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Thread: Dark Phoenix

  1. #1171
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Yeesh, this sounds brutally terrible. Must see!
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  2. #1172
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Wait, did Simon Kinberg actually write X3 and Dark Phoenix??

    Like, WTF???
    And X-Men Apocalypse and Fan4Stick.

  3. #1173
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    The Last Stand had a good main plot with the cure, Kelsey Grammar as Beast, Magneto being a boss, and fun action scenes. Pretty much everything about the Phoenix plot was absolutely terrible, but take that out and the movie would be pretty good. Judging by the plot summaries this doesn't have any redeeming qualities.
    Last Stand would have been an okay (not GREAT) movie if it wasn't essentialy 2 movies at once competing for airtime. Phoenix and the mutant cure could have been 2 entirely separate movies. I think it had similar problems to Spider-Man 3 in that it was jamming too much into one movie.

  4. #1174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    I caved and saw it some things I noticed

    spoilers:
    She caused the care accident because she wanted to listen to Werewolves in London a song not released for 3 more years.

    The X-Men going into space was very Armageddon and it's space launch.

    How does Quicksilver speed work in Zero Gravity?

    WTF with Nightcrawler going into space with no actual suit just a helmet for air.

    The age thing is jarring IMO especially when Hank and Raven comment it wasn't that long ago they were partying like the kids are now and how now they're the last of the First Class. It was a long time ago 30 years ago.

    At no time did this feel like 1992 come on put a slap bracelet on one of the younger students something.

    Magneto's new Homeland made me think "Mean while on the Walking Dead" it looked like Hill Top or Alexandria.

    The Alien plot was dumb and made little sense with them wanting the thing that killed their people.

    end of spoilers

    This is my least liked entry into X-Men I recently watched Origins I at least had some fun with it.

    This is a better Phoenix story than Last Stand but Last Stand was a better and more memorable film.

    Even Apocalypse had some better parts than this IMO like Magneto and his new family I found this bland.
    Those points you mentioned bugged me as well. There are so many inaccuracies it really took me out of the film while watching. Plus it takes a big dump on the founding premise of the X-Men inherent in all their comics to begin with.

  5. #1175
    Mighty Member Minerboh's Avatar
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    Just got back from viewing and here my thoughts...

    Take into account that these are my personal thoughts. You may disagree but please do so in a polite way.
    I wrote all spoiler material with white letters. Mark the blancs if you want to read them.

    It is a bad film but it is not that unwatchable mess everyone is claiming to be.

    The good parts is that they do focus on the Dark Phoenix material and it is not that weird mish mash that was X-3.

    The elements that compiled the original Dark Phoenix Saga were there. You could see the attempts of the X-Men (some of them anyway) to protect their comrade going against some pretty overwhelming odds just like their comic counterparts did.

    You could see the attempts of some of the X-Men to reach Jean's positive elements and try to persuade her to focus on these elements.

    You could see the tragedy of Jean's succumbing to her ''evil'' side. In the comic, we all know what ''Jean'' did once she went Dark, in this film she kills Saint Mystique.

    This causes a rift among Beast and Xavier pretty similar with the rift between Xavier and Lilandra.

    Chastain’s character echoed Mastermind’s method of manipulating Jean.

    The acting of the majority of the cast is pretty good. McAvoy is splendid as always and Sophie Turner was pretty good.

    Mr Hance Zimmer provided an excellent sad and dark soundtrack that echoed the events of the film just perfectly. I did missed the original X-Men theme though.

    The bad stuff…

    It as a pretty grounded version of the seminal story. The whole build up of Jean’s decent to the dark side (otherwise, her Good Phoenix time) is completely disregarded. Just like Spider Man 3 which tried to stuff a gigantic storyline into a two hour movie, this cinematic installment tries to stuff months of character and story development into a single movie.
    You can’t do that. If you want to make this story justice you either…
    a) Make a tv series delicated to this. A tv series with multiple seasons can give the necessary time for the events to unfold propetly.
    b) You take the MCU Thanos approach and make two movies. One delicated to the Phoenix Saga and another final installment delicated to the Dark Phoenix Saga.

    Mystique’s development ever since Days of The Future Past really irritates me. I can’t understand why the X-fans were pissed with Origins Deadpool and they are not pissed with how Mystique was presented in Apocalypse and in this one. Oh, and speaking of mister Saba Nur…

    The movie seems to be completely isolated from the events of both Days AND Apocalypse. It’s like these movies never happened. Where was Moira in this? In the end of Apocalypse it was hinted that she and Xavier were back together.

    Why everyone blamed Xavier for manipulating Jean’s memories so she could forget her father’s rejection of her? He showed her love and caring as a true father would have done. And he was right to make her forget her father because it was her meeting with her father and him practically stamping her as a monster that made her go over the edge.
    I can’t also understand Mystique’s distance from Xavier. She stated that that she didn’t approve sending mutant teenagers to do super hero stuff for human’s sake which I can relate to that judging on how First Class ended but in Apocalypse’s final act, she didn’t had that kind of problems. It was almost like she was jealous of Xavier for taking the credit for forming the X-Men.

    They were also some things that didn’t make sense such as Nightcrawler wearing a space helmet so he can go into the shuttle while Jean didn’t wear anything space related.

    The whole space part of the comic book version was completely disregarded. Apart from the first act, you do not see space at all.

    Chastain was… a weird case. There were parts that I liked her but in the final battle she was… wooden, flat.

    As I said… It is not a good story. It not a disaster either.
    Go and check it out like you would see a b-movie. Go and see it but keep your expectations low and you might, just might actually enjoy it.
    But as acting as a finale to the franchise that practically started the cinematic super hero genre… Yes, I agree 100% that the X-Men deserved much better than this. It should have ended with Logan.

    Well… Now we have to wait for a good amount of time to see the X people again in the silver screen.
    Farewell Fox Cinematic X-universe… and thanks for all the good stuff that you gave us.
    See ya in the MCU!
    Last edited by Minerboh; 06-06-2019 at 03:31 PM.

  6. #1176
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minerboh View Post
    Just got back from viewing and here my thoughts...

    Take into account that these are my personal thoughts. You may disagree but please do so in a polite way.
    I wrote all spoiler material with white letters. Mark the blancs if you want to read them.

    It is a bad film but it is not that unwatchable mess everyone is claiming to be.

    The good parts is that they do focus on the Dark Phoenix material and it is not that weird mish mash that was X-3.

    The elements that compiled the original Dark Phoenix Saga were there. You could see the attempts of the X-Men (some of them anyway) to protect their comrade going against some pretty overwhelming odds just like their comic counterparts did.

    You could see the attempts of some of the X-Men to reach Jean's positive elements and try to persuade her to focus on these elements.

    You could see the tragedy of Jean's succumbing to her ''evil'' side. In the comic, we all know what ''Jean'' did once she went Dark, in this film she kills Saint Mystique.

    This causes a rift among Beast and Xavier pretty similar with the rift between Xavier and Lilandra.

    Chastain’s character echoed Mastermind’s method of manipulating Jean.

    The acting of the majority of the cast is pretty good. McAvoy is splendid as always and Sophie Turner was pretty good.

    Mr Hance Zimmer provided an excellent sad and dark soundtrack that echoed the events of the film just perfectly. I did missed the original X-Men theme though.

    The bad stuff…

    It as a pretty grounded version of the seminal story. The whole build up of Jean’s decent to the dark side (otherwise, her Good Phoenix time) is completely disregarded. Just like Spider Man 3 which tried to stuff a gigantic storyline into a two hour movie, this cinematic installment tries to stuff months of character and story development into a single movie.
    You can’t do that. If you want to make this story justice you either…
    a) Make a tv series delicated to this. A tv series with multiple seasons can give the necessary time for the events to unfold propetly.
    b) You take the MCU Thanos approach and make two movies. One delicated to the Phoenix Saga and another final installment delicated to the Dark Phoenix Saga.

    Mystique’s development ever since Days of The Future Past really irritates me. I can’t understand why the X-fans were pissed with Origins Deadpool and they are not pissed with how Mystique was presented in Apocalypse and in this one. Oh, and speaking of mister Saba Nur…

    The movie seems to be completely isolated from the events of both Days AND Apocalypse. It’s like these movies never happened. Where was Moira in this? In the end of Apocalypse it was hinted that she and Xavier were back together.

    Why everyone blamed Xavier for manipulating Jean’s memories so she could forget her father’s rejection of her? He showed her love and caring as a true father would have done. And he was right to make her forget her father because it was her meeting with her father and him practically stamping her as a monster that made her go over the edge.
    I can’t also understand Mystique’s distance from Xavier. She stated that that she didn’t approve sending mutant teenagers to do super hero stuff for human’s sake which I can relate to that judging on how First Class ended but in Apocalypse’s final act, she didn’t had that kind of problems. It was almost like she was jealous of Xavier for taking the credit for forming the X-Men.

    They were also some things that didn’t make sense such as Nightcrawler wearing a space helmet so he can go into the shuttle while Jean didn’t wear anything space related.

    The whole space part of the comic book version was completely disregarded. Apart from the first act, you do not see space at all.

    Chastain was… a weird case. There were parts that I liked her but in the final battle she was… wooden, flat.

    As I said… It is not a good story. It not a disaster either.
    Go and check it out like you would see a b-movie. Go and see it but keep your expectations low and you might, just might actually enjoy it.
    But as acting as a finale to the franchise that practically started the cinematic super hero genre… Yes, I agree 100% that the X-Men deserved much better than this. It should have ended with Logan.

    Well… Now we have to wait for a good amount of time to see the X people again in the silver screen.
    Farewell Fox Cinematic X-universe… and thanks for all the good stuff that you gave us.
    See ya in the MCU!
    In a way you still can SORT OF consider Logan as the finale of the FOX X-Men universe. Yes, it came out first but at least in terms of the X-Men timeline it was the end of the story. Maybe that's sort of grabbing at straws, but that felt like the end.

  7. #1177
    (Formerly ilash) Ilan Preskovsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    Yeesh, this sounds brutally terrible. Must see!
    It absolutely isn't. But I don't entirely mean that as a defence. There is something to be said for genuinely awful movies. This is just underwhelming beyond words after a solid setup and, ya know, being based on THE X-Men story. It deserves a shrug of the shoulders. Nothing more, nothing less. But for a movie that is supposed to end a franchise that has actually had plenty of high points, that's a really foul note on which to end. Especially just a couple of months after Endgame.
    Check out my blog, Because Everyone Else Has One, for my regularly updated movie reviews.

  8. #1178
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan Preskovsky View Post
    It absolutely isn't. But I don't entirely mean that as a defence. There is something to be said for genuinely awful movies. This is just underwhelming beyond words after a solid setup and, ya know, being based on THE X-Men story. It deserves a shrug of the shoulders. Nothing more, nothing less. But for a movie that is supposed to end a franchise that has actually had plenty of high points, that's a really foul note on which to end. Especially just a couple of months after Endgame.
    So its apocalypse. It's not horrible but also completely forgettable.

  9. #1179
    the devil's reject choptop's Avatar
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    This was better than capten marvel to me.

  10. #1180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    Yeesh, this sounds brutally terrible. Must see!
    The Fantastic Four film from 2015 was an absolutely terrible film. Now, Dark Phoenix is far from being a great movie. But, in its defense, it is still watchable and, at times, entertaining. Not much, but it is something.

  11. #1181
    (Formerly ilash) Ilan Preskovsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    So its apocalypse. It's not horrible but also completely forgettable.
    It's a bit better than Apocolypse as it has a much stronger opening act but otherwise, yeah, pretty much. It's a far cry from First Class but it ain't X-Men: Origins - Wolverine. The cast does a lot of the heavy lifting here, but most especially Sophie Turner who had to make audiences care about a character they had barely met before and whose entire quite involved character arc is rushed through in less than two hours - which, to be fair, I think she does.
    Check out my blog, Because Everyone Else Has One, for my regularly updated movie reviews.

  12. #1182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minerboh View Post
    You could see the tragedy of Jean's succumbing to her ''evil'' side. In the comic, we all know what ''Jean'' did once she went Dark, in this film she kills Saint Mystique.
    That angle, thankfully, Kinberg got right. The film goes out of its way to get the point across that Jean is not to blame and is a victim. The Last Stand did the reverse (which is why this, as has been stated in this thread, is the better Dark Phoenix story, despite being a lesser film.)

    The acting of the majority of the cast is pretty good. McAvoy is splendid as always and Sophie Turner was pretty good.
    McAvoy did bring his A-Game. Actually, out of all the major players across all the films since First Class, he was the one who was genuinely invested in this, I thought. Fassbender was just "there" and Jennifer Lawrence couldn't get out of there quick enough. The younger were pretty good as well (Turner, Sheridan, and Smit-McPhee)

    Mr Hance Zimmer provided an excellent sad and dark soundtrack that echoed the events of the film just perfectly. I did missed the original X-Men theme though.
    I totally forgot he did the score. But, yes, that is another bring spot.

    It as a pretty grounded version of the seminal story. The whole build up of Jean’s decent to the dark side (otherwise, her Good Phoenix time) is completely disregarded. Just like Spider Man 3 which tried to stuff a gigantic storyline into a two hour movie, this cinematic installment tries to stuff months of character and story development into a single movie.
    You can’t do that. If you want to make this story justice you either…
    a) Make a tv series delicated to this. A tv series with multiple seasons can give the necessary time for the events to unfold propetly.
    b) You take the MCU Thanos approach and make two movies. One delicated to the Phoenix Saga and another final installment delicated to the Dark Phoenix Saga.
    Which is why it finished the way it did. I have a feeling that Kinberg had every intention of doing a follow up to this. But, of course, the deal with Disney obviously killed any chance of that happening. So, as it stands, the film is left open ended. They should have capitalized on the reshoots when they had the chance. If only to tie up loose threads and leave it synched up with X-Men 1.

    Besides, you can only do so much with The Dark Phoenix Saga when you don't have all the players to play with or studios with deep pockets. It is a story that could easily fit the runtime of 2 - 3 films. Sadly, they didn't have that luxury with a 2 hour limitation.

    Why everyone blamed Xavier for manipulating Jean’s memories so she could forget her father’s rejection of her? He showed her love and caring as a true father would have done. And he was right [COLOR="#FAEBD7"]to make her forget her father because it was her meeting with her father and him practically stamping her as a monster that made her go over the edge[/COLOR.
    Charles means well. But the guy often betrays his own preachings/morals/ethic by using his powers to violate people's minds. Look at all the times he has done it in the comics. Actions that, more often than not, lead to even bigger problems happening as a result. He was protecting Jean. But it was the shock of learning her spoilers:
    father was alive and his subsequent rejection of her
    end of spoilers that allowed the Phoenix Force to get a foothold and manipulate her. She was a mess emotionally and mentally. Further trauma caused, indirectly, by Charles' lies and secrets. Which he fully acknowledged. But only did so after the shit had hit the fan.

    Just be thankful that they handled that angle the way they did. It could have been worse. Much worse. Such as that time leading up to Onslaught where it was revealed Charles harboured predatory like thoughts towards Jean. Painting him as a paedophile in the process.

    I can’t also understand Mystique’s distance from Xavier. She stated that that she didn’t approve sending mutant teenagers to do super hero stuff for human’s sake which I can relate to that judging on how First Class ended but in Apocalypse’s final act, she didn’t had that kind of problems. It was almost like she was jealous of Xavier for taking the credit for forming the X-Men.
    Raven had no problem with doing the mission or saving the human astronauts. She had a problem with Charles taking risks with the lives of the younger X-Men. It was meant to be a quick "snatch and grab" before the Phoenix Force hit the shuttle. But, with it pretty much on top of them, he sent Jean and Nightcrawler in to grab the commander who was left behind.

    She was annoyed with him. But it only became full on resentment when Charles basically admitted that he was prepared to sacrifice the X-Men in order to maintain the relationship and recognition they enjoyed with mankind at that time. Peaceful co-existence had been achieved. But after a lifetime of hiding, Charles was enjoying the fame and fortune a bit too much. Heck, he was the only one who attended that dinner thrown by the President at the White House.

    They were also some things that didn’t make sense such as Nightcrawler wearing a space helmet so he can go into the shuttle while Jean didn’t wear anything space related.
    The X-Jet wasn't even calibrated for Space. The boosters, obviously, were sufficient enough in acceleration to achieve escape velocity. But what about heat shielding? The X-Men also didn't have any airtight suits or helmets. They should have all died instantly from lack of oxygen. Even when onboard, the astronauts kept their helmets on.
    Last edited by Somecrazyaussie; 06-06-2019 at 09:23 PM.

  13. #1183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan Preskovsky View Post
    It's a bit better than Apocolypse as it has a much stronger opening act but otherwise, yeah, pretty much. It's a far cry from First Class but it ain't X-Men: Origins - Wolverine. The cast does a lot of the heavy lifting here, but most especially Sophie Turner who had to make audiences care about a character they had barely met before and whose entire quite involved character arc is rushed through in less than two hours - which, to be fair, I think she does.
    It is a much better film than Apocalypse in my eyes. I would watch this again. Whereas once was enough for me with Apocalypse.

  14. #1184
    Spectacular Member tkitna's Avatar
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    I'm one of the few people that really liked Apocalypse but I just dont have much interest in this film.

  15. #1185
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    Quote Originally Posted by choptop View Post
    This was better than capten marvel to me.
    Why do you do this?
    “Indifference and neglect often do much more damage than outright dislike.”
    -Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix

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