Sometimes You Need People on the Outside: The Outsiders Appreciation Thread 2018

[ShinySephiroth]

So I'm trying to figure out where Black Files fits into continuity - did Katana leave the Suicide Squad? If so to be in The Outsiders, when did she leave?

[lemonpeace]

So I'm trying to figure out where Black Files fits into continuity - did Katana leave the Suicide Squad? If so to be in The Outsiders, when did she leave?

I imagine this takes place before she joined Outsiders. The Outsiders formed in Tec but I wouldn't consider them active until their book hits. Also since Black Files picks up plot threads from Most Wanted, I think it takes place not too far after that. That's just my speculation though.

[ShinySephiroth]

Okay, I'm trying to piece things together, so thank you! I looked into Suicide Squad Most Wanted and only found what looks to be a 2016 comic about Deadshot and Katana. Is that it? And did Katana leave Suicide Squad recently? If so, which issue(s)?

I hope I'm not being too annoying... thank you so much for your help so far!

[lemonpeace]

Okay, I'm trying to piece things together, so thank you! I looked into Suicide Squad Most Wanted and only found what looks to be a 2016 comic about Deadshot and Katana. Is that it? And did Katana leave Suicide Squad recently? If so, which issue(s)?

I hope I'm not being too annoying... thank you so much for your help so far!

Yeah, that's the one. I don't think she's been shown leaving the suicide squad but, then again, I don't read suicide squad often so i could be wrong. If him going off Black Files, it implies she's employed by the Waller to be on the squad so I think she may still be on it but can just come and go as she pleases (more or less).

[lemonpeace]

https://www.cbr.com/batman-outsiders...ve-comics/amp/

Found this, seems like a stretch but wanted to get you guys' thoughts

[Korath]

I'm not sure that the Outsiders will have so many Bat-characters, three is already enough. I would vastly prefer either returning Outsiders, or new characters built up and integrated into the team over time.

[Konja7]

I'm not sure that the Outsiders will have so many Bat-characters, three is already enough. I would vastly prefer either returning Outsiders, or new characters built up and integrated into the team over time.

They seem to put Bat-characters (without a solo) in this new "Batman and the Outsiders". So, I wouldn't be surprised if they put Batwoman at some point.

[lemonpeace]

I'm not sure that the Outsiders will have so many Bat-characters, three is already enough. I would vastly prefer either returning Outsiders, or new characters built up and integrated into the team over time.

I 100% agree with this sentiment. If they were going to load up the team with Bat-characters, they should have just made the Gotham Knights from 'Tec into it's own title. If they do go that direction (I think the article is reading too much into it so I doubt they will) my interest for this book will go down a bit.

[Konja7]

I 100% agree with this sentiment. If they were going to load up the team with Bat-characters, they should have just made the Gotham Knights from 'Tec into it's own title. If they do go that direction (I think the article is reading too much into it so I doubt they will) my interest for this book will go down a bit.

Why your interest will go down a bit?

I mean even if they add Batwoman (I doubt it would happen), that would be just another character on the comic.

[lemonpeace]

Why your interest will go down a bit?

I mean even if they add Batwoman (I doubt it would happen), that would be just another character on the comic.

It betrays the spirit of the team for me. The Outsiders, generally, have been a collective of distinct individuals with diverse backgrounds and skills. They are already stretching it by having two of Batman's sidekicks (because DC doesn't believe in letting these characters grow outside of Batman's shadow) and Batman on the team. This could've been a chance to move Cass and Duke further into DC universe by having them interact with non-bat characters; if they turn this into a batfamily team it feels antithetical to their progress. Again, if they wanted a batfamily team they could have just made the Gotham Knights from Tynion's run into a team title and just add Duke.

[Konja7]

It betrays the spirit of the team for me. The Outsiders, generally, have been a collective of distinct individuals with diverse backgrounds and skills. They are already stretching it by having two of Batman's sidekicks (because DC doesn't believe in letting these characters grow outside of Batman's shadow) and Batman on the team. This could've been a chance to move Cass and Duke further into DC universe by having them interact with non-bat characters; if they turn this into a batfamily team it feels antithetical to their progress. Again, if they wanted a batfamily team they could have just made the Gotham Knights from Tynion's run into a team title and just add Duke.

The problem is that they probably need Batman, because the title Outsiders doesn't seem profitable enough

I don't know a lot about Outsiders, but I know there was an Outsiders comic before New 52. Its sales doesn't look good.


I really doubt DC plans to move Cass and Duke further in the DC Universe. If that was their plan, DC would put them on a comic without Batman.

[Aahz]

At least in Dukes case they should first develop him more inside the Batfamily and as a solo character (without constantly changing the direction) before they "move him further into DC universe".

Tim and Damian were both arround for roughly 10 years (in which they had a lot of regular appaerences) before they were put on a team book. For Duke who is apparently still in training, joining the outsiders feels still way to early.

But I also doubt that they put Batwoman and Batgirl on the team.

[lemonpeace]

The problem is that they probably need Batman, because the title Outsiders doesn't seem profitable enough

I don't know a lot about Outsiders, but I know there was an Outsiders comic before New 52. Its sales doesn't look good.


I really doubt DC plans to move Cass and Duke further in the DC Universe. If that was their plan, DC would put them on a comic without Batman.

That's why I'm saying it's stretching it right now but it doesn't break the concept, yet. Batman has always been used to push the Outsiders, and from my understanding, they generally end up breaking away or Batsy plays less of a role over time. Cass and Duke have distinct enough abilities and backgrounds that it can pass with them on the team. Hell, Duke was billed as being "Batman getting in on the ground floor of a new hero" despite his costume design. However, he and Cass are still 100% bats and throwing in more bats makes a team that's already more than half bat characters (which is due mainly to it's small size) into an almost entirely bat-centric team, which would be a step too far for me. If they want to add new members, they should create new ones in the title, add from the larger universe, or bring in old members.

As for them DC not moving them into the DC universe, the existence of this book kind of contradicts that. The arc in Detective, from which this book spins out of, shows that the threats they will be taking on will be from all over the world. Them being on a team with characters from different parts of the DC landscape, facing threats from all over is an already pretty overt move into the DC universe. The only way they could undercut it would be if they straight up made this into another bat-team book.

At least in Dukes case they should first develop him more inside the Batfamily and as a solo character (without constantly changing the direction) before they "move him further into DC universe".

Tim and Damian were both arround for roughly 10 years (in which they had a lot of regular appaerences) before they were put on a team book. For Duke who is apparently still in training, joining the outsiders feels still way to early.

But I also doubt that they put Batwoman and Batgirl on the team.

But I feel that's the mentality that's held him back up to this point. With Duke, DC has refused to really double down on him as Batman's partner in the same way Tim or Damian has and, after reading his ultra-miniseries, it appears they don't have any intention of doing that. The only thing they've been consistent is that they want him Batman adjacent but, as you pointed out, whereas Tim and Damian had regular appearances in those 10 years before they went on to head up a team, Duke is usually relegated to random cameos and short burst of "importance" for a majority of his career. If having him kept so close to the bat-vest were actually developing Duke, I would agree that keeping him off a team would probably be best for a while longer. Putting him on a team now could give him a regular slot to call home and act, thus a chance to actually grow. From there then maybe he can head up a team like the other Robins (even though he's not a Robin) have done.

[Aahz]

Apparently Outsiders was pushed back several month.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/11...man-outsiders/

[Aahz]

But I feel that's the mentality that's held him back up to this point. With Duke, DC has refused to really double down on him as Batman's partner in the same way Tim or Damian has and, after reading his ultra-miniseries, it appears they don't have any intention of doing that. The only thing they've been consistent is that they want him Batman adjacent but, as you pointed out, whereas Tim and Damian had regular appearances in those 10 years before they went on to head up a team, Duke is usually relegated to random cameos and short burst of "importance" for a majority of his career. If having him kept so close to the bat-vest were actually developing Duke, I would agree that keeping him off a team would probably be best for a while longer. Putting him on a team now could give him a regular slot to call home and act, thus a chance to actually grow. From there then maybe he can head up a team like the other Robins (even though he's not a Robin) have done.

Imo DC and the Batoffice have either to commit to establishing Duke as a part of the Batmythos, or they can just retire him.
The chances that Outsiders will do much for him are imo pretty minimal.