Invaders (2019)

[capandkirby]

Well, from the May War of the Realms solicits, it appears I was partially correct about Roxxon -- they were up to no good in the Antaractic. AND they are working with Malekith.

Good call! Yeah, after our discussion last week I remembered that Roxxon had appeared (albeit indirectly) in the last Cap issue, too...

cap#7.jpg

...the people who framed Cap for murder were at this banquet. In the panels before and after this one Cap was discussing how "charlatans had claimed the (American) dream" (he's not wrong), thus the references in this panel to Roxxon, Hammer, etc. And that's Mayor Kingpin there at the podium. Lots of shady business going on. Could be a stylistic choice from the artist, could be intentional foreshadowing.

[Reviresco]

FINALLY they've posted the preview for Invaders 2!


http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com...vaders-2019-2/

[Reviresco]

Good call! Yeah, after our discussion last week I remembered that Roxxon had appeared (albeit indirectly) in the last Cap issue, too...

cap#7.jpg

...the people who framed Cap for murder were at this banquet. In the panels before and after this one Cap was discussing how "charlatans had claimed the (American) dream" (he's not wrong), thus the references in this panel to Roxxon, Hammer, etc. And that's Mayor Kingpin there at the podium. Lots of shady business going on. Could be a stylistic choice from the artist, could be intentional foreshadowing.

I'm sure it is the latter. Roxxon and Kingpin sounds like an entirely appropriate, and villainous, team up.

[ImperiusWrecked]

FINALLY they've posted the preview for Invaders 2!


http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com...vaders-2019-2/

Butch's Steve is just so damn good, I love his art and how it has this almost washed out quality that really contrasts magno's fuller brighter colors. I know the colorist is in charge of the colors and i really like how much detail they have going on, both the past and present are very interesting to look at. I can't wait for the angst of future Steve having to confront Namor. This is a reminder of the time Phoenix Namor and Steve had their meeting. Also I can't wait for more past Invaders, I hope this issue include more jim.

[capandkirby]

Butch's Steve is just so damn good, I love his art and how it has this almost washed out quality that really contrasts magno's fuller brighter colors. I know the colorist is in charge of the colors and i really like how much detail they have going on, both the past and present are very interesting to look at. I can't wait for the angst of future Steve having to confront Namor. This is a reminder of the time Phoenix Namor and Steve had their meeting. Also I can't wait for more past Invaders, I hope this issue include more jim.

I cannot understate how much I'm anticipating that meeting between Namor and Steve. Next Wednesday cannot get here soon enough.

[ImperiusWrecked]

I just always get so many feels about this scene cause Namor is possessed but he still wouldn't betray Steve and Steve's loyalty to Namor is just one of the things I love about their friendship. They haven't always seen eye to eye on subjects and they have gone against each other but the mutual respect is there and I just love them both.

[capandkirby]

I just always get so many feels about this scene cause Namor is possessed but he still wouldn't betray Steve and Steve's loyalty to Namor is just one of the things I love about their friendship. They haven't always seen eye to eye on subjects and they have gone against each other but the mutual respect is there and I just love them both.

God I love those panels. For so many reasons. They're one of the things that made AvX bearable. And god lord are they gorgeously drawn and colored.

[ImperiusWrecked]

God I love those panels. For so many reasons. They're one of the things that made AvX bearable. And god lord are they gorgeously drawn and colored.

This whole scene was practically the only good thing in AVX. I really have a hate/love relationship with that run because I hate how it set up Namor and Wakanda to be forever enemies and how everyone blames Namor for Wakanda even thought he was possessed at the time. Namor of course takes the responsibility rather than try to claim it wasn't him because he always takes the guilt/responsibility of people being hurt. However I love this scene, I love the phoenix suit. If only someone had taken what could have been a very interesting plot and tried to explore Namor's psyche and ramifications of being used by the phoenix then it might have turned out better but Marvel let this one slide and only trot it out to remind people that Namor is 'bad bad bad and look he destroyed Wakanda!', regardless of the fact that Namor and Tchalla had a mutually respectful relationship before. We could have gotten more Steve and Namor time out of this but this whole run was wasted and did nothing to make any of the characters develop more.

I wonder if Chip will bring up Namor and Phoenix in this Invaders run?

[capandkirby]

This whole scene was practically the only good thing in AVX. I really have a hate/love relationship with that run because I hate how it set up Namor and Wakanda to be forever enemies and how everyone blames Namor for Wakanda even thought he was possessed at the time. Namor of course takes the responsibility rather than try to claim it wasn't him because he always takes the guilt/responsibility of people being hurt. However I love this scene, I love the phoenix suit. If only someone had taken what could have been a very interesting plot and tried to explore Namor's psyche and ramifications of being used by the phoenix then it might have turned out better but Marvel let this one slide and only trot it out to remind people that Namor is 'bad bad bad and look he destroyed Wakanda!', regardless of the fact that Namor and Tchalla had a mutually respectful relationship before. We could have gotten more Steve and Namor time out of this but this whole run was wasted and did nothing to make any of the characters develop more.

I wonder if Chip will bring up Namor and Phoenix in this Invaders run?

I'm torn between wanting Steve and Namor to clear of the air of everything, re: AvX and all-of-Hickman, and them never addressing any of it ever again, tbh.

Not that I hated Hickman, I didn't, to the contrary, I was hooked, I can't remember events that I've been that engrossed in, but following reading Hickman you can only keep fan-ing after and loving your faves with as much intensity as ever (and I'm including Steve as well as Namor in this, because Steve wasn't a 100% clean in any of it by any stretch of the imagination) with the knowledge that everyone in Hickman's 'verse was pushed to the brink of stress and anxiety and lashed out in ways they otherwise wouldn't have if they weren't pushed to the absolute brink of hysteria. In otherwords, they were all pretty much thinking with their hindbrain.

[ImperiusWrecked]

I'm torn between wanting Steve and Namor to clear of the air of everything, re: AvX and all-of-Hickman, and them never addressing any of it ever again, tbh.

Not that I hated Hickman, I didn't, to the contrary, I was hooked, I can't remember events that I've been that engrossed in, but following reading Hickman you can only keep fan-ing after and loving your faves with as much intensity as ever (and I'm including Steve as well as Namor in this, because Steve wasn't a 100% clean in any of it by any stretch of the imagination) with the knowledge that everyone in Hickman's 'verse was pushed to the brink of stress and anxiety and lashed out in ways they otherwise wouldn't have if they weren't pushed to the absolute brink of hysteria. In otherwords, they were all pretty much thinking with their hindbrain.

Gosh, just like Phoenix I'm torn with Hickman, there were some things I liked and not so much other things.

Hickman had a 'take you and glue you to your seat' story, and though I detest 'everything is destoryed/gone and then suddenly everything was fixed and we are at the beginning again and everyone is still alive/unhurt/nothing changed' stories because you basically put all those characters through the grinder emotionally without it effecting things in the real world. The ending is confusing because if everything reverted back to the start then wakanda and atlantis didn't continue their war, shuri didn't send any armies to atlantis and namor didnt send the black order to wakanda etc. However it's like the ending didn't matter and everything stayed, so that is a big issue I have with Hickman.

His Namor isn't the old noble Namor of the silver age and is far more ruthless, which as you said 'everyone was on edge and pushed to the limit' so that does change the way they would have acted/interacted with each other. However he and Steve have had their ups and downs, and just having anything that would explore that in more depth is def. something I want to read.

[XPac]

I'm torn between wanting Steve and Namor to clear of the air of everything, re: AvX and all-of-Hickman, and them never addressing any of it ever again, tbh.

Not that I hated Hickman, I didn't, to the contrary, I was hooked, I can't remember events that I've been that engrossed in, but following reading Hickman you can only keep fan-ing after and loving your faves with as much intensity as ever (and I'm including Steve as well as Namor in this, because Steve wasn't a 100% clean in any of it by any stretch of the imagination) with the knowledge that everyone in Hickman's 'verse was pushed to the brink of stress and anxiety and lashed out in ways they otherwise wouldn't have if they weren't pushed to the absolute brink of hysteria. In otherwords, they were all pretty much thinking with their hindbrain.

The Hickman stuff was sort of weird with Steve and Namor, because they were still losely working together in the Invaders even though Steve was at the point of hunting down the Illuminati for everything they did. There was one issue where they sort of addressed that, but it was still kinda weird.

But it's interesting that we keep coming back to stories with these two on opposite sides. AvX, Time Runs Out, Secret Empire, and now the current stuff. It's a good thing these tension filled meetings between Steve and Namor are so entertaining, because we keep getting them.

[Nomads1]

Preview of the Invaders #5 cover art by Butch Guice!

Really don"t like this new look they've got for Namor. And it has nothing to do with the artist. Guice is, IMHO, great!

Peace

[capandkirby]

Gosh, just like Phoenix I'm torn with Hickman, there were some things I liked and not so much other things.

Hickman had a 'take you and glue you to your seat' story, and though I detest 'everything is destroyed/gone and then suddenly everything was fixed and we are at the beginning again and everyone is still alive/unhurt/nothing changed' stories because you basically put all those characters through the grinder emotionally without it effecting things in the real world. The ending is confusing because if everything reverted back to the start then wakanda and atlantis didn't continue their war, shuri didn't send any armies to atlantis and namor didnt send the black order to wakanda etc. However it's like the ending didn't matter and everything stayed, so that is a big issue I have with Hickman.

His Namor isn't the old noble Namor of the silver age and is far more ruthless, which as you said 'everyone was on edge and pushed to the limit' so that does change the way they would have acted/interacted with each other. However he and Steve have had their ups and downs, and just having anything that would explore that in more depth is def. something I want to read.

Very true. I do agree with that 100%. I've been wanting a Steve and Namor heart-to-heart for YEARS. I think we're long overdue for one. I sometimes wonder if Marvel even remembers that these guys would take a bullet for each other (and have). Said it once, and I'll say it again...

Hey @marvelcomics, you do remember that empathy between characters translates to empathy and emotional investment from your reader-base, right? I mean, that's basic characterization 101, just ask the godfather of science fiction Isaac Asimov! Asking for a friend!

And in case anyone is wondering why the random Asimov name-drop (the following is common-knowledge Trek lore for those of us who are Trekkies):

Gene Roddenberry, having trouble getting his fledgling show Star Trek to remain on the air, once asked Asimov, this:

...And yet Star Trek needs a strong lead, an Earth lead. Without diminishing the importance of the secondary continuing characters. But the problem we generally find is this—if we play Kirk as a true ship commander, strong and hard, devoted to career and service, it too often makes him seem unlikable. On the other hand, if we play him too warm-hearted, friendly and so on, the attitude often is "how did a guy like that get to be a ship commander?" Sort of a damned if he does and damned if he doesn't situation. Actually, although it is missed by the general audience, it is Kirk's fine handling of a most difficult role that permits Spock and the others to come off as well as they do. But Kirk does deserve more and so does the actor who plays him. I am in something of a quandary about it.

Got any ideas?

Gene

Asimov replied this:

...Then, too, it might be well to unify the team of Kirk and Spock a bit, by having them actively meet various menaces together with one saving the life of the other on occasion. The idea of this would be to get people to think of Kirk when they think of Spock.

And, finally, the most important suggestion of all—ignore this letter, unless it happens to make sense to you.

Isaac

And Gene's reply:

Isaac,

Your comments on Shatner and Spock were most interesting and I have passed them on to Gene Coon and others. We've followed one idea immediately, that of having Spock save his Captain's life, in an up-coming show. I will follow your advice about having them much more a team, standing more closely together. As for having Shatner play more varied roles, we have been looking in that direction and will continue to do so.

But I think the most important comment is that of keeping them a close team. Shatner will come off ahead by showing he is fond of the teenage idol; Spock will do well by displaying great loyalty to his Captain.

In a way it will give us one lead, the team.

Gene

And the rest is history. IMO Asimov's advice easily applies to Marvel, as well, and Marvel would do well to remember that the relationship between characters is what generates empathy. A character can't exist in a vacuum. They have to be loved by others and give love in return in order for the audience to connect with them because love is something extraordinary beings like superheroes, and we normal variety readers, have in common, a connecting thread, as it were.

[Snoop Dogg]

Canonically, Namor still suffers from Phoenix mental trauma. Add it to list of potentially cool things from the Jean Grey solo lost forever at the hands of the X-Office's editors.

[capandkirby]

The Hickman stuff was sort of weird with Steve and Namor, because they were still losely working together in the Invaders even though Steve was at the point of hunting down the Illuminati for everything they did. There was one issue where they sort of addressed that, but it was still kinda weird.

But it's interesting that we keep coming back to stories with these two on opposite sides. AvX, Time Runs Out, Secret Empire, and now the current stuff. It's a good thing these tension filled meetings between Steve and Namor are so entertaining, because we keep getting them.

I agree it was weird. That conversation between Steve and Namor in Time Runs Out, when Sue did her thing and actually got the two sides talking to each other felt so... emotionally empty, considering how emotionally charged everything else was at the time. It was weird. Namor's just like, 'let us do the thing and I'll turn myself in' and Steve's just 'well if you promise, okay' and there was no... spark. We got emotion out of Steve when Namor didn't come back (looking at you, there, T'Challa), there he was very visibly upset, but that felt like the only emotion out of the whole encounter.

And you're right, considering Steve had just invaded the Kree homeworld to save Namor not too long prior to all that, there was an obvious disconnect.