Dark Phoenix

[Star_Jammer]

Marvel recently put this on YouTube. Obviously because of the movie.

That was pretty neat.

[MaddieGrey]

Apocalypse was meant to be the closing chapter of the old class. So that was never really a valid complaint. And I’m saying that too much attention shouldn’t be given to the Quicksilver and Magneto relationship.

Nothing suggests that Quicksilver has a prominent role as far I as know and J-Law had only spend week of shooting on this film, iirc. Magneto has had a prominent role in the a Phoenix story, he’s the reason why she’s had been dead for nearly 20 years.

It is a valid complaint. Apocalypse was not a closing chapter, despite claiming to be. The old guard didn't pass the torch, arugably thats what Dark Phoenix is doing. As a closing chapter, it needed to set up and develop the in-coming class. End the dominance of the older guard in the narrative. It also needed to be followed by a story about the newer class. I'm not saying Apocalypse needed to about the new class, but properly develop them as a secondary characters who will take over. Use subplots. Thats actually the issue here. The X-films are bad at developing their secondary characters. This plagued the OG trilogy. Wolverine's friends were all cardboard cutouts and I like those movies.

In universe, Magneto and Quicksilver have known each since the 70's and are family. they should some subplot about their family. Similar issue with Mystique. Storm and the rest are Jean's friends and her dark turn will affect them. they should be developed as people (with histories and opinions) who are close to her for this plot to work. It wouldn't take much just fill-in the empty dialogues they have or spread out some of the meaningful moments to other people.

In fairness to authorial/directorial intent, I'm not even getting into the issue that many of these secondary characters should be primary characters. Its an adaptation.

In terms of prominence, I don't care who is primary. Just develop the secondary. Using the argument that 'X happened in the comics so Y' is not a good enough reason for a continued lack of development, especially when the story has already deviated from the source material. Quicksilver is part of the new 5 X-men, whether he is significant is not the issue. Similarly, Mystique is leading the team at the start. Magneto and Genosha aren't involved with the initial Phoenix Sagas.

Also, the comics developed their characters in and around this saga. The movies don't have anything else to fall back on, so Storm and crew need to have developed roles in this.

[MaddieGrey]

Marvel recently put this on YouTube. Obviously because of the movie.

I want this to a cartoon.

[Divine Spark]

It is a valid complaint. Apocalypse was not a closing chapter, despite claiming to be. The old guard didn't pass the torch, arugably thats what Dark Phoenix is doing. As a closing chapter, it needed to set up and develop the in-coming class. End the dominance of the older guard in the narrative. It also needed to be followed by a story about the newer class. I'm not saying Apocalypse needed to about the new class, but properly develop them as a secondary characters who will take over. Use subplots. Thats actually the issue here. The X-films are bad at developing their secondary characters. This plagued the OG trilogy. Wolverine's friends were all cardboard cutouts and I like those movies.

In universe, Magneto and Quicksilver have known each since the 70's and are family. they should some subplot about their family. Similar issue with Mystique. Storm and the rest are Jean's friends and her dark turn will affect them. they should be developed as people (with histories and opinions) who are close to her for this plot to work. It wouldn't take much just fill-in the empty dialogues they have or spread out some of the meaningful moments to other people.

In fairness to authorial/directorial intent, I'm not even getting into the issue that many of these secondary characters should be primary characters. Its an adaptation.

In terms of prominence, I don't care who is primary. Just develop the secondary. Using the argument that 'X happened in the comics so Y' is not a good enough reason for a continued lack of development, especially when the story has already deviated from the source material. Quicksilver is part of the new 5 X-men, whether he is significant is not the issue. Similarly, Mystique is leading the team at the start. Magneto and Genosha aren't involved with the initial Phoenix Sagas.

Also, the comics developed their characters in and around this saga. The movies don't have anything else to fall back on, so Storm and crew need to have developed roles in this.

That’s not really what Dark Phoenix is doing according to Kinberg. In an a collider interview he pretty much said that its Jean Grey stand-alone film and compared it to how Logan was a Wolverine stand-alone films. Saying that’s the reason why it’s not titled X-Men: Dark Phoenix(except internationally).

You can say that other characters were cardband in X1 but that’s not the case in X2 and X3. Those sequels did have subplots with other characters for better or worse. Rogue and Bobby’s relationship, the Pryor storyline, Nightcrawler and Storm’s relationship, etc. But for a stand-alone film there shouldn’t be subplots that detract from the title character like the Quicksilver-Magneto storyline.

[MaddieGrey]

That’s not really what Dark Phoenix is doing according to Kinberg. In an a collider interview he pretty much said that its Jean Grey stand-alone film and compared it to how Logan was a Wolverine stand-alone films. Saying that’s the reason why it’s not titled X-Men: Dark Phoenix(except internationally).

You can say that other characters were cardband in X2 but that’s not the case in X2 and X3. Those sequels did have subplots with other characters for better or worse. Rogue and Bobby’s relationship, the Pryor storyline, Nightcrawler and Storm’s relationship, etc. But for a stand-alone film there shouldn’t be subplots that detract from the title character like the Quicksilver-Magneto storyline.

Actually, the Logan and X2 comparisons bollster my point. Kinberg wants this movie to be more character driven ala Logan. Logan was the star and his story was the A-plot, but the others were built up around him in B-plot moments, meaningful dialogue, character growth etc. They also had reasons for acting outside of the plot says so. His relationship with Xavier was built up over the years of the X-films and his relationship to the others in the movie gets weight. X-23 is dynamic. They fleshed out his world and added to his story as a result. I'm hoping thats what he wants to do with the Dark Phoenix.

X2 reigns as one of the best X-men films because it did this as you point out and, if we were only talking about X2, I'd agree with you. I look to X2 (as well as other Marvel and well-received Fox movies) as a "how-to" do subplots and secondary character growth right in Dark Phoenix. The problem is that it is the middle of three movies and then followed-up in Days of Future Past. Outside of X2, these movies don't add to the characters' personality or development. This leaves them feeling flat overall.

Storm has a few lines in the first two movies that hint at something and she has a great rapport with Nightcrawler, but all of that connection is only used in the end of X2 to get them to face the villian in the end. There aren't any real moments in X3 or DoFP for her. Pyro's story starts and ends in X2. His role is just to be a Magneto follower in X3. There isn't anything else there. Rogue and Bobby had the best 'development' of all the characters. Their romance started in X1, built up in X2 and there was a change in X3. Its a simple teen romance plot. Outside of their romance, there are hints at something more, however by DoFP, they're as flat as the newbies the movie added. I, and many others, can do this (and more) with all of the core characters on the team the movies present. The X-characters aren't dynamic, their speech and many interactions are hollow, they have fleeting moments that are dropped, etc.

They have examples in their own film line on how to do this. With Jean possibly being an orphan/abandoned, they can bond over their family drama and how it made them closer. Actually, since the team can't blast Phoenix into submission, they could use character development as a way to reach her (outside of her romance with Scott).

[Raiders]

R.I.P. Mr. Stan Lee

[MaddieGrey]

Jessica Chastain, Sophie Turner and Simon Kinberg will be at CCXP (Comic Con Experience) 2018 in Brazil Dec 7.

[juan678]

[juan678]

Repost Kinsberg today

[juan678]

Alexandra Shipp new Selfie Storm Today

[Phoenixx9]

So...any new movie news?

[SpiderClops]

So...any new movie news?

Nope.

Except that Stan lee won't have a cameo in it.

[Star_Jammer]

Nope.

Except that Stan lee won't have a cameo in it.

Stan missed a few X-related film cameos due to scheduling conflicts.

[Phoenixx9]

Nope.

Except that Stan lee won't have a cameo in it.

True. " 'Nuff Said."

[ChrisIII]

Yeah, definitely seems she'll have some kind of role akin to Mastermind in the original storyline, although probably without those weird "Time" trips. Plus we've already done the Hellfire club at the beginning of the FC series.