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Thread: Invaders (2019)

  1. #541
    Mighty Member Glio's Avatar
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    Am I the only one who thought "terrigen" with this?

  2. #542
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    Was Tony Stark in this issue like he was last issue? Any help is appreciated.
    " I've learned that free will isn't a gift-it's muscle that needs to be exercised-and only when it's in peak condition-is a man truly awake" TONY STARK

  3. #543
    Extraordinary Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    Am I the only one who thought "terrigen" with this?
    I did for a second before the reveal. There's also an Aquaman story (I think it was called American Tidal) that has a similar premise of people turning into Atlanteans. Although it's not the concept it's what one does with it that matters. It feels that Namor has quite possibly gone too far here.
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  4. #544
    Mighty Member pageturner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
    Was Tony Stark in this issue like he was last issue? Any help is appreciated.
    yes he and the Avengers are called in. Although on Cap Marvel and Tony do much.

  5. #545
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageturner View Post
    yes he and the Avengers are called in. Although on Cap Marvel and Tony do much.
    Him and Carol do a lot you mean?
    " I've learned that free will isn't a gift-it's muscle that needs to be exercised-and only when it's in peak condition-is a man truly awake" TONY STARK

  6. #546
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    Am I the only one who thought "terrigen" with this?
    Unlike the mists, which were known to be deadly to mutants, Namor, other than those who tried to stop him and were killed by Roman, wasn't out to do genocide. Not saying he didn't cross a line because he did and he has experience with Dr Hydro and people being turned against their will. So Namor did go too far, but I'm waiting to see how much of this was his own actions and how much of this was influenced by Machan/Tommy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
    Was Tony Stark in this issue like he was last issue? Any help is appreciated.
    Short summary under the spoiler

    spoilers:
    Cap finds the people have turned into water breathers, and tells Tony who was flying in with the other Avengers to help them get water, meanwhile Tony is saying 'I told you steve, where is namor?' and steve tells him that he needs to help the people before they die frist then worry about Namor, and tony sees Namor raising a wall of water and tried to attack him but was stopped by carol who points out that Namor isnt trying to kill the people, he is trying to save them from suffocating in air and Namor floods the place saving them from dying. Meanwhile Steve uses his motorcycle to get back to Nay Peterson who was alone when the chemical bomb hit, and she was dying, steve jumps into the ocean with her to save her. Tony shows up again at the end and is shown fixing Jim's head, and talking to bucky who was asking about steve and how he can't find him. Tony says Steve has a lot to answer for but Carol told him Steve was going off the grid, Bucky says that Steve was trying to do the right thing and that they would get Namor.
    end of spoilers

    From the last few pages I theorize that:

    spoilers:
    that Tony may try to turn Jim into a weapon as he rebuilds his body, a weapon that could be used against the Invaders and Namor. This wouldn't be first time Jim was used in this manner and its something Jim hates, to be used as a weapon. that is just my theory though
    end of spoilers

    Tony about fly into the bomb site in Invaders:



    also Tony being stopped by carol:

    invaders6.jpg
    Last edited by ImperiusWrecked; 06-12-2019 at 09:19 PM.
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  7. #547
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Unlike the mists, which were known to be deadly to mutants, Namor, other than those who tried to stop him and were killed by Roman, wasn't out to do genocide. Not saying he didn't cross a line because he did and he has experience with Dr Hydro and people being turned against their will. So Namor did go too far, but I'm waiting to see how much of this was his own actions and how much of this was influenced by Machan/Tommy.



    Short summary under the spoiler

    spoilers:
    Cap finds the people have turned into water breathers, and tells Tony who was flying in with the other Avengers to help them get water, meanwhile Tony is saying 'I told you steve, where is namor?' and steve tells him that he needs to help the people before they die frist then worry about Namor, and tony sees Namor raising a wall of water and tried to attack him but was stopped by carol who points out that Namor isnt trying to kill the people, he is trying to save them from suffocating in air and Namor floods the place saving them from dying. Meanwhile Steve uses his motorcycle to get back to Nay Peterson who was alone when the chemical bomb hit, and she was dying, steve jumps into the ocean with her to save her. Tony shows up again at the end and is shown fixing Jim's head, and talking to bucky who was asking about steve and how he can't find him. Tony says Steve has a lot to answer for but Carol told him Steve was going off the grid, Bucky says that Steve was trying to do the right thing and that they would get Namor.
    end of spoilers

    From the last few pages I theorize that:

    spoilers:
    that Tony may try to turn Jim into a weapon as he rebuilds his body, a weapon that could be used against the Invaders and Namor. This wouldn't be first time Jim was used in this manner and its something Jim hates, to be used as a weapon. that is just my theory though
    end of spoilers

    Tony about fly into the bomb site in Invaders:



    also Tony being stopped by carol:

    invaders6.jpg
    WOW! Thanks. Your help is appreciated.
    Last edited by Tony Stark; 06-13-2019 at 01:35 AM.
    " I've learned that free will isn't a gift-it's muscle that needs to be exercised-and only when it's in peak condition-is a man truly awake" TONY STARK

  8. #548
    Extraordinary Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Unlike the mists, which were known to be deadly to mutants, Namor, other than those who tried to stop him and were killed by Roman, wasn't out to do genocide. Not saying he didn't cross a line because he did and he has experience with Dr Hydro and people being turned against their will. So Namor did go too far, but I'm waiting to see how much of this was his own actions and how much of this was influenced by Machan/Tommy.
    Black Bolt wasn't out to do genocide either, so that's an odd statement. The difference here is it isn't transforming Inhumans, it's transforming everyone and, if they're not near water, they'll die.
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  9. #549
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    I was also totally thinking about the Dr Hydro arc too! I really don't think this is something Namor would have done in his right mind but he is being influenced by Machan/Tommy so I have to consider that.
    I'm really not all that keen on the Namor's crazy idea, BUT I am happy to see someone deal with what Namor's gone through. Even though Zdarsky doesn't reference it directly, I think the whole Phoenix possession thing and the mental meat grinder that Hickman put Namor through is being dealt with obliquely. I'd feel better about it if Zdarsky did mention Machan's recent resurgence being due to that mess.

    But I still say the Dr. Hydro idea is a bit too far. This is why we need Namor's supporting cast around. Nita would suss immediately that this wasn't Namor, given she was also gassed by Dr. Hydro.



    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    Am I the only one who thought "terrigen" with this?
    Not me, but as a Namor fan, I was immediately reminded of Dr. Hydro. Also, Terrigen is random and doesn't deliver only one transformative effect.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Murdock View Post
    I did for a second before the reveal. There's also an Aquaman story (I think it was called American Tidal) that has a similar premise of people turning into Atlanteans. Although it's not the concept it's what one does with it that matters. It feels that Namor has quite possibly gone too far here.
    I don't care for it either, and it isn't something Namor would do in his right mind, i.e. see the Dr. Hydro arc. Not only is the forced transformation wrong, but Namor KNOWS this isn't going to bring about peace, because he said his own people weren't going to be accepting of the transformed amphibians from the Dr. Hydro arc. Granted, the Hydro amphibians looked completely different from the Atlanteans. But culturally, the transformed air breathers here are going to be too different.



    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Unlike the mists, which were known to be deadly to mutants, Namor, other than those who tried to stop him and were killed by Roman, wasn't out to do genocide. Not saying he didn't cross a line because he did and he has experience with Dr Hydro and people being turned against their will. So Namor did go too far, but I'm waiting to see how much of this was his own actions and how much of this was influenced by Machan/Tommy.
    Namor wasn't trying to kill off the air breathers, but he certainly was trying to eradicate their culture and force them to assimilate into Atlanteans culture. And there was also the human looking Atlanteans who sacrificed themselves. I didn't care for that at all and again, didn't sound like something Namor would normally do. Plus, why couldn't they transform back? Like all the other Atlanteans that have been spying on the surface?


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Murdock View Post
    Black Bolt wasn't out to do genocide either, so that's an odd statement. The difference here is it isn't transforming Inhumans, it's transforming everyone and, if they're not near water, they'll die.
    It transformed people who didn't know they were Inhumans, and were perfectly happy NOT to be Inhumans, against their will -- which is basically what Namor did. And he was making sure they were near water. Arguably, considering he and Roman were waiting for Cap and Nae, he was bringing the water to Nae too.
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  10. #550
    Extraordinary Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    I'm not saying the transformation was justified, just that it wasn't deliberate genocide (as claimed) and that it also didn't have as high a chance of asphyxiation compared to Namor's plan.
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  11. #551
    Amazing Member Coatl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Murdock View Post
    I'm not saying the transformation was justified, just that it wasn't deliberate genocide (as claimed) and that it also didn't have as high a chance of asphyxiation compared to Namor's plan.
    Well I don't want to get too deep in that theme since is outside the focus of this post, buuut, they were eliminating a particular group with a gas weapon (you see the relation here), yes originally wasn't designed to do it still, after years of seeing the nocive effects of the mists in regular human and mutants shouldn't really be a surprise dan even betwen inhumans was supposed to be a very dangerous procediment that only a few were allowed. But once it was revealed that it will, they did nothing to stop it, (also killed the person who tried to stopped the menace, and tarnished his memory putting him as the aggressor and they as the victims in the public eye) then it becomes genocide attempt, since they were aware of the consequences that their untested weapon did over a specific group.

    Namor other hand has been working in serums able to turn humans in water breathers for years (and atlanteans in air breathers) and even so, they doesn't go full planet scale but over a small country, (who he is planning to preserve alive) as some kind of test place. Yes he crossed a line unwillingness modificating human bodies who could or couldn't want to be changed (as Black bolt did), and there some amount of risk of asphyxiation, (but he really didn't last too long between releasing the bomb and sinking the town so is small) still sterilization and death are not among the secondary effects.

  12. #552
    Extraordinary Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    They weren't targeting a group at all. They actually didn't kill the person who tried to stop it since the person who tried to stop it was Emma Frost who is still alive.

    Did Namor work on this serum for years? Is this some previous story or something I missed here?
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  13. #553
    Genesis of A Nemesis Things Fall Apart's Avatar
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    The terrigen poisoning thing was also a retcon. The X-Men operated in it fine until after Secret Wars when Marvel decided it was poisonous to mutants.
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  14. #554
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Whether or not Black Bolt meant it as a genocide doesn't matter when you see the results, it's what that became in the end. He may not have meant for the mutants to die but they did. iirc In Quicksilver's solo, Son of M, Quicksilver exposed mutants to the mists, then later he went to M Town and continued to use them on mutants, some died as a result, or it went badly (i cant remember which bc it's been years since I read it). So Black Bolt, who knew Quicksilver had done this, because he caught up with him later, BB knew there was a risk, but pushed forwards anyways. To be honest, IvX was a trash event, most of it being due to Marvel's powers that be trying to replace the Inhumans as the X-Men and trying to push that brand. They tried to make it another civil war, or AvX, but it didn't work. However I don't want to turn this into an Inhuman Thread, so I'm done with this subject.

    Was Namor right? Hell no. I'm not going to defend him changing people against their will, but I am waiting for more of the story to see how this plays out. Zdarsky said he didn't want to write Namor as a villain story, so I'm hoping he keeps to that.

    As for Namor working on this serum for years, it was implied he was working on something, after he came back to Maine when Roman was older, he and Roman were standing on a cliff side talking, he could have been secretly working on this, also it would have taken years for Roman to become an officer and have just the right position to be there when Namor finally put his plan into action. We know the Atlanteans have different methods that allow them to pass on land as human, pill, chemicals/serums, water masks. Making it permanent or making it able to be used in reverse to make humans able to breathe underwater wouldn't have been too hard. People forget that the Atlanteans are a highly advanced race with advanced science and weaponry.

    Another thing why I think this would be ooc for Namor to do if he was in his right mind, is Betty Dean, she had been changed by Dr. Hydro and Namor was not on board with people being changed against their will. This isn't something he would do imo unless he was being pushed to or influenced to do so. Also when Loa's body changed permanently to where she had to stay in the water to survive, Namor was the one to break the news to her, he knew it would be hard for her to accept.
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  15. #555
    Spectacular Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Wonder if Silver Scorpion will show up again, like how she did in volume 2.


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