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Thread: Dark Phoenix

  1. #1381
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Well to his credit Kinberg is accepting some of the blame for this mess.

    https://comicbook.com/marvel/amp/201...rcial-failure/

  2. #1382
    Extraordinary Member The Shape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Well to his credit Kinberg is accepting some of the blame for this mess.

    https://comicbook.com/marvel/amp/201...rcial-failure/
    Yeah, I posted that on the previous page.

  3. #1383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    This makes sense given the movie version. But what was Jean afraid of and dreaming about in Apocalypse? Her true Phoenix power? Apocalypse destroying the world? Or did she foresee this cosmic power and turning into Dark Phoenix?
    I think she was "sensing" Apocalypse.

  4. #1384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bl00dwerK View Post
    I decided to skip seeing it. The bad reviews and the woke-ass Mystique rant turned me off. I hope Disney doesen't fuck the X-Men up with any progressive bullshit when they start making the films. I really want to see and enjoy them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    I hate forced politics of any kind in films but there is a certain irony to say you'd hate "progressive bullshit" in a comic property that is progressive in its very concept.
    Comparing progressive politics embodied by older X-Men comics and the activism of those days and more current activism ideologies, to me, is like comparing the old and new testament and trying to reconcile both as having the same message.
    The older progressive version being contingent on striving to see shared humanity and helping up your brother.
    Much of the later, more modern politics having more to do with that old testament style vengeance, about magnifying past grievances around identity and demonizing a mixing of cultures. So, I don't exactly see the disconnect with embracing and loving the message of old with the X-books while viewing much of the modern politics claiming to support that message as counterintuitive to actually progressing, given the methodology previously stated.

    My thoughts on the actual film would be I enjoyed it quite a bit. I liked seeing the Morrison era jackets, from Xavier and Magneto going off to Genosha being a nice nod to the 2000s Excalibur title to the Jean Grey school header, I enjoyed the nods to different X-Men era's. I enjoyed seeing the actor who played the doc in the tv series Copper as one of the aliens, Jeans struggle with the force was realized well, Jeans humiliating marionetting of Charles and his conversation with her father helping break through to her played well. While Charles fears being realized with them being rounded up was a good reaffirming of his fears, him coming to terms with the fact he should've worked through it with Jean showed growth, as did him stepping away with the acknowledgement Beast may be right and at this point he may be doing more harm than good. Given that the D'bari were going to exterminate humanity and Kurt had seen the guard die firsthand as a start, I was good with it being to the death. Having a few character beats regarding it with Kurt wouldn't have hurt, but doesn't break the scene for me.
    I'm pretty atypical of the board here as I've liked all the X-Men films, even the ones with clear script issues (X-3, Origins, Apocalypse) and prefer the X-films to the MCU. I would say this film is better than the 3 I just mentioned but below the orhers in the franchise. Squarely in the middle, but with a lot of enjoyable scenes. Some of the scenes, the way they were shot, did have more of a television feel to the directing, I will cop to that. A few scenes lingered longer than they should have but the film still had a good flow to it and really ramped up in the third act.

  5. #1385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Well to his credit Kinberg is accepting some of the blame for this mess.

    https://comicbook.com/marvel/amp/201...rcial-failure/
    He clearly thought too highly of what the Foxmen series of films has done in comparison of other works. They didn't take a critical eye to what has been wrong with the Fox Men movies in general. And doubled down on those failures thinking he was doing some grande finale.

    I can't even contemplate how bad New Mutants will be. Developed with the same mindset, I don't care how many reshoots you do at this point. The whole premise they start with in developing the movies and characters is always flawed. The only good thing is at least they are forced not to try to develop characters we haven't seen yet.

    Not relying on Wolverine, Professor X, Mystique, Magneto overmuch.

  6. #1386
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    Yesterday I rewatched "First Class" after years, and it was a pure cinematic beauty. Just a brilliant and outstanding superhero movie.
    Fassbander and McAvoy were at the top of their games. The acting, the screenplay and the direction were spectacular, as well the make-up and the costumes.
    The CGI on the sequence in which the missiles explode was incredible for a 2011 movie. I just wish that sequence was longer, it lasted few seconds. That's my only complaint about the movie.

  7. #1387
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    He clearly thought too highly of what the Foxmen series of films has done in comparison of other works. They didn't take a critical eye to what has been wrong with the Fox Men movies in general. And doubled down on those failures thinking he was doing some grande finale.

    I can't even contemplate how bad New Mutants will be. Developed with the same mindset, I don't care how many reshoots you do at this point. The whole premise they start with in developing the movies and characters is always flawed. The only good thing is at least they are forced not to try to develop characters we haven't seen yet.

    Not relying on Wolverine, Professor X, Mystique, Magneto overmuch.
    People are circulating that interview a lot because he's pleasant, humble, and shares quite a bit. But all that said, he's still abjectly terrible at writing these stories as movies and some of his comments are mind-blowing in how naive and disconnected they are. He thought his 200M production of Dark Phoenix was a small and intimate movie. That's.....delusional? Denial? I don't know but it's hard to say he is seeing his own failures with much clarity.

    Then again, if at any point he had realized his failures maybe he wouldn't have kept repeating them over and over again as you say.

  8. #1388
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Wow biggest Friday to Friday drop for a Superhero film

    https://www.cinemablend.com/news/247...uperhero-movie

  9. #1389
    Extraordinary Member The Shape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Wow biggest Friday to Friday drop for a Superhero film

    https://www.cinemablend.com/news/247...uperhero-movie
    You can see why the filmmakers were panicking about the June release. Regardless of whether you like this movie or not I think we can all agree it’s not the worse superhero movie ever or even in recent memory.

  10. #1390
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    Dark Phoenix: some considerations

    1- "Dark Phoenix" features the third alien element in the saga (D'Bari). Adamantium comes from an alien substance extrapolated from a meteor, and Apocalypse's special armour and body-swapping equipment/base is obviously alien (Celestial?).

    2- In the original timeline(s), the Cosmic Force was orbitating around Earth in 1992, but the "Endeavour" shuttle wasn't there, as well as the X-Men (more specifically, Jean Grey). So presumibly, the Force ignored Earth and kept travelling across galaxies as always. D'Bari people followed it... elsewhere.

    3- Hank uses a different (new) serum, because he can convert into Beast without getting "angry", as evinced before the train fight.

    4- Mystique is the third X-Man to die in the final timeline, after Banshee and Havok.

    5- Vuk must be a "mutant" D'Bari and not a normal D'Bari, because she managed to handle the Force and absorb it from Jean.

    6- The helmet Magnet uses is the original one from "First Class", apparently.

    7- DP Selene resembles LS Callisto a lot.

    8- Beast is the first X-Man to join the Brotherhood of Mutants.

    9- The Mutant Containment Camp must have been existing BEFORE the events of "Dark Phoenix". This means that humans STILL secretly feared mutants, despite the X-Men had become national heroes.

  11. #1391
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    9- The Mutant Containment Camp must have been existing BEFORE the events of "Dark Phoenix". This means that humans STILL secretly feared mutants, despite the X-Men had become national heroes.
    Yah, I picked up on that too. Xavier also stated a couple of times, at least, that the reason he was risking mutant lives to much was an attempt to maintain the peace between mutants and humans. And Mystique's beef with him was basically about all the hoops he was jumping through to maintain their image. It's definitely implied that the peace is a fragile one that could break any moment.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  12. #1392
    Fantastic Member TriggerWarning's Avatar
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    Just saw it today. I've loved most of the X-men movies. I think the Apocalypse movie is criminally underrated. That said the best I can muster for this movie is a hearty Meh!

    The good:

    1) It has Cyclops and he wasn't killed off early so Wolverine could take center stage with Jean. Still criminally underused but he was at least there at the end and it was his near death that pushed Jean to sacrifice herself.
    2) The casting for the most part remains excellent even if the non aging thing is getting beyond ridiculous in this franchise.
    3) Jean committed suicide in the end. This was core to the comic book storyline and having Wolverine kill Jean in Last Stand undermined the whole story.
    4) Touched on post 2000's plotlines with Xavier where he isn't such a good guy

    The bad)

    1) While not the travesty of Last Stand it still wasn't a good rendition of the Dark Phoenix storyline.
    2) No Cyclops visor scene where Jean holds back his optic blasts with her powers. This was a huge moment in the comic storyline and could have easily been worked into this film.
    3) Storyline too rushed. This is a storyline that should have been told in 3 parts. Jean gets Phoenix powers in 1st movie. Seeds of her being too powerful and losing control in the 2nd. Dark Phoenix in the 3rd.
    4) Don't like this rendition of Nightcrawler. X2's version was great but this one just feels off.
    5) Society turned on the X-men way too quick. Heroes to zeroes over one incident involving one person.
    6) An underwhelming end to a franchise that had some glorious highs (X-men started the current superhero boom and Logan is arguably the best superhero movie ever).

  13. #1393
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriggerWarning View Post
    Just saw it today. I've loved most of the X-men movies. I think the Apocalypse movie is criminally underrated. That said the best I can muster for this movie is a hearty Meh!

    The good:

    1) It has Cyclops and he wasn't killed off early so Wolverine could take center stage with Jean. Still criminally underused but he was at least there at the end and it was his near death that pushed Jean to sacrifice herself.
    2) The casting for the most part remains excellent even if the non aging thing is getting beyond ridiculous in this franchise.
    3) Jean committed suicide in the end. This was core to the comic book storyline and having Wolverine kill Jean in Last Stand undermined the whole story.
    4) Touched on post 2000's plotlines with Xavier where he isn't such a good guy

    The bad)

    1) While not the travesty of Last Stand it still wasn't a good rendition of the Dark Phoenix storyline.
    2) No Cyclops visor scene where Jean holds back his optic blasts with her powers. This was a huge moment in the comic storyline and could have easily been worked into this film.
    3) Storyline too rushed. This is a storyline that should have been told in 3 parts. Jean gets Phoenix powers in 1st movie. Seeds of her being too powerful and losing control in the 2nd. Dark Phoenix in the 3rd.
    4) Don't like this rendition of Nightcrawler. X2's version was great but this one just feels off.
    5) Society turned on the X-men way too quick. Heroes to zeroes over one incident involving one person.
    6) An underwhelming end to a franchise that had some glorious highs (X-men started the current superhero boom and Logan is arguably the best superhero movie ever).
    Fun Facts:

    -They actually did filmed the visor scene but it was cut.
    -The film was originally a two-parter until Fox axed it in late pre-production and resulted in the rushed messy plot we have now.
    Last edited by The Shape; 06-16-2019 at 08:28 AM.

  14. #1394
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    More considerations:


    10- The KITCHEN where Hank confronted Charles is not the SAME where Charles met Raven for the first time, as claimed. The school has been rebuilt from scratch at the end of "Apocalypse", indeed.


    11- In the movie, Raven criticized the use of identical uniforms. Surely she preferred the individual costumes at the very end of "Apocalypse".


    12- Raven doesn't display any super-agility feats in either "Apocalypse" and "Dark Phoenix".


    13- Beast's make-up in DP was the best out of the 5 Fox movies featuring Beast.


    14- The "Killing Spree" of Nightcrawler is totally IN CHARACTER. First, he already had got his "sin tattoos" by the age of 18-20 (see "Apocalypse"), and this means that rage and other negative aspects are already present in him.

    Besides, this version of Nightcrawler has a feral attitude, as evinced in the Danger Room at the end of "Apocalypse", where he growls like an animal.


    15- Storm could have kept Apocalypse's power enhacement, after all. The impressive multiple lightning display is very powerful and never shown by any other incarnation of Storm before.


    16- Storm apart, codenames are almost never mentioned.

  15. #1395
    Astonishing Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Yeah, a shame about the rushed feeling. With all that content, it could have and should have been edited professionally to make the movie we gave all been awaiting.

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