Madelyne Pryor: Red Queen Appreciation 2018

[AHRNIHAL]

What is Maddy now physically?

A Phoenix fragment?

A being composed entirely of pure psionic energy?

A cloned body?

Something else???

Forgotten.

[Uncanny X-Man]

What is Maddy now physically?

A Phoenix fragment?

A being composed entirely of pure psionic energy?

A cloned body?

Something else???

If I recall correctly, her body was recreated by Arkema. For sanity's sake I've always just thought of it as a replica of her own body, and therefore a clone of Jean's. But she's very much flesh and blood again and I'd be curious to know what she's been up to since coming back to life.

[Harpsikord]

Something I thought about - what if Maddy was as bad as she is not because of Sinister or entirely because of being turned by Nastir, but because she never had a whole soul of her own?

[Havok83]

Something I thought about - what if Maddy was as bad as she is not because of Sinister or entirely because of being turned by Nastir, but because she never had a whole soul of her own?

that doesnt work bc she started off good. We know she was good. She only got corrupted after N'astirh got involved and the truth about Sinister was revealed. I dont think saying she didnt have a whole soul adds anything. I think it unnecesarily complicates her story arc and removes some of the agency she had in that story.

[Askani's Flame]

Something I thought about - what if Maddy was as bad as she is not because of Sinister or entirely because of being turned by Nastir, but because she never had a whole soul of her own?

Is this the age-old "do clones have souls?" question? She very clearly had a moral compass that changed significantly given the experiences in her life.

[JudicatorPrime]

Something I thought about - what if Maddy was as bad as she is not because of Sinister or entirely because of being turned by Nastir, but because she never had a whole soul of her own?

Has Marvel ever established whether or not a clone has a soul, and if so, is it a unique soul or somehow metaphysically tied to the original? Probably not worth the trouble of making the distinction. In any event, if it's one thing that we know about daemonic types, they love pursuing those pure souls. Whatever Maddy has, it was worth pursuing and corrupting.

[JudicatorPrime]

Is this the age-old "do clones have souls?" question? She very clearly had a moral compass that changed significantly given the experiences in her life.

I don't know that the soul has ever been what determines morality or immorality. It's the choices that one makes, which is entirely a cerebral process.

[JudicatorPrime]

I was going to Disney her up for the jam, but figured I'd just drop this here instead.

[Anodyne]

Has Marvel ever established whether or not a clone has a soul, and if so, is it a unique soul or somehow metaphysically tied to the original? Probably not worth the trouble of making the distinction. In any event, if it's one thing that we know about daemonic types, they love pursuing those pure souls. Whatever Maddy has, it was worth pursuing and corrupting.

People in the real world can't even establish whether anyone has a soul. For my opinion, see my sig quote.

In the MU, I'd say a soul ought to be a prerequisite for appearing on the astral plane (plain?)--which Maddie has done; so IMHO any character who says clones don't have souls is simply revealing the writer's prejudices.

[Harpsikord]

Has Marvel ever established whether or not a clone has a soul, and if so, is it a unique soul or somehow metaphysically tied to the original? Probably not worth the trouble of making the distinction. In any event, if it's one thing that we know about daemonic types, they love pursuing those pure souls. Whatever Maddy has, it was worth pursuing and corrupting.

Maddy had a soul for a while. That was the bit of Phoenix that was inside of her at the time that she was revived - but she eventually lost it at the close of Inferno. The implication that it was the part of Jean's soul that Phoenix had in it that brought Maddy to life says that clones need souls to live, but either way, my idea was that it was the fact that it was such a small fragment that allowed her to be corrupted in the way that she was.

[Drey]

Maddy had a soul for a while. That was the bit of Phoenix that was inside of her at the time that she was revived - but she eventually lost it at the close of Inferno. The implication that it was the part of Jean's soul that Phoenix had in it that brought Maddy to life says that clones need souls to live, but either way, my idea was that it was the fact that it was such a small fragment that allowed her to be corrupted in the way that she was.

I was going to Disney her up for the jam, but figured I'd just drop this here instead.

Oooh I like that. The shorter hair reminds me of an updated variation of her original Paul Smith design.

Maddy had a soul for a while. That was the bit of Phoenix that was inside of her at the time that she was revived - but she eventually lost it at the close of Inferno. The implication that it was the part of Jean's soul that Phoenix had in it that brought Maddy to life says that clones need souls to live, but either way, my idea was that it was the fact that it was such a small fragment that allowed her to be corrupted in the way that she was.

I guess it is up to the writer. The story does indeed implicate that the combination of part of Jean's soul combined with the Phoenix force sparked consciousness inside Madelyne, who was alive only physically. It reminds me of an anime I used to watch years ago where a powerful priestess had her body brought back to life, but there wasn't really any kind of mind inside because her soul had already been reincarnated into a girl with no memory of her past life. Once the girl's soul was ripped out of her & forced into her past life's recreated body, only then that the body really came to life remembering everything up to her death and no memory of being that reincarnated girl.

Until something even stranger happened and the girl ended up with most of her soul back & the original body kept the rest and then both of them existed at the same time as frenemies with the same spiritual powers. Ok I totally got off track lol.

But then you have instances where clones like Nate Grey and Stryfe had consciousness from the start.

And btw, yes Maddie is a real life girl again. Her consciousness is inside Ana Cortes's body, but Arkea genetically engineered her body to look like Madelyne using Jean's DNA.

[Harpsikord]

I guess it is up to the writer. The story does indeed implicate that the combination of part of Jean's soul combined with the Phoenix force sparked consciousness inside Madelyne, who was alive only physically. It reminds me of an anime I used to watch years ago where a powerful priestess had her body brought back to life, but there wasn't really any kind of mind inside because her soul had already been reincarnated into a girl with no memory of her past life. Once the girl's soul was ripped out of her & forced into her past life's recreated body, only then that the body really came to life remembering everything up to her death and no memory of being that reincarnated girl.

Until something even stranger happened and the girl ended up with most of her soul back & the original body kept the rest and then both of them existed at the same time as frenemies with the same spiritual powers. Ok I totally got off track lol.

Inuyasha? Haha

And btw, yes Maddie is a real life girl again. Her consciousness is inside Ana Cortes's body, but Arkea genetically engineered her body to look like Madelyne using Jean's DNA.

Wait, what? I'm pretty sure that her original body was brought back to life, alongside Selene's, with the help of the Enchantress and Arkea. It's Lady Deathstrike that was in Ana Cortes, but that was dropped.

[Izanami]

I just realized I want to see Madelyne come back and form her own team of X-Men or Mercenaries. She can work well being an Anti-Hero or a character with grey on grey morality. Do the things Jean herself cannot to protect those she cares about. Also a costume and personality outside of Grey.

[Harpsikord]

I just realized I want to see Madelyne come back and form her own team of X-Men or Mercenaries. She can work well being an Anti-Hero or a character with grey on grey morality. Do the things Jean herself cannot to protect those she cares about. Also a costume and personality outside of Grey.

I had a thought some time ago where she's the "villain forced to work with the good guys" trope, for a while at least, and then at the end would be more morally gray and less "Evil Jean." I also like the idea that the two of them could have a love/hate relationship and operate less as separate entities entirely and more as twins.

[AbnormallyNormal]

Could Maddy sort of function the way Emma Frost has been, like a snarky sarcastic bitch , counterpoint to Saint Jean and Stoic Storm? Or Cheerful Rogue etc?

Except I figure Maddy wouldn't be snarky really like Emma is, but more just, have a kind of inner darkness and seriousness, like a bit "off" in there, eccentric. Hints of grand schemes.

I view Maddy's personality a lot like Magik's I guess