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Thread: Dark Phoenix

  1. #1366
    Extraordinary Member The Shape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post

    Kinberg though what Marvel films did he serve as both Writer and Producer on once Lauren Shuler Donner quit having input on the films? Fan4stick, Apocalyse, and now Dark Phoenix that is not encouraging also every single one of these films had production issues and there is one common thread now IMO.
    Apocalypse production issues were the result of Singer going AWOL on set. He did it with Bohemian Rhapsody. Apparently, he also did the same with DOFP Superman Returns.

    Did the Studio make decisions that slightly tied his hands? Yes. But also people have said they learned the wrong lessons from Apocalypse especially that the story needed to be smaller and that also helped with the issues with telling the Phoenix story in this film. I mean Kinberg was a big cheerleader of the more "Grounded" approach to this film while making it.
    I honestly don’t think that was much of a problem.
    Last edited by The Shape; 06-13-2019 at 05:00 PM.

  2. #1367
    Extraordinary Member The Shape's Avatar
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    Singer went AWOL on DOFP and Apocalypse, Kinberg had to fill in.

    https://www.indiewire.com/2019/06/br...dy-1202148666/

  3. #1368
    the devil's reject choptop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comic-Reader Lad View Post
    Yes, from what I've read, Men in Black International, like Dark Phoenix, is ALSO tracking for a franchise low.

    I think from now until the end of July, the big box office will come from Disney.

    JUNE 21 - Toy Story 4

    JULY 3 - Spider-Man: Far from Home (OK, this is Sony, but it's Marvel Studios produced)

    JULY 19 - The Lion King
    This is true
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenr...edictions/amp/

  4. #1369
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Shape View Post
    Singer went AWOL on DOFP and Apocalypse, Kinberg had to fill in.

    https://www.indiewire.com/2019/06/br...dy-1202148666/
    Singer went AWOL on DOFP so cool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me so yeah the buck stops at Kinberg. He can't just take credit when goes right then point fingers when it goes wrong.

  5. #1370
    Extraordinary Member The Shape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Singer went AWOL on DOFP so cool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me so yeah the buck stops at Kinberg. He can't just take credit when goes right then point fingers when it goes wrong.
    It’s Deadline’s inside sources that’s saying this.

  6. #1371
    New and Improved hulahulk's Avatar
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    I was expecting a total bomb. But it was more like a 68% to 74% bomb. The train fight was pretty good, as was the JG/Mags confrontation. Refreshing to see no Wolvie. But I totally understand the gripes.
    Original join date: sometime in 2002

  7. #1372
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Singer went AWOL on DOFP so cool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me so yeah the buck stops at Kinberg. He can't just take credit when goes right then point fingers when it goes wrong.
    I never heard this about DOFP but Singer going AWOL from Bahemien Rhaspody and Apoclypse I've heard before

  8. #1373
    Extraordinary Member The Shape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    I never heard this about DOFP but Singer going AWOL from Bahemien Rhaspody and Apoclypse I've heard before
    He has apparently been doing things like that since Superman Returns.

  9. #1374
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Shape View Post
    He has apparently been doing things like that since Superman Returns.
    I never dug into the story what was the cause? Drug bender? Underage boys? Or he just mysteriously disappears with no explanation gvien? . Wtf I'm certain his careers just about done but how did it last this long? Usual suspects was good but you would think after fu**ing off twice the studios would be done with him

  10. #1375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    That is the story the D'Bari sell to Jean. But when Vux is talking to another of the D'Bari, she says outright they will restart on Earth. They have no intention of gaining control of the Phoenix Force and leaving. They plan to use it on Earth. Which is why they need to be stopped.

    That is one of the things that baffled me plot wise. If the Phoenix Force can be used to create, why wouldn't they use it to restore their planet and civilization. No, instead they intend to use it on Earth and, by extension, enslaving/wiping humanity out.
    It's not the "Phoenix Force".

    Phoenix = Jean Grey's mutant signature power
    Cosmic Force = the shapeless entity possessing her.
    Dark Phoenix = "evil" Jean Grey loosing control over her Phoenix power AND the Cosmic Force attached to her and her power.

  11. #1376
    Extraordinary Member The Shape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Singer went AWOL on DOFP so cool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me so yeah the buck stops at Kinberg. He can't just take credit when goes right then point fingers when it goes wrong.
    And he is not. Kinberg just accepted part of the blame.

    A big flop is painful even to the most successful filmmakers. That didn’t stop writer-producer Simon Kinberg from sharing exclusively with The Business his perspective on what went wrong with ‘Dark Phoenix.’

    Kinberg has worked as a writer and producer on the X-Men movie franchise since 2006, and while he’s sometimes stepped behind the camera when things were going off the rails, ‘Dark Phoenix’ was his directorial debut. The film got panned by critics and opened to only $33 million in the U.S.--the lowest of any of the X-Men movies.

    We talked to Kinberg a few days after that brutal weekend. It’s not excruciating to talk about he said, because, “I actually really like the movie, [and] I had an amazing time making the movie.”

    But that doesn’t mean it was easy. Kinberg told us about the reshoots, release dates changes, and working at Fox as it was being swallowed by Disney.

    Kinberg acknowledged that when a movie doesn’t work, there’s a lot of finger pointing, but said ultimately it comes down to him: “I’m here, I’m saying when a movie doesn’t work, put it on me. I’m the writer-director, the movie didn’t connect with audiences, that’s on me.”

    And while it’s tempting to speculate what might have happened had ‘Dark Phoenix’ been able to stick with one of its preferred release dates or had more time in the Disney marketing machine, Kinberg is trying not to dwell on that.

    “I mean honestly, there’s no way to know,” he said. “And that’s the thing that I think can drive people crazy and keep them up and be thinking about a movie’s failure years later. If the lesson you’ve learned is that you had the wrong date or you didn’t have good marketing--that’s not a lesson.”

    Listen in to hear more from Kinberg, including his mixed feelings on being essentially done with the X-Men as the mutants move over to join their fellow Marvel superheroes at the house that Kevin Feige build. Plus, Kinberg shares his favorite email he’s received following the release of ‘Dark Phoenix.’
    https://www.kcrw.com/culture/shows/t...f-dark-phoenix
    Last edited by The Shape; 06-14-2019 at 04:42 PM.

  12. #1377
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    Exactly. Jean is the hero and the villain of the film. She's also a Christ figure who takes on all the X-Men's sins (Xavier's egotism, Beast's vengeance, and her own bitterness) and cleanses them in a self-sacrificing cathartic moment where they're burned off by the Phoenix force. And then she ascends into the heavens!
    Yah they got quite literal with the Christ figure stuff and JG. Heck she was the only X-Man (oh, excuse me Mystique I meant X-Woman) who was actually spread out like Jesus on a cross in the train. The rest were all seated. It was slightly over the top but I still dug it mainly because it was well done and the line behind schmaltz was walked.
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  13. #1378
    Amazing Member PoorStudent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Shape View Post
    And he is not. Kinberg just accepted part of the blame.



    https://www.kcrw.com/culture/shows/t...f-dark-phoenix
    I really don't like the fox x-men movies, and I'm glad Disney has the rights now, but honestly Kinberg seems like a pretty decent and smart person. He's done some interviews/podcasts and imo he doesn't seem like someone who is doing this for the paycheck or because he doesn't understand the characters. That he took responsibility for the film and didn't place blame on other people like other directors/producers have done kind of shows his character and professionalism. It seems like with a lot of comic movies there is the idea that when the film is good it's because good people made it and when it's bad, it's because bad people made it and are therefore deserving of hate. Some of the same people who made the emoji movie, made Spider-man into the spider-verse, some of the same people who made Deadpool and Logan, made this as well.
    Some interesting interviews with Kinberg:
    http://www.theqandapodcast.com/2016/...calypse-q.html
    http://www.theqandapodcast.com/2014/...comic-con.html

  14. #1379
    Astonishing Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    It's not the "Phoenix Force".

    Phoenix = Jean Grey's mutant signature power
    Cosmic Force = the shapeless entity possessing her.
    Dark Phoenix = "evil" Jean Grey loosing control over her Phoenix power AND the Cosmic Force attached to her and her power.
    This makes sense given the movie version. But what was Jean afraid of and dreaming about in Apocalypse? Her true Phoenix power? Apocalypse destroying the world? Or did she foresee this cosmic power and turning into Dark Phoenix?

  15. #1380
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    This makes sense given the movie version. But what was Jean afraid of and dreaming about in Apocalypse? Her true Phoenix power? Apocalypse destroying the world? Or did she foresee this cosmic power and turning into Dark Phoenix?
    The implication is that Jean Grey is phenomenally powerful without the cosmic boost. That she's already the most powerful mutant on Earth, despite Apocalypse's whining.

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