Does it make sense for Superman to be closest to Batman out of all other heroes?

[Jim Kelly]

I think this is a pretty awesome story of what if Bruce and Clark were brothers--



And it's not one I read when it came out (unfortunately). I only discovered the story decades later. But it's quite a remarkable story by Jim Shooter, as it shows Batman in rather a dark mood--which is out of the ordinary for 1967 when it was published.

[Agent Z]

It always drove me crazy when the DC writers were forced by their own reasoning not to put Superman and Batman together in the same comic book--and thus the cancelling of WORLD'S FINEST COMICS. And, though we had limited runs of Word's Finest type series, it actually took until 2003 for DC to come out with the ongoing SUPERMAN/BATMAN.

To me that's cutting off your nose to spite your face, That's like a method actor who can't come out of his trailer to film a scene, because he hasn't found his motivation yet.

Really, DC writers, really, you're going to let your intellectual baggage get in the way of publishing an awesome title that will draw in a large fan-base of readers and make huge money for DC, just because you can't think out a way for two characters to be in the same ongoing comic book together? Really? That's just idiocy. Find a way.

I mean, it's easy to say find a way, when you're not the one whose job it is to find a way.

[Jackalope89]

but if in continuity a long time ago it was established that Superman and Hal Jordan are very good friends in fact their friendship suffered a kind of evolution and difficulties from the reign of the supermen more when the destruction of coast city is a direct consequence of the death of Superman apart from Hal Wally West he is also very good friend of Clark

personally several times I saw that Superman seems to get along better with Hal and Wally than with Batman

Yeah, Wally got axed, again. This time pretty brutally. So, that's a no go. Besides which, Wally came from the next gen of heroes along with Nightwing (another person Supes gets along with well).

But stories like Trinity and pre-Flashpoint Superman/Batman actually paint their friendship pretty well. As does the fan comic JL8.

[daBronzeBomma]

There's a little-known but completely true reason for Supes and Bats being close, and I'm going to say it in the most needlessly provocative way possible:

Clark is a pronouced racist.

Or, more specifically, he is a pronounced "species-ist".

Clark clearly prefers the company of regular, even comic book-peak humans (Lois, Jimmy, Martha, Jonathan, Lana, Bruce, John Henry, Perry) and anyone with DNA from Krypton (Kara, Karen, Jon, Conner, Krypto, even Lar counts) over any other type of person.

Then it's a HUGE drop to anyone else.

Amazons ain't human, speedsters ain't human, GLs arent human enough with their rings, Martians are nowhere near human enough nor Kryptonian enough, Atlanteans aren't human enough.

Look at the leeway Clark gives Lex vs the leeway he gives any non-human villain he encounters. Clearly preferential treatment is given to true humans over anyone else in Clark's eyes.

I thoroughly enjoy this character flaw in him, btw.

[bat39]

As already mentioned, in most continuities, they are among the earliest heroes, and the first hero the other teamed up with. They are kind of the 'founding fathers' in a sense of the modern superhero community in the DCU. They've known each other longer than they've known most of the other heroes. So yeah, all that taken together, it makes sense that they tend to have a special relationship that they may not necessarily share with the others.

On a personal level, I think they both fascinate each other. Bruce finds the idea of an alien who, in many ways, behaves more like a normal well-adjusted human being than he himself does, to be fascinating and heartwarming. Clark finds the determination and courage of an ordinary man risking his life every night in a crusade for justice to be admirable and inspiring.

[Jim Kelly]

Hey 1990s Batman and Superman, the jerk store called to say they're running out of you. Really, I'm not sure which of these guys was worse. Superman for making out that he was faster than Barry or Wally and he was just letting them win in their races, because it was for charity or whatever. Or Batman turning his back on all his teammates, the minute they do anything wrong and never giving them a chance for redemption. I would not want to be stuck in an elevator with either of those guys. He who smelt it dealt it.

[Kuwagaton]

I think what we've seen in the years since Loeb is that the no-brainer of putting them together isn't really there for comic readers anymore. You have a book with more than one main character, but you can't split it up like Justice League and maintain popularity because you don't have a ton of characters. You have to focus on largely the two kind of equally: the target audience is pretty much between the Batman readers who are down with "fishbowl over the cowl" type adventures and Superman fans who don't feel infringed upon that he needs big help from a regular human to wrap the case up.

But I couldn't help but think of this when talking about stuck in an elevator:

[The World]

I think what we've seen in the years since Loeb is that the no-brainer of putting them together isn't really there for comic readers anymore. You have a book with more than one main character, but you can't split it up like Justice League and maintain popularity because you don't have a ton of characters. You have to focus on largely the two kind of equally: the target audience is pretty much between the Batman readers who are down with "fishbowl over the cowl" type adventures and Superman fans who don't feel infringed upon that he needs big help from a regular human to wrap the case up.

But I couldn't help but think of this when talking about stuck in an elevator:

Idk, they just seem kind of stiff together. I always kind of think back to that story where they're hunting down all the kryptonite on Earth and Clark gives Bruce a fragment of green Kryptonite only for Bruce to reveal he had a whole bunker of it stored away. The two characters never really seemed like they were on the same wavelength, didn't have any of the same interest, and had no real points to relate to each other. They always needed something to make them spend time together. Most of the time the guys barely seem like they know each other with them only hanging out because they use to a long time ago. You can't really write a deep or nuance relationship between two people who's relationship is no deeper than them just doing the opposite of one another. It's too simplistic.

I know you said that it felt like Batman was just another version of Superman in the Silver Age but I kind of feel it was more like the two were able to meet each other in the middle most of the time. They had as many similarities as they had differences and it gave them a reason to be thick as thieves. You can't really get stuff like this Post-Crisis because it'd be seen as too friendly.

[Jackalope89]

More recently, there was the 2 issue double date mini-arc where Bruce and Selina met up with Clark and Lois and went to an amusement park.

Super Sons and the issues leading up to and tying into Super Sons also demonstrate current Bruce and Clark's friendship.

[db105]

Most of the time the guys barely seem like they know each other with them only hanging out because they use to a long time ago. You can't really write a deep or nuance relationship between two people who's relationship is no deeper than them just doing the opposite of one another. It's too simplistic.

...Whereas any other relationship in superhero comic books has a depth that rivals The Brothers Karamazov?

Reading your argument, it seems to me that you see problems because you do not want or like that relationship. Which is fine but, really, this perceived lack of things in common is only a problem if you want it to be a problem. As others have said in this thread, they do have things in common. I guess this is one of those things where people will never agree, because it's a matter of likes and dislikes.

Anyway, if you do not want them to be friends, how would you like their relationship to be like? Correct and businesslike, or clashing against each other?

[Jim Kelly]

Of course, the reason Batman and Superman were thrown together in the first place was it made sense from a commercial standpoint to feature them on the cover of NEW YORK WORLD'S FAIR 1940 and then on the covers of WORLD'S FINEST COMICS.

The reason they were teamed up in the 1950s was because WFC had reduced its price (to 10 cents from 15 cents) and its page count. So it made better sense to put Superman, Batman and Robin all in the same story. But by that time they had developed into characters that were greatly similar--being edited, written and drawn often by the same people.

How much Batman got from Superman and how much Superman got from Batman would take a lot to figure out. We do know that Bob Kane was trying to replcate the success of Superman, because Vin Sullivan told him that Superman was doing very well in sales. And you can see from the design--worked out between Bill Finger and Bob Kane--that Batman looks a lot like Superman, with the cape and the trunks and the boots and the chest emblem.

They both are orphans, they both experienced tragedies, they both have secret identities, they both are tough on crime. Batman was the first one to develop a family, Superman's came later (yet curiously he never had a kid sidekick on the level of Robin). Batman was the first to have an elaborate cavernous HQ with trophy room, Superman's came later. Batman was the first to have a female spin-off character, Batwoman, Supergirl came later (although there were plenty of stories about a Super-Woman or a Super-Girl before either of those females).

Krypto the Superdog beats out Ace the Bat-Hound by just a hair. Mr. Mxyztplk appears long before Bat-Mite (although Mr. Mxyzptlk comes after Bat-Mite). Lois Lane existed before Julie Madison, Linda Page, Vicki Vale or Silver St. Cloud.

I think that putting Batman and Robin together with Superman was the saving of the Dynamic Duo. If they didn't have that connection with Superman and if their stories weren't so similar, then they could have fallen by the wayside like the Shining Knight, the Crimson Avenger, Wildcat and Mr. Terrific. But always being featured with Superman--the most popular comic book character--kept them in the spotlight and helped to promote their adventures in the other comics.

[The World]

Anyway, if you do not want them to be friends, how would you like their relationship to be like? Correct and businesslike, or clashing against each other?

I'm fine with them being friends. The writers just need to stop acting so embarrassed if they want them to be so. Either have them be friends or don't, but this "HES THE LIGHT AND HES THE DARK" stuff feels more like juvenile and more like a cash grab than it did when they initially had them team up in the 40's.

The OP asked did it make sense for Superman to be so close to Batman. Imo after crisis it didn't writers were worried about Bruce's rep and stuff. Might as well let them go their separate ways, Clark is a busy guy.

[Jim Kelly]

In JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA Nos. 46 and 47 (August and September 1966), Blockbuster and Solomon Grundy beat the hate out of each other, after that they are fast friends.



That seems like the best resolution to a dispute. I don't like these comics that keep a feud going between two characters, because it just gets boring and ridiculous for them to constantly snipe at each other. If they have to start out as combatants--just let them get it out of their system and become friends after that

In the countless stories where Superman and Batman or Clark and Bruce meet for the first time, there's usually some misunderstanding and they get into a quarrel. But that should be the end of it and they should resolve their differences, like adults.

The unfortunate thing in BATMAN V SUPERMAN is that no sooner did they reach a common understanding than Superman had to go and get himself killed. What a downer.