Invaders (2019)

[ImperiusWrecked]

A few Panels from today's issue





i really loved the hug

[ImperiusWrecked]

More Invaders panels, I just love the flashback scenes the most

[ImperiusWrecked]

More Invaders panels, I just love the flashback scenes the most

One more flashback page

[Mormegil]

That last panel should have had them do more of the Arnold predator handshake. But it might have ruined the moment.

[jackolover]

It’s one of those times when Marvel Comics transforms from the 1940’s to the 1960’s and attempts to reconcile why it’s so different. Chip Zdarsky did this wonderful thing of filling in an empty gap in the story of Namor and Cap’s return to Modern Marvel, after disappearing after the War. Cap going to Bucky’s grave for the first time, and, later, meeting Namor on a yacht for the first time as Invaders in the 60’s.

But the real heavy doctrine Steve Rogers parades out is the Mission statement of the Invaders - “We’re here to stop evil men from thinking they know what’s best for the world”. That seems like Steve is saying, “When we assemble together as the Invaders, our individual dramas are secondary. Our primary task as Invaders are to perform our mission in concert, and forget our ego’s”.

That ethic was something that was supposed to be timeless. It’s like the Invaders must always be there to handle insurrection, (Like Fear Itself, War of the Realms, and a Secret Invasion). But I can’t help thinking that Steve Rogers never needed the Invaders when those despots (The Serpent, Malekith, and the Skrull) appeared in the modern world. My feeling is, here, that Steve is clinging to an outmoded form of nostalgia, and I’m surprised Namor didn’t call him out on that in #11 of Invaders.

[jackolover]

I think (and this sucks and I hate it) that the Torches fell into Marvel's current philosophy of 'if they're not a household name don't give them the spotlight'. Which is a backwards sentiment because a) a good writer/artist can sell anything, any character can become a household name with the right team and b) Marvel just expects fans to know who characters are, be familiar with characters, without doing any actual work. They don't give Jim or Toro enough appearances. Toro could have easily appeared in Bucky's recent solo. Jim could have appeared in Steve's trying to break him out of prison or something. They can't just dust characters off every five years or so and expect newer readers to know who they are and care about their connections to each other. I'm guessing most of Invaders' sales came from long-time readers. And that's all well and good, but keeping these characters, or in the very least their connections to each other and strong bonds between them, front and center, would do a better job of grabbing a new generation of fans.

It’s difficult to apply relevance to a team of 1940’s characters in 2019. It’s the reason why Toro doesn’t appear in Buckys book, and Namor doesn’t appear in Steve’s book. Both modern Winter Soldier and Steve Rogers have done quite well without resorting to their old pals from Invaders days. (However, there was one occasion when Bucky sought out Namor after Steve’s death in Civil War, and, again later, to help Bucky on a mission - Marvel should have kept up those contacts, but it fell away). It seems there is a demarcation between Invaders and what Cap and Winter Soldier have become now. I think the only reason the Invaders have reassembled is to shake Namor out of his funk about Malin, and nothing more.

I don’t know if the Invaders are supposed to be a thing in modern Marvel, but I would like Steve to split with the Avengers and start the Invaders Modern Team today. I think Steve would feel more comfortable with Winter Soldier, Toro, Namor, Hammond and the others. They remind me of the Agents of Atlas, except the Allies version, not the Asian version. Are the Invaders still topical? I think they are, as issues from WWII still pervade our current events, and, what was important then is still the same today. I think, after a Secret Empire, Steve Rogers has burnt his bridges in modern Avengers as a leader. I think Steve will feel more comfortable around people he has traditions with. You go through war with people and you become brothers. You don’t have that with Avengers. Bring in Blue Marvel for the science stuff.

[capandkirby]

It’s difficult to apply relevance to a team of 1940’s characters in 2019. It’s the reason why Toro doesn’t appear in Buckys book, and Namor doesn’t appear in Steve’s book. Both modern Winter Soldier and Steve Rogers have done quite well without resorting to their old pals from Invaders days. (However, there was one occasion when Bucky sought out Namor after Steve’s death in Civil War, and, again later, to help Bucky on a mission - Marvel should have kept up those contacts, but it fell away). It seems there is a demarcation between Invaders and what Cap and Winter Soldier have become now. I think the only reason the Invaders have reassembled is to shake Namor out of his funk about Malin, and nothing more.

I don’t know if the Invaders are supposed to be a thing in modern Marvel, but I would like Steve to split with the Avengers and start the Invaders Modern Team today. I think Steve would feel more comfortable with Winter Soldier, Toro, Namor, Hammond and the others. They remind me of the Agents of Atlas, except the Allies version, not the Asian version. Are the Invaders still topical? I think they are, as issues from WWII still pervade our current events, and, what was important then is still the same today. I think, after a Secret Empire, Steve Rogers has burnt his bridges in modern Avengers as a leader. I think Steve will feel more comfortable around people he has traditions with. You go through war with people and you become brothers. You don’t have that with Avengers. Bring in Blue Marvel for the science stuff.

Disagree that Steve burnt his bridges as a leader with Secret Empire. Most of the MU knows that it wasn't him, it was a cosmic cube created evil duplicate. And anyone who did hold it against him would be a giant hypocrite since almost every single character in the MU has been brainwashed/cloned/bespelled or otherwise lost their agency and made to do horrible things. That said, I wouldn't mind a permanent Invaders team, that would be awesome.

[Reviresco]

Disagree that Steve burnt his bridges as a leader with Secret Empire. Most of the MU knows that it wasn't him, it was a cosmic cube created evil duplicate. And anyone who did hold it against him would be a giant hypocrite since almost every single character in the MU has been brainwashed/cloned/bespelled or otherwise lost their agency and made to do horrible things. That said, I wouldn't mind a permanent Invaders team, that would be awesome.

There are plenty of characters (and people) who are giant hypocrites and pay no attention to the context of the situations. Just look what has happened to Namor in the last 10 - 15 years.

I would love a permanent Invaders book, too! And while I give credit to Marvel for actually trying several times (certainly more times than they have tried with a Namor book), they seem to have a higher criteria than they do for other books which immediately gets rebooted, repeatedly.

I think Marvel just won't move past it's ingrained preconceptions that an Invaders book has to be modern, when the whole idea of the Invaders was a disparate group of superheroes banding together to fight the Axis in WWII. Just give readers a solid WWII war book with a good creative team to tell cool stories with all the WWII era characters rotating through.

[Reviresco]

ItÂ’s one of those times when Marvel Comics transforms from the 1940Â’s to the 1960Â’s and attempts to reconcile why itÂ’s so different. Chip Zdarsky did this wonderful thing of filling in an empty gap in the story of Namor and CapÂ’s return to Modern Marvel, after disappearing after the War. Cap going to BuckyÂ’s grave for the first time, and, later, meeting Namor on a yacht for the first time as Invaders in the 60Â’s.

It being wonderful is not at all universally agreed upon. While I have enjoyed many of Zdarsky's flashbacks (hugs for everybody!), I absolutely do NOT care for much of the retcon of Namor's amnesia period. First off, it's ridiculous that Namor's amnesia era is exempt from the sliding timeline, for some unknown reason -- though Zdarsky is not alone in this idea. Originally, Namor had amnesia for months to a year or two. The last issue of his Atlas era book was near the end of 1955. His Silver Age appearance was in spring 1962. There are NOT 50 plus years between 1955 and 1962, so clearly, it was never intended for his amnesia to last that long.

Second, it's just plain stupid to have Namor missing for 50 plus years from Atlantis, and expect the Atlanteans to simply go without a ruler all that time, as well as have those power hungry antagonists like Krang and Byrrah and Attuma not taking the thrones, as well as have Lady Dorma pining away and refusing to marry anyone for over FIVE decades. Nor would Namor, as Zdarsky has implied, abandon Atlantis for 50 plus years.

Third, boy is Xavier written like a total villain or what? He's known for all this time that he screwed up with his 'therapy' for Namor and he's done NOTHING to fix it? WTF?

There's more reasons, I'm sure, but I'm short of time right now. I will say again, I did enjoy the flashback this issue to explain more about Cap and Namor's early Silver Age issues, but that's a relationship that has evolved quite a bit since the beginning of the Silver Age. Including the fact that they weren't war buddies at all. The Invaders are, after all, a retcon.

[KOSLOX]

It being wonderful is not at all universally agreed upon. While I have enjoyed many of Zdarsky's flashbacks (hugs for everybody!), I absolutely do NOT care for much of the retcon of Namor's amnesia period. First off, it's ridiculous that Namor's amnesia era is exempt from the sliding timeline, for some unknown reason -- though Zdarsky is not alone in this idea. Originally, Namor had amnesia for months to a year or two. The last issue of his Atlas era book was near the end of 1955. His Silver Age appearance was in spring 1962. There are NOT 50 plus years between 1955 and 1962, so clearly, it was never intended for his amnesia to last that long.

Second, it's just plain stupid to have Namor missing for 50 plus years from Atlantis, and expect the Atlanteans to simply go without a ruler all that time, as well as have those power hungry antagonists like Krang and Byrrah and Attuma not taking the thrones, as well as have Lady Dorma pining away and refusing to marry anyone for over FIVE decades. Nor would Namor, as Zdarsky has implied, abandon Atlantis for 50 plus years.

Third, boy is Xavier written like a total villain or what? He's known for all this time that he screwed up with his 'therapy' for Namor and he's done NOTHING to fix it? WTF?

There's more reasons, I'm sure, but I'm short of time right now. I will say again, I did enjoy the flashback this issue to explain more about Cap and Namor's early Silver Age issues, but that's a relationship that has evolved quite a bit since the beginning of the Silver Age. Including the fact that they weren't war buddies at all. The Invaders are, after all, a retcon.

I dunno, that sounds like an Odyssey-esque story someone could tell.

[Reviresco]

I dunno, that sounds like an Odyssey-esque story someone could tell.

It certainly COULD be a cool story to TELL, if Marvel would commit to fully telling the story over a few years of issues, explaining WHY the Atlanteans would sit around rulerless for 50 years, and WHY none of the other ambitious Atlanteans were taking over, and promise to write Lady Dorma in a modern manner and not an idiot, who is waiting around 50 years for a guy who hadn't made any commitment to her whatsoever.

And it could be a great run if there was a good creative team that would write Namor over a few years as a worthy character, under his own agency, and show those struggles and WHY he isn't reclaiming his life and his people, instead of wandering around as a derelict hobo, or a victim, or someone who just wants to hang out with people like Xavier who want to abuse him for their own purposes.

Instead, what was supposed to a reasonable SHORT period of time that adds a dimension that few other characters have, has been elongated into half a century of wasted life that's just treated as a throw away line / premise without any explanation.

[KOSLOX]

It certainly COULD be a cool story to TELL, if Marvel would commit to fully telling the story over a few years of issues, explaining WHY the Atlanteans would sit around rulerless for 50 years, and WHY none of the other ambitious Atlanteans were taking over, and promise to write Lady Dorma in a modern manner and not an idiot, who is waiting around 50 years for a guy who hadn't made any commitment to her whatsoever.

And it could be a great run if there was a good creative team that would write Namor over a few years as a worthy character, under his own agency, and show those struggles and WHY he isn't reclaiming his life and his people, instead of wandering around as a derelict hobo, or a victim, or someone who just wants to hang out with people like Xavier who want to abuse him for their own purposes.

Instead, what was supposed to a reasonable SHORT period of time that adds a dimension that few other characters have, has been elongated into half a century of wasted life that's just treated as a throw away line / premise without any explanation.

That's all certainly good and fair criticism. I just like to imagine what kind of positives can be built of bad story telling elements. Even though it's usually just headcannon.

[jackolover]

It being wonderful is not at all universally agreed upon. While I have enjoyed many of Zdarsky's flashbacks (hugs for everybody!), I absolutely do NOT care for much of the retcon of Namor's amnesia period. First off, it's ridiculous that Namor's amnesia era is exempt from the sliding timeline, for some unknown reason -- though Zdarsky is not alone in this idea. Originally, Namor had amnesia for months to a year or two. The last issue of his Atlas era book was near the end of 1955. His Silver Age appearance was in spring 1962. There are NOT 50 plus years between 1955 and 1962, so clearly, it was never intended for his amnesia to last that long.

Second, it's just plain stupid to have Namor missing for 50 plus years from Atlantis, and expect the Atlanteans to simply go without a ruler all that time, as well as have those power hungry antagonists like Krang and Byrrah and Attuma not taking the thrones, as well as have Lady Dorma pining away and refusing to marry anyone for over FIVE decades. Nor would Namor, as Zdarsky has implied, abandon Atlantis for 50 plus years.

Third, boy is Xavier written like a total villain or what? He's known for all this time that he screwed up with his 'therapy' for Namor and he's done NOTHING to fix it? WTF?

There's more reasons, I'm sure, but I'm short of time right now. I will say again, I did enjoy the flashback this issue to explain more about Cap and Namor's early Silver Age issues, but that's a relationship that has evolved quite a bit since the beginning of the Silver Age. Including the fact that they weren't war buddies at all. The Invaders are, after all, a retcon.

Yeah, it is rather grating that Zdarsky tries to implant Steve Rogers and Namor relationship in this Invaders archaic setting when their relationship has grown so much since the Silver Age. I just feel like the Invaders stories tend to make the characters retroactively recede backwards in time. I don’t know. That’s just the feeling I get. Like I was trying to explain, it’s a difficult task to make 1940’s, the Invaders characters (from a WWII setting) jump into the modern setting. I have a preference to making the Invaders a modern team in today’s setting. I don’t think the Invaders would be Out-Of-time, considering all the characters have progressed in this time. I can see the Winter Soldier in his Man-on-the-wall role adding a lot of tech and devices to the team, as well as including the Invaders in his mission now and then.

I was surprised to learn as you pointed out, Namors Last Atlas era story was as recent as 1955.

[jackolover]

Disagree that Steve burnt his bridges as a leader with Secret Empire. Most of the MU knows that it wasn't him, it was a cosmic cube created evil duplicate. And anyone who did hold it against him would be a giant hypocrite since almost every single character in the MU has been brainwashed/cloned/bespelled or otherwise lost their agency and made to do horrible things. That said, I wouldn't mind a permanent Invaders team, that would be awesome.

I am not happy, nor convinced Steve Rogers can survive as the Avengers leader as a result of Secret Empire. There is too much negative knee-jerk reaction happening towards Steve as evidenced in his recent arc with the Ladies of Liberty, and I don’t see it reducing in intensity. It really reminds me of Steve in the Civil War right now. I don’t think he can catch a break in the situation he is in.

[jackolover]

It certainly COULD be a cool story to TELL, if Marvel would commit to fully telling the story over a few years of issues, explaining WHY the Atlanteans would sit around rulerless for 50 years, and WHY none of the other ambitious Atlanteans were taking over, and promise to write Lady Dorma in a modern manner and not an idiot, who is waiting around 50 years for a guy who hadn't made any commitment to her whatsoever.

And it could be a great run if there was a good creative team that would write Namor over a few years as a worthy character, under his own agency, and show those struggles and WHY he isn't reclaiming his life and his people, instead of wandering around as a derelict hobo, or a victim, or someone who just wants to hang out with people like Xavier who want to abuse him for their own purposes.

Instead, what was supposed to a reasonable SHORT period of time that adds a dimension that few other characters have, has been elongated into half a century of wasted life that's just treated as a throw away line / premise without any explanation.

I would be interested in a retrospective on Namor during this period post-war to the Silver Age recovery period. Jonathan Hickman was able to inject a lot of intrigue into SHIELD just prior to the Silver Age in his retrospective about SHIELDS background. There are a lot of Lost Years in the post-War period, that when filled in, could add to the understanding of why Atlantis developed how it did.