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  1. #1
    Amazing Member RudHao's Avatar
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    Default Does it make sense for Superman to be closest to Batman out of all other heroes?

    Maybe it's just me, but I'd think itd make more sense for Superman to be closest to one of the Green Lanterns considering they are all out having space adventures and Superman often times goes to outer space to do have adventures and would fit quite well in their setting (and vice versa).

    Itd make more sense even for him to be closer to Wonder Woman considering they have similar powers.

    Hell, what about Martian Manhunter? They have so much in common he and Superman should be like brothers, but nope, I'm reading Bendis Superman and hes telling his son that Batman is his brother, I'm like really?

    In Bendis action comics it's like 3 issues into his story and I swear it's like Batman is part of Supermans supporting cast or something, he was In the first issue and in the 3rd one helping Superman out and it's only been 3 issues. In Bendis Superman hes using his relationship to specifically Batman to teach his son life lessons.

    Out of all the heroes to be hanging out with Superman all the time why is it the one who has nothing in common with him?

    You'd think hed be more likely to be involved with Wonder Woman or Martian Manhunter but in actuality if it wasnt for them appearing together in Justice League he would never ever have anything to do with those 2 (for real).

  2. #2
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    None of those characters make as much money as Batman.

  3. #3
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    Yeah it makes no sense. But it's not just Bendis it's pretty much everything after COIE.


    The problem is that they're trying to use ideas that don't really work well with the characters involved. Superman and Batman being brothers gels with the Pre-crisis interpretation of the characters. Post-Crisis and N52 era's both used the wary allies thing and imo given their sad attempts at making them "opposites" it would be best to leave it that way.
    Last edited by The World; 10-12-2018 at 06:26 AM.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by RudHao View Post
    You'd think hed be more likely to be involved with Wonder Woman or Martian Manhunter but in actuality if it wasnt for them appearing together in Justice League he would never ever have anything to do with those 2 (for real).
    Martian Manhunter would be good for synergy reasons, as he has a big part in Supergirl.

  5. #5
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    After DTKR and post-Crisis, it doesn't make sense anymore. I can't think of the modern Superman and Batman as best buddies.

  6. #6
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Having grown up with BTAS even despite also having the Grant Breyfogle run, it took me by surprise to find out that pre crisis Batman was often just written as another Superman. Even into the 80s he would exclaim, “Great Scott!” and say things as if he was winking. In some of WF you would think they were literally brothers if not the same person. So it’s easy to see why they would be tight, to say nothing of the weird intimacy you might catch. But that’s also kinda boring to some, and I imagine many Batman enthusiasts agree because of the spike in popularity for his edgier portrayals.

    The dynamic tension didn’t save Jason but between Bruce and Clark there was something new to chew on. There was a push and pull through which both men would grow in different ways and it more resembles what my three brothers and I have. They can disagree and even fight, but if you step in to fight one then you have both on your hands. They’ve exchanged gifts on many occasions and rely on each other with confidence as iron sharpens iron. Bendis really hit the nail on the head in Superman #4. Pre crisis Superman wouldn’t use that description and with modern Batman that would unfortunately make him look like a sap.

    Other than that I always thought the Manhunter, Hal, Katar, Atom, Cap Atom, Adam Strange, and Kara seemed like the best matches. Some of them lack strong chemistry (like how Clark has a deeper bond with Guy over Hal) and all of them are inferior to Bruce in popularity.

  7. #7
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    Yeah, it makes sense. I'm hopellessly pre-Crisis, I know. You must pity me. But I never could buy into the Batman/Superman split that came in the mid-1980s. It always seemed ridiculously over-emotional and not the way two adult heroes should act. But that was thirty years ago. Are we really stuck at the same place with these guys? All the other iterations of Batman and Superman never lasted that long. You would hope that characters move past one emotional state and change and grow.

    It seems like the people promoting this dichotomy are hung up on the symbolism--Batman is darkness, the night, the human; Superman is brightness, the day, the super-human--but that treats characters as stock images and not as fully rounded individuals. When you look at Bruce and Clark as human beings, there should be more that unites them than divides them. But then there's this strong collective of readers who think there is no Bruce Wayne (he died with his parents) and there is only Batman. And they also claim there's no Superman (that's just a mask) and there is only Clark Kent. So, I guess, it's easy to force this dichotomy on the two heroes when you frame them as such total opposites.

    I don't see them that way. I see them as complex characters. Bruce Wayne didn't die--otherwise Batman would be suprahuman, not anchored in any human emotion and totally overtaken by symbolism--but we know that he has relationships, feelings. There has to be a part of Bruce Wayne that persists and wasn't killed by the Batman inside him. As a real person, Bruce loved his parents and feels their loss. Superman and Clark Kent are two sides of the same person--Kal-El who lost his home, his parents at an early age--and who formed a bond with his adopted parents (who may or may not be dead, continuity depending). Both Bruce and Clark are damaged individuals, with a strong sense of justice, who want to prevent others from experiencing the pain they've endured. They both feel like outcasts in society and hunger to have emotional connection with others, yet are fearful of those connections, because they could lose everyone they love and suffer more pain and loss as a result.

    Bruce and Clark are highly intelligent and have the abilities to acquire information on the other. They can't keep secrets from one another. Clark will know everything there is to know about Batman and Bruce will discover everything there is to know about Superman. That might make them fearful of each other, but they can only hide for so long. They will find each other out. And with that has come honesty and a recognition of the other in themselves. Superman is not so bright as the world believes and Batman is not so dark--and it's Clark and Bruce who are equipped to see those nuances in each other. That makes them brothers. The two heroes who can understand one another best, because no one else in the DC universe is at their level.

    They've been through wars together, they have each other's back. Superman knows that the hero he wants by his side in a fight is the Batman, because Batman never gives up. And Batman knows that Superman is solid, a bulwark against any and all attacks.

    It's like with the Beatles. The only other person who could understand what it was like to be a Beatle was another Beatle. Only they had that rare experience. There are only two heroes who are the World's Finest, Superman and Batman. That connects them in ways that no other DC heroes can be connected. And they both had mothers named Martha.

  8. #8
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    And yet, Ma and Pa Kent weren't aliens from outer-space or with unusual superpowers.
    And Superman married Lois Lane, also a non-super-powered human being.

    Superman likes living among regular human beings; he hasn't permanently left the Earth to live on New Genesis or any place where he would be among just people with amazing abilities like him. He has/had the JLA (and LoSH in the past) for a peer group, but he doesn't spend all his time 24/7 with just them. He likes to pretend he's a bit of a "normal" person, too. He wants to fit in with the common Earth human beings and be one of them.

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    The New 52 version has Superman and Batman already working together long before the Justice League started getting to know each other. It was Batman who suggested Clark to stop pretending to be dead. He has ulterior motive, but young Clark trusted him.
    When Batman still hasn't trusted him completely, it was Dick who began a friendship with Superman. Eventually, though, Batman came to trust Superman, but the process for this last part was unseen.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    And yet, Ma and Pa Kent weren't aliens from outer-space or with unusual superpowers.
    And Superman married Lois Lane, also a non-super-powered human being.

    Superman likes living among regular human beings; he hasn't permanently left the Earth to live on New Genesis or any place where he would be among just people with amazing abilities like him. He has/had the JLA (and LoSH in the past) for a peer group, but he doesn't spend all his time 24/7 with just them. He likes to pretend he's a bit of a "normal" person, too. He wants to fit in with the common Earth human beings and be one of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Yeah, it makes sense. I'm hopellessly pre-Crisis, I know. You must pity me. But I never could buy into the Batman/Superman split that came in the mid-1980s. It always seemed ridiculously over-emotional and not the way two adult heroes should act. But that was thirty years ago. Are we really stuck at the same place with these guys? All the other iterations of Batman and Superman never lasted that long. You would hope that characters move past one emotional state and change and grow.

    It seems like the people promoting this dichotomy are hung up on the symbolism--Batman is darkness, the night, the human; Superman is brightness, the day, the super-human--but that treats characters as stock images and not as fully rounded individuals. When you look at Bruce and Clark as human beings, there should be more that unites them than divides them. But then there's this strong collective of readers who think there is no Bruce Wayne (he died with his parents) and there is only Batman. And they also claim there's no Superman (that's just a mask) and there is only Clark Kent. So, I guess, it's easy to force this dichotomy on the two heroes when you frame them as such total opposites.

    I don't see them that way. I see them as complex characters. Bruce Wayne didn't die--otherwise Batman would be suprahuman, not anchored in any human emotion and totally overtaken by symbolism--but we know that he has relationships, feelings. There has to be a part of Bruce Wayne that persists and wasn't killed by the Batman inside him. As a real person, Bruce loved his parents and feels their loss. Superman and Clark Kent are two sides of the same person--Kal-El who lost his home, his parents at an early age--and who formed a bond with his adopted parents (who may or may not be dead, continuity depending). Both Bruce and Clark are damaged individuals, with a strong sense of justice, who want to prevent others from experiencing the pain they've endured. They both feel like outcasts in society and hunger to have emotional connection with others, yet are fearful of those connections, because they could lose everyone they love and suffer more pain and loss as a result.

    Bruce and Clark are highly intelligent and have the abilities to acquire information on the other. They can't keep secrets from one another. Clark will know everything there is to know about Batman and Bruce will discover everything there is to know about Superman. That might make them fearful of each other, but they can only hide for so long. They will find each other out. And with that has come honesty and a recognition of the other in themselves. Superman is not so bright as the world believes and Batman is not so dark--and it's Clark and Bruce who are equipped to see those nuances in each other. That makes them brothers. The two heroes who can understand one another best, because no one else in the DC universe is at their level.

    They've been through wars together, they have each other's back. Superman knows that the hero he wants by his side in a fight is the Batman, because Batman never gives up. And Batman knows that Superman is solid, a bulwark against any and all attacks.

    It's like with the Beatles. The only other person who could understand what it was like to be a Beatle was another Beatle. Only they had that rare experience. There are only two heroes who are the World's Finest, Superman and Batman. That connects them in ways that no other DC heroes can be connected. And they both had mothers named Martha.
    Very, very well said. I have nothing to add as it has covered everything I feel is these two characters and the bond they have, against expectations with each other and basically how we view them.

  11. #11
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Yeah, it makes sense. I'm hopellessly pre-Crisis, I know. You must pity me. But I never could buy into the Batman/Superman split that came in the mid-1980s. It always seemed ridiculously over-emotional and not the way two adult heroes should act. But that was thirty years ago. Are we really stuck at the same place with these guys? All the other iterations of Batman and Superman never lasted that long. You would hope that characters move past one emotional state and change and grow.
    I’d say no. The idea 30 odd years ago (I guess the best reference for then would be the annual where they fought the werewolves) is that their relationship is never sitting still. As you say, they’re complex. By 1990 even that description was out of date. In the context of current comics, both Superman titles, the Batman title, and Justice League have touched on their relationship within the last few months.

    I guess the day and night comparison does linger though and any use seems like too much use.

  12. #12
    Mighty Member adkal's Avatar
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    The World's Finest maxiseries was great in showing their relationship evolve over a decade.

    Like others have said, they're not supposed to be stuck in one place/emotion, they're supposed to grow. Ups and downs, agreements and disagreements, sure, but growth overall.

  13. #13
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    I remember that in the later issues of WORLD'S FINEST COMICS, they were already playing up this animosity between Batman and Superman. I recall one issue with Keith Giffen art that was like that. But I dropped WFC around that time, in part because of this approach to the characters. So I don't think it was a product of COIE or DARK KNIGHT. In fact, the angsty annoyed Batman was a thing throughout the 1980s, with Bats telling off the JLA and creating the Outsiders.

  14. #14
    Mighty Member adkal's Avatar
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    To clarify, I'm referring to the 10 issue series by Karl Kesel and illustrated by Dave Taylor. Late 90s.

  15. #15
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    It doesn’t make sense to see the Pre-Crisis relationship where they were the bestest of friends, but the Frank Miller interpretation of “these guys hate each other” doesn’t really hold either. Right now I’d say they’ve been through too much together and saved each other’s lives so many times that it would be odd if they didn’t have a strong relationship. At the end of the day both Clark and Bruce are orphans (even if they deal with it differently), loners (whose relationship with their extended families vary), and role models for the super hero community as a whole. That’s some common ground to bond over even if they can annoy the hell out of each other at times.

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