Is there beef between Wonder Woman and Supergirl fans?

[SiegePerilous02]

Do note that I evaluated actual responses in the Superman forum; you can read for yourself, just follow the reference in the quote.

Yes, and you'll see that I actually read and responded to your post in that forum. You included some of my quotes as "crapping" on Supergirl, and I took issue with that because it wasn't that simple as you were making it.

Would Wonder Woman fans have the "EXACT SAME reaction" to that though? For one, Diana fans are usually very fond of Donna, far more than Clark fans are of Kara. Secondly, some WW fans would actively welcome Circe being assigned to Donna as there is a slight aversion to "public domain villains" fighting Diana herself.

If Diana was shelved for the foreseeable after a half assed "trilogy" that she had to share with a ton of guest stars, and Donna was given all her stuff and pre-dated her in-universe, I am very doubtful whatever fondness the WW fandom has for Donna would prevent them from being annoyed at the situation, if not the character herself. Do Wonder Woman fans in general like Donna more than Superman fans like Kara? Donna spends most of her time in the Titans franchise and her ties to WW are tenuous at best most of the time, how many WW fans actually consider her to be essential?

The fans who have a slight aversion to her fighting public domain villains may not be as numerous as you think. And since Wonder Woman has even fewer big name villains who can carry a film than Superman does, giving one of her arch enemies to the spin off character with no immediate plans for Diana herself to confront said nemesis would not go over well at all. There is already some backlash to changing the story to be set during WWI and the demigod origin in place after all, and those are relatively minor compared to a sidekick being the predecessor.

Superman has had 6 solo cinematic movies, two other theatrical appearances, and countless television shows and other media appearances. One franchise where Supergirl predates him shouldn't bring about so much doom and gloom.

Wonder Woman pre-dating him in-universe as she does now is a non issue. Ditto Batman. Because they are independent characters that have nothing to do with his mythos. Kara is a spin off character and always has been. She didn't exist until two decades after Clark, and the logo is slapped onto her to carry her to success and expand the franchise.

DCEU Batman wasn't any more readily embraced than DCEU Superman, and Batman has had more cinematic outings than Superman. More cartoons and video games too. Do you think WB is seriously thinking of shelving Bruce and having Batgirl set in the 70s and Barbara donning the cowl before the Waynes are murdered?

[Confuzzled]

If Diana was shelved for the foreseeable after a half assed "trilogy"...

Again, Clark Kent has already had a TON more media exposure than Diana before the DCEU. So that equivalency in itself starts off on a false note as Wonder Woman didn't quite enjoy so many adaptations as Superman. If Wondy had as much exposure as Supes, then I don't really see Diana fans caring much if Donna predated her in one movie franchise.

Do Wonder Woman fans in general like Donna more than Superman fans like Kara? Donna spends most of her time in the Titans franchise and her ties to WW are tenuous at best most of the time, how many WW fans actually consider her to be essential?

WW fans have been far more vocal in wanting to see Donna utilized more and making her a more integral part of Diana and the Amazons' lives than Clark fans do for Kara.

Also, this may be generalizing but the overall makeup of the Wonder Woman fandom tends to see Donna as an awesome little sister/legacy carrier while the Superman fandom sees Kara as Superman but as a hot blonde girl. That differing perspective towards the two characters changes the entire dynamic. Donna even without/in lieu of Diana is seen as part of the legacy and sisterhood by WW fandom, while Kara in place of Clark is seen as a replacement for self-insert male fantasy character by Superman fandom.

The fans who have a slight aversion to her fighting public domain villains may not be as numerous as you think. And since Wonder Woman has even fewer big name villains who can carry a film than Superman does, giving one of her arch enemies to the spin off character with no immediate plans for Diana herself to confront said nemesis would not go over well at all.

Really, I seriously, seriously doubt people are going to care that much if Circe tussles with Donna before Diana.

There is already some backlash to changing the story to be set during WWI and the demigod origin in place after all, and those are relatively minor compared to a sidekick being the predecessor.

No. The Zeus criticisms come from a very understandable POV of a patriarchal narrative being forced onto a symbol of female self-sustainability. Donna predating Diana is nowhere near as problematic.

Do you think WB is seriously thinking of shelving Bruce and having Batgirl set in the 70s and Barbara donning the cowl before the Waynes are murdered?

They may have if Batman had been played in the DCEU by an actor of Henry Cavill's age and then he started demanding more money before proving himself. With Batfleck, they had a convenient out of going with a flashback/younger version. It's still probable that a Batgirl movie will end up preceding a Nightwing movie. And Cassandra Cain will appear before both Barbara and Dick in Birds of Prey.

[kjn]

The fans who have a slight aversion to her fighting public domain villains may not be as numerous as you think. And since Wonder Woman has even fewer big name villains who can carry a film than Superman does, giving one of her arch enemies to the spin off character with no immediate plans for Diana herself to confront said nemesis would not go over well at all. There is already some backlash to changing the story to be set during WWI and the demigod origin in place after all, and those are relatively minor compared to a sidekick being the predecessor.

Backlash over the movie set in the First World War?

[SiegePerilous02]

Again, Clark Kent has already had a TON more media exposure than Diana before the DCEU. So that equivalency in itself starts off on a false note as Wonder Woman didn't quite enjoy so many adaptations as Superman. If Wondy had as much exposure as Supes, then I don't really see Diana fans caring much if Donna predated her in one movie franchise.

Yes, but how much of that media, at least in terms of films, is actually good? The last film he had that wasn't divisive or considered terrible was released back in 1980. Superman fans may not care if one movie franchise has Kara pre-date Clark if all the other film franchises had worked out. But after III, IV, Returns, MOS, BvS and JL, WB possibly just using everything related to the character to make money but not the character himself is pretty annoying, so this is where we're at.

Wonder Woman may have had only one film so far, but it's a hit. Shame on them for waiting so long to give the character a chance, but quality over quantity. At least she doesn't have something like Quest for Peace in her adaptations (yet).

WW fans have been far more vocal in wanting to see Donna utilized more and making her a more integral part of Diana and the Amazons' lives than Clark fans do for Kara.

Not to the point of (possibly) making her the lead face of the franchise they don't. And Clark fans don't have to be vocal about considering Kara an integral part of the Superman mythos because she already is. it speaks for itself. Donna was created largely by accident in the pages of Teen Titans and has historically been featured over there far more than in the pages of WW. And that's before we get into the numerous reboots that have played havoc with their connection.

And if you go over to the Superman boards, you will see plenty of comments about fans being happy to see Clark and Kara interacting heavily again in the Rebirth run, so I'm not getting where you think Superman fans aren't eager to see Kara as part of the mythos, or that people don't want to see their familial connection.

Also, this may be generalizing but the overall makeup of the Wonder Woman fandom tends to see Donna as an awesome little sister/legacy carrier while the Superman fandom sees Kara as Superman but as a hot blonde girl. That differing perspective towards the two characters changes the entire dynamic. Donna even without/in lieu of Diana is seen as part of the legacy and sisterhood by WW fandom, while Kara in place of Clark is seen as a replacement for self-insert male fantasy character by Superman fandom.

Again, as much as the WW fandom may love Donna, I don't know that they love her THAT much that they want the legacy aspect to actually become a thing. The awesome little sister thing I will give you, and I and many others would be happy to see her in the films and corrected in the comics. But becoming Wonder Woman II, at least on a permanent basis? Nah I don't think so.

Really, I seriously, seriously doubt people are going to care that much if Circe tussles with Donna before Diana.

How about Donna tussling with Circe and then no immediate plans to have Diana herself confront her? In addition to Circe never being adapted to the big screen before that? I think people would care. Maybe not after if the film ends up being good, but there would definitely be some vocal criticisms beforehand. Circe's a bigger deal than I think your giving her credit for, she's not someone you throw at the part time sidekick for her first movie outing.

And was the anti-public domain crowd upset about her fighting Ares in her origin film, or was that treated as pretty much a given? Who else would she be fighting? She pretty much just as Ares, Cheetah and Circe as the main villains for movie consideration.

They may have if Batman had been played in the DCEU by an actor of Henry Cavill's age and then he started demanding more money before proving himself.

It's Batman. They absolutely wouldn't, and you know it.
We don't know how much Cavill was asking for or how much creative control he wanted. The former may very well have been very foolish of him, but in light of how WB has jerked him and the character around and not generated any faith, him having more of the latter couldn't possibly be worse than what we've gotten so far. And whatever is going on with Cavill is no excuse for taking it out on the character.

With Batfleck, they had a convenient out of going with a flashback/younger version. It's still probable that a Batgirl movie will end up preceding a Nightwing movie. And Cassandra Cain will appear before both Barbara and Dick in Birds of Prey.

Cass won't necessarily be debuting as Batgirl though, so Barbara would get there first. A Batgirl movie coming out before Nightwing also doesn't mean she would precede Dick's role as Batman first partner in-universe either.
And even if Cass debuted as Batgirl, and they put her out there before the new Batman is cast, they wouldn't be having her debut in-universe before Batman himself. But then Batman has had numerous other media outings, so maybe the Batman fandom won't mind if they do? But I'm not holding my breath for it.

Backlash over the movie set in the First World War?

Maybe not as much now, but pre-release? When people were concerned that Diana wasn't active in the present day, and then it came along with the "I walked away from humanity 100 years ago" line? Yeah there were concerns. Same with the lack of Amazon tech, the (initial?) lack of flight and demigod origin, even though the latter wasn't executed the same was as the comics. Check out any of the threads in this forum, there were criticisms of all of that even if all of it had precedence in the source material. All of it leading to less crappy/headache inducing results than the source material that had Donna predate Wonder Woman and the utter mess it made of her since then.

[My Two Cents]

Hickory, dickory, dock.
The mouse ran up the clock.
The clock struck one,
The mouse ran down,
Hickory, dickory, dock.

[MajorHoy]

Hickory, dickory, dock.
The mouse ran up the clock.
The clock struck one,
The mouse ran down,
Hickory, dickory, dock.

Is that suppose to be a plug for Doomsday Clock?

[kjn]

Maybe not as much now, but pre-release? When people were concerned that Diana wasn't active in the present day, and then it came along with the "I walked away from humanity 100 years ago" line? Yeah there were concerns. Yeah there were concerns. Same with the lack of Amazon tech, the (initial?) lack of flight and demigod origin, even though the latter wasn't executed the same was as the comics. Check out any of the threads in this forum, there were criticisms of all of that even if all of it had precedence in the source material. All of it leading to less crappy/headache inducing results than the source material that had Donna predate Wonder Woman and the utter mess it made of her since then

Concerns are not backlash, and a lot of the things you mentioned had already been introduced by Pérez and Azzarello. Note also that those complaining about "lack of flying" got called out on their behaviour, for at least as long as I've been around here.

[Jackalope89]

Never seen anyone the least bit salty between the WW and SG fandoms, and in the comics, Diana is often a mentor to Kara anyway.

[greymoon]

Backlash over the movie set in the First World War?

Maybe because it’s not her actual origin? There is something called comicbook accuracy.

[chongjasmine]

I am a wonder woman fan, who had no problem with supergirl.

[starlight25]

I feel like Wonder Woman and her hardcore fans get jealous cause Supergirl is younger, hotter, and more powerful.

I can already see fan wars if the Supergirl movie is a huge success cause they will claim Supergirl stole their thunder.

Is there any truth to this?

I have never seen Wonder Woman fans bashing Supergirl. I think both fanbases are in good terms. But one thing i'd like to clarify. Supergirl is not more powerful than Wonder Woman.

[RealWonderman]

Diana has been immortal and ageless since about 18 yo, so not sure about this "younger hotter" EYEROLL

I love both. Wonder Woman IS MY #1, but Supergirl is my #2. That's the team up comic, team up move, etc I want to see (now that we're getting a full on Donna Troy Wonder Girl in TITANS.)

[Jackalope89]

Diana has been immortal and ageless since about 18 yo, so not sure about this "younger hotter" EYEROLL

I love both. Wonder Woman IS MY #1, but Supergirl is my #2. That's the team up comic, team up move, etc I want to see (now that we're getting a full on Donna Troy Wonder Girl in TITANS.)

Would be hard to see a DC world with multiple heroes, including the Bat Family, Wonder Family, Titans, etc, but no Super family. Probably could just do the whole "Kara crashes into Earth long after baby cousin Kal arrived" thing.

[marhawkman]

I love watching Amazon vs Kryptonian fights.