serves any purpose. The biggest knock against Maddie is she is raerly used. She is never around long enough to get any actual character development. There is no need to try and retcon her past; it happened. She isnt a character that needs to have this stuff whitewashed and forgotten. Its all about moving forward from now. The 3 biggest people she hurt were Scott, Jean and Nathan and honestly, I dont see any of them holding grudges against her especially since they werent 100% innocent (well Nathan was) and viewed her as sympathetic after the fact. Nobody else has a reason to hate and turn her down.

Don't get me wrong, I just threw that scenario out there for those that would love for her to have a fresh start. For me personally, everything that happened was truly Madelyne although, she was corrupted by black magick which was out of her control. X-man did a fair job of making her a character that wasn't a straight up villain and gave her some actual layers to her personality. The X-man version of Madelyne Pryor was the first version I knew, so it's also the one that made me love the character.

I was hoping that something would be done with her after she was resurrected in 2014, since she seemingly was more level headed now that she was truly alive again. It's unfortunate that no one saw fit to do something with her, but would rather use another alternate version of her that didn't die during Inferno. One day she will get the spotlight she deserves.

[Anodyne]

Don't get me wrong, I just threw that scenario out there for those that would love for her to have a fresh start. For me personally, everything that happened was truly Madelyne although, she was corrupted by black magick which was out of her control. X-man did a fair job of making her a character that wasn't a straight up villain and gave her some actual layers to her personality. The X-man version of Madelyne Pryor was the first version I knew, so it's also the one that made me love the character.

I was hoping that something would be done with her after she was resurrected in 2014, since she seemingly was more level headed now that she was truly alive again. It's unfortunate that no one saw fit to do something with her, but would rather use another alternate version of her that didn't die during Inferno. One day she will get the spotlight she deserves.

I agree that Madelyne should acknowledge her past; but then she needs to rise above it and get on with her life. But the X-Men should acknowledge that she's as much a real person as any of them.

I'd like to see her portrayed as a scarred soul trying to find her way back from darkness to light. She's horrified by what she almost did in Inferno, and is grateful to those who stopped her. She needs to accept that the Goblin Queen is part of her. But so is Anodyne. She's struggling to unite these disparate aspects of herself into a whole woman.

An alternate scenario: Maddie is de-aged to infancy (by whoever did it to Magneto?) and adopted by a loving family who'll give her the childhood and parental guidance she was denied. Will the Goblin Queen's sins be redeemed, or will memories of them eventually come back to haunt the new Madelyne (or maybe her adoptive parents will give her a new name). Either way, may she have supportive parental figures to guide her this time.

[Havok83]

An alternate scenario: Maddie is de-aged to infancy (by whoever did it to Magneto?) and adopted by a loving family who'll give her the childhood and parental guidance she was denied. Will the Goblin Queen's sins be redeemed, or will memories of them eventually come back to haunt the new Madelyne? Either way, may she have supportive parental figures to guide her this time.

that was Moira and she's dead

[WallStreeter]

I agree that Madelyne should acknowledge her past; but then she needs to rise above it and get on with her life. But the X-Men should acknowledge that she's as much a real person as any of them.

I'd like to see her portrayed as a scarred soul trying to find her way back from darkness to light. She's horrified by what she almost did in Inferno, and is grateful to those who stopped her. She needs to accept that the Goblin Queen is part of her. But so is Anodyne. She's struggling to unite these disparate aspects of herself into a whole woman.

An alternate scenario: Maddie is de-aged to infancy (by whoever did it to Magneto?) and adopted by a loving family who'll give her the childhood and parental guidance she was denied. Will the Goblin Queen's sins be redeemed, or will memories of them eventually come back to haunt the new Madelyne (or maybe her adoptive parents will give her a new name). Either way, may she have supportive parental figures to guide her this time.

Sadly 616 Maddie's return was botched and we haven't seen her since. The Maddie we've seen is the Battle World Goblin Queen, who essentially absorbed the essence of the Darkchilde into herself and became a complete demon. That Maddie is irredeemable. And they only used the Goblin Queen as an enemy of the o5, and now they are going back to their own time.

The X-Men always acknowledged she was a real person, she was a friend of theirs and provided support for the team even until she got corrupted into the Goblin Queen. Then she killed herself and died.

Cyclops told Madelyne on the astral plane she was free to join them and help them stop Apocalypse. That Maddie was a ghost. But yes Cyclops acknowledged her as a person and invited her to join the team. She declined.

When the X-Men went to kill Arkea, Storm out of their past relationship and alliance even offered to let Maddie and Selene walk (the X-Men were allied with the Hellfire Club for a bit, so for awhile Selene was an ally and Maddie was a past friend) because the X-Men were their to kill Arkea, who had targeted them.

[AbnormallyNormal]

What are you all's thoughts on the "Sisterhood" that Brian Wood was developing last time we saw Maddy?

[xhx23x]

What are you all's thoughts on the "Sisterhood" that Brian Wood was developing last time we saw Maddy?

Terrible outfit choice. Kinda forgetable.