Who is for an Jean Grey/Havok relationship ?

[AHRNIHAL]

Maybe we should start another thread for the blame game.

This thread is after all for jean & havok.

[jmc247]

Fallacy, fallacy, fallacy.

Magneto/Polaris = Xavier/Jean, in many ways. There are multiple psionic, elemental, & teleporting type Mutants, just to name a few prolific ability classes, that are shared. And powers alone, don't make a character. Also...



... among MANY others, all say hi.[/CENTER]

You are quite right. But, the character for decades when the X-Men were at their hottest was consigned to being a girlfriend of Havok or possessed... this factored over to her depiction for years later and even to this day the box that writers depict her inside. How that uneasiness manifests tends to be a type of deflection which occurs the same way when there is discussion of stepping out from under this box.

thats not completely true. Lorna had Bobby years before he came out

They dated in the 60s for a few weeks before it fell into a love triangle yes. But, actual getting beyond first base? No.

[Havok83]

That was about the hate he gets because of lorna in case i was not clear.



I'm serius black.

Both Jean and Psylocke have TP and TK. Its the exact same power. They utilize it differently though as Psylocke is a brawler and prefers to shape her psi-powers in the form of weapons which she uses for close melee combat. Jean tends to attack from a distance but she's capable of forming those same psi-weapons. They have the same power but different fighting style

They dated in the 60s for a few weeks before it fell into a love triangle yes. But, actual getting beyond first base? No.

That scene came before they became an official couple. But yes they didnt have sex as he was iced up (unless they got creative). Thats besides teh point though considering Wolfsbane was listed as being a prospective love interest for Alex in the same comparison and we know they went nowhere

[AHRNIHAL]

Both Jean and Psylocke have TP and TK. Its the exact same power. They utilize it differently though as Psylocke is a brawler and prefers to shape her psi-powers in the form of weapons which she uses for close melee combat. Jean tends to attack from a distance but she's capable of forming those same psi-weapons. They have the same power but different fighting style

Well,you said it.

[Heroine Addict]

Connection meant as the exact same power.And where was rachel's development when jean was gone?

Havok is never gonna get out of Scott's shadow.

Scott's dead.

Psylocke's literally been trolled as being a lesser Jean, IN STORY! By the derivative Sabretooth, no less.

Emma's own fans have complained that she devolved into filling Jean's role over recent years, in the latter's absence. Her diamond form's pretty much a carbon copy of Colossus' powers, who had 'em first. In fact, I think there might be some further correlation there, regarding her NXM inclusion.

Many of the same arguments made about Jean/Rachel, can be made about Jean/Emma and/or Betsy.

[AHRNIHAL]

Scott's dead.

Psylocke's literally been trolled as being a lesser Jean, IN STORY! By the derivative Sabretooth, no less.

Emma's own fans have complained that she devolved into filling Jean's role over recent years, in the latter's absence. Her diamond form's pretty much a carbon copy of Colossus' powers, who had 'em first. In fact, I think there might be some further correlation there, regarding her NXM inclusion.

Many of the same arguments made about Jean/Rachel, can be made about Jean/Emma and/or Betsy.

Well,you are further proving my point.

[Havok83]

Well,you said it.

Well,you are further proving my point.

I think the problem or confusing is that no one quite gets what it is. You just post short one line sentences with no elaboration

[Heroine Addict]

Well,you said it.

Magneto tends to be more of a metal bender, regularly eXploiting the elements of his battlefield environment, that are under his control. While Polaris has shown a healthier aptitude for manipulating the EM field itself, to various effects, such as power blasts & gravitational feats.

[Heroine Addict]

Well,you are further proving my point.

No, you've just missed mine, and everybody else's. I don't think you have one.

[DarkMagnus]

ew

10 chars

[salarta]

thats not completely true. Lorna had Bobby years before he came out

True that she had an almost relationship with him, but that was waaaaaay back nearly 50 years ago and it didn't get much before she got shoved to Havok.

Lorna got screwed because of her connection to magneto

No.

Lorna being Magneto's daughter was completely abandoned until the late 90s. The entire time from forced retcon out of being Magneto's daughter to the late 90s was slow and steady character assassination. Lorna lost her friendship with Jean, her relationship history with Iceman, her feminist nature, her status as the second X-woman meaning anything, and with Claremont even her powers. By the end of that road, writers had shoved her into an apartment to whine and cry over Havok's costume endlessly.

All of that is on her connection to Havok. It was through making her "beneath" him that Lorna had everything taken from her and thrown away to such a thorough extent that Marvel refuses to do anything for her right now when literally any other character that isn't Lorna would be all over the place right now given her popularity from a TV show. Marvel had no problem pushing Blink when they thought she'd be the breakout star, but now that it's Lorna, it's crickets.

You know what being linked to Magneto got her? She got out of that apartment. She started helping mutants, spent time with her brother and sister, survived the Genoshan genocide, started to question the philosophies of Xavier and Magneto, and did things with her powers besides throwing spoons around.

The ONLY problem Lorna's had as Magneto's daughter so far came from Blue taking cues from her treatment around Havok to treat Lorna the same way: as a plot device to build up whichever prominent man is near her. There's a reason I railed on the book and writer for this. I don't want her relationship with her father to become toxic like what happened with Havok.

powerset,powerset,powrset.

And this doesn't matter unless Marvel is run by idiots. Different characters can use their powers different ways. I've even outlined multiple times how Lorna could use her powers for pseudo-psychic abilities, for more intellectual approaches based on her education, etc, while Magneto can be more powerful, more experienced and crueler than Lorna would be.

[Havok83]

True that she had an almost relationship with him, but that was waaaaaay back nearly 50 years ago and it didn't get much before she got shoved to Havok.

I wasnt talking about the 60s. Bobby and Polaris were an official couple in the 00s and broke up shortly after M-Day

[JudicatorPrime]

What are we talking about again?

[Abbz_A]

What are we talking about again?

Beats me ..

[jmc247]

I wasnt talking about the 60s. Bobby and Polaris were an official couple in the 00s and broke up shortly after M-Day

You are right they had something in the early to mid Milligan years, Milligan when he took over presented Lorna as emotionally and mentally destroyed and Bobby was comforting her, but my feeling at the time was it was being presented as a platonic hurt/comfort relationship turned renewed Bobby/Alex feud with Lorna in the middle.