Madelyne Pryor: Red Queen Appreciation 2018

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Uncanny X-Men #234 Sep 1988
"Glory Day"
In Denver, the X-Men continue to try and hunt down mutants infected by the Brood and prevent their attempt to try and take over the world.
Their battle explodes into the trendy Mile High Diner when Dazzler is thrown
through the front window by the fire-breathing Brood known as Spitball.
When the patrons believe Dazzler is the villain they grab her until Spitball tries to incinerate them all.
Ducking to safety, Dazzler is open to an attack by Whiphand, and she is then knocked out by the teleporting Blindside.
When the humans in the diner attempt to attack the Brood, they prove to be no match.
Dazzler and the patrons are rescued by her fellow X-Men who arrive in the nick of time.
As Longshot saves a diner patron from Spitball,
Colossus snaps Whiphand's neck and Storm arrives and summons lightning to slay Blindside.
While the other X-Men are checking on Dazzler, Spitball flees the scene and is pulled out of the area by
Rogue -- who is still controlled by Temptress's psyche that she accidentally absorbed in an earlier battle.

While back at their secret outback headquarters in Australia,
Madelyne Pryor is still knocked out after being blasted by an exploding monitor screen.
As Gateway watches over her, she dreams that she is a featureless humanoid forced to choose a path in a long desert.
As the beating sun causes her faceless form to melt into her current appearance,
Madelyne trips over a skull and tumbles down a hill into cool water.
She is helped up by the demon known as S'ym who drapes her in a sheet and brings her to a beautiful palace.

There he offers the woman her hearts desire.
Madelyne accepts this offer and he shows her the fingernails on his hand. Each nail shows a different aspect of her personality.
Believing this to only be a dream, Madelyne chooses the one depicting her as a vengeful woman.

S'ym corrects her on her assumption then plunges his finger into her chest, binding the two together and dressing her in strange garb.

Back in Denver, at the Red Rocks auditorium, Reverend William Conover is making last minute arrangements for his sermon.
He once more notes the constant arthritic pain his wife feels and once more wishes there was something he could do to cure her pain.
As the Reverend leaves to address those gathered, Hanna is approached by Harry Palmer's
partner Josey Palmer who tells Conover's wife that she has something that can help her arthritis.
While not far away, Rogue is flying Temptress and Wolverine toward the Red Rocks.
Logan, even though he is slowly transforming into a Brood, resists the conversion with his healing factor.
When he revives, he slays Temptress and Rogue -- still under her control -- tosses him down to the ground.
This causes Psylocke great pain as she (still under Temptress's control as well) travels with Harry Palmer
and the other surviving Brood as they race toward the Red Rocks in a car.
Their car is stopped when it rams into Colossus.
Palmer orders the X-Men dead, and while Psylocke begins shaking free of Temptress's control, Rogue attacks Storm.
When Longshot and Dazzler arrive, Dazzler uses her powers to blast Rogue, saving Storm's life.

This interrupts the reverend's sermon, and his congregation is horrified when Logan appears before them.
The reverend tells them not to fear him, that he needs help.
However, as Logan begins to transform into a Brood, the priest prays to God to save his life.
Logan's healing factor kicks in killing the Brood embryo and causing him to revert to normal,
leaving Conover to believe that the power of prayer saved Logan's life.
The reverend is then attacked by Tension, but Havok arrives and incinerates him with a plasma blast.
As he wonders if he will continue to find killing so easy he is attacked by Spitball and Lockup,
however, he is saved by Longshot and the attack causes a wall to collapse on the two Brood killing them.

In the confusion, Harry Palmer has grabbed William's wife Hanna and threatens to kill her.
While he keeps the X-Men at bay, Logan crawls under the stage and gets the drop on Palmer, pulling him under the stage.
In an attempt to shake Logan's nerve, Palmer reverts to his human form and pretends he doesn't know what he's doing.
Logan, unmoved by this kills Palmer without a single shred of mercy.
In the aftermath of the battle, the Psylocke uses her powers to alter the memories of those present so they don't fully recall who had saved them.
When Trish Tilby interviews William he tells her how they were saved by mutants and how people should not discriminate against them.
When noticing that Hanna's arthritis has been miraculously cured, Conover wonders if God had something to do with it.
Overhearing this, Josey Thomas grins.

As the X-Men return to their base, Havok is commended by Wolverine, however, he doesn't feel so proud because he was forced to kill.

While down below, Madelyne Pryor still lies in the pool, more dead than alive and truly changed from the events that happened in her dream.

Story by Chris Claremont. Art by Marc Silvestri and Joe Rubinstein.

[JudicatorPrime]

Is it too late to retcon everything that happens after Maddie becomes Goblin Queen as "S'ym's dream?"

[ExodusCloak]

The real Madeylne was placed in a cacoon and the one in inferno was the Phoenix fragment cloning Madeylne and taking advice from Sym

[phoenixzero23]

The last time someone asked, JDW said Maddie was a part of Jean's soul that was already back in her.

[Havok83]

Is it too late to retcon everything that happens after Maddie becomes Goblin Queen as "S'ym's dream?"

Yes its too late. There's no need to invalidate a big chunk of her limited history. Theres a strong story to tell of her overcoming her hardships and redeeming herself and that shouldnt be swept under the rug

[FUBAR007]

The last time someone asked, JDW said Maddie was a part of Jean's soul that was already back in her.

Yeah, he's referring to the end of "Inferno", specifically X-Factor vol. 1 #38. Madelyne is revealed to be the "piece of Jean's soul" that the Phoenix used to create its duplicate of Jean. After the Dark Phoenix mess, it tried to give that piece back to Jean, but Jean rejected it. So, the Phoenix put it into Sinister's clone of Jean instead, giving Madelyne life. When Madelyne killed herself in "Inferno", the Phoenix once again gave the soul fragment back to Jean who this time accepted it.

This left Jean with multiple-personality disorder (hers, Phoenix-Jean's, and Madelyne's) for several issues. In X-Factor #50, during the team's showdown with the Celestials, Jean released a massive burst of power, expelling Phoenix-Jean and Madelyne's personalities in the process. However, their memories remained. That's why Jean can remember Mastermind's manipulations, being Dark Phoenix, etc.

IMO, the way forward for Maddie should be: 1) reveal that the Goblin Queen wasn't Madelyne-turned-bad, but rather a demon that possessed her; 2) that the "Madelyne" who's been running around since 1995 (when Nate Grey resurrected her) is the Goblin Queen, not the real Madelyne; 3) have the Phoenix resurrect the real Madelyne as its new host, destroy the Goblin Queen, and become the X-franchise's resident cosmic-powered heroine. This would simultaneously redeem Madelyne, free Jean of the Phoenix (potentially for good), and still allow for new Phoenix stories.

Caveat: no legacy relationship bullshit with Scott. She's done with him. Period. She loved Scott because Phoenix and Sinister made her, their relationship is long over, and she's long past ready to move on.

[Wiccan]

But Maddie managed to still exist after her initial death even though what used to be her soul is back inside Jean. I don't understand why is Jordan White talking like that means Maddie can't be used or be her own person or something. I think it makes more sense that what really gave her life was the Phoenix, not the part of Jean's soul/consciousness/memories that came with it.

[Havok83]

But Maddie managed to still exist after her initial death even though what used to be her soul is back inside Jean. I don't understand why is Jordan White talking like that means Maddie can't be used or be her own person or something. I think it makes more sense that what really gave her life was the Phoenix, not the part of Jean's soul/consciousness/memories that came with it.

She didnt have a body and was a psychic construct created by X-Man. It was complicated but she didnt quite exist in the traditional sense. JDW isnt wrong by saying that Maddie was a part of Jean's soul

[Wiccan]

She didnt have a body and was a psychic construct created by X-Man. It was complicated but she didnt quite exist in the traditional sense. JDW isnt wrong by saying that Maddie was a part of Jean's soul

I know she was a psychic construct before, but she's been resurrected now. Can't characters in the MU just live without having a soul? I think I've seen it mentioned that clones in general likely don't even have them.

[Huntsman Spider]

I know she was a psychic construct before, but she's been resurrected now. Can't characters in the MU just live without having a soul? I think I've seen it mentioned that clones in general likely don't even have them.

You'd be slightly wrong on that last part, as according to Death herself in Ben Reilly: The Scarlet Spider #7, Ben (himself a clone of Peter Parker) does have a soul, it's just been so tarnished by all the torturous deaths and resurrections the Jackal subjected him to that one more would cause it to collapse on itself, thus leaving him with no hope of redemption or healing. Also, Laura Kinney apparently has a soul, but since she's now Logan's actual (genetically engineered) daughter as opposed to "just" his clone . . . That being said, I'll reiterate my desire for a "Clone Wars" kind of saga where the clones of the MU team up to prove that they can live their lives --- good lives, at that --- despite being clones and not devolve into stereotypical "evil twins" that want to destroy everything their progenitors stand for. Ben and Madelyne could commiserate with each other and start a support network for clones unfairly discarded and screwed over because they weren't "the originals," so their lives didn't matter. I'd gladly read that.

[ExodusCloak]

[Havok83]

What was the difference between the Madelyne that Claremont created and the clones we got in Gillen's run? All were clones of Jean Grey. Was the main difference and reason CC's Maddie had a personality and free will bc she had a portion of Jean's soul? Is Madelyne without a soul what we get in AvX?

[wano]

What was the difference between the Madelyne that Claremont created and the clones we got in Gillen's run? All were clones of Jean Grey. Was the main difference and reason CC's Maddie had a personality and free will bc she had a portion of Jean's soul? Is Madelyne without a soul what we get in AvX?

They're simply clone # X, Maddie is the OG

[JudicatorPrime]

The more I think about it, I probably wouldn't waste much time on the soul quandary. There are a number of beings who do not have a soul. There are also sentient beings and cosmic abstracts of all manner which lack souls. Cloud, the sentient nebula, comes to mind. As does Singularity, Centurious and many others. If it really bothered the readership, it's an easy fix for even the most unimaginative writer.

[FUBAR007]

But Maddie managed to still exist after her initial death even though what used to be her soul is back inside Jean. I don't understand why is Jordan White talking like that means Maddie can't be used or be her own person or something. I think it makes more sense that what really gave her life was the Phoenix, not the part of Jean's soul/consciousness/memories that came with it.

What Jordan White is forgetting (or doesn't know) is that Jean expelled Maddie's personality from her mind in X-Factor #50. Jean retains Madelyne's memories, but not her soul. Presumably, when Nate Grey resurrected Madelyne, that expelled soul is what he gave new life. He didn't pull Maddie out of Jean's mind.