Invaders (2019)

[Reviresco]

Well, the final issue is out. It's a grand finale that will make most folks happy, I would think. Everyone gets a good battlefield showing, but Zdarsky highlights Namor and Cap and their relationship in this issue.

We don't get a lot of Butch Guice's work / flash backs, but wow, Carlos Magno goes INSANE in the battle scenes. And Namor's throne room.

Of course, as a Namor fan, I have some nit picking and reservations about the retcons, but overall, I have to say a big thank you to the entire creative crew. As much as I've enjoyed the focus on Namor, I would have LOVED to see this series continue, with every Invader getting a spotlight. I'd love to see Namor and Bucky on another adventure. And Torch getting rid of that awful Iron Man suit. And the British Invaders. SO MUCH MORE.

[Captain Craig]

How long till Marvel tries again with an Invaders series? What was the span from this and All-New Invaders, was it 4/5 yrs?
Hopefully they try again sooner as there is so much potential but due to the gaps between series they risk re-using too many tropes within the concept vs moving forward for the new era.

[capandkirby]

I really enjoyed today's issue, and the run as a whole. I said this on the Cap thread but I'll say it again here. One thing that is missing from recent Marvel storytelling, particular post-Civil War, is heart. Our heroes seem to be at odds with each other more than they're not. As a result, it leaves the readers left to wonder if they're not toxic for each other, since none of them can seemingly get along. I like that Zdarsky focused on bonds. Focused on the commonalities between these men as the main point, rather than make their differences the highlight of the story. For me, it worked. I'm reminded that Steve and Namor, despite their disagreements over the years, love each other. I wish more writers would do this, for ALL the MU, if I'm to be frank. Because we could really use a reminder, these days, that there is love within the superhero community, that's its not all hostility and philosophical differences.

I, too, would have loved more focus on the Torches, and also Jackie, but honestly, to do this story, and to reintroduce the Invaders to a new, younger audience, it sort of HAD to be a Steve and Namor story. Because Steve is the bigger name of the group, most of the audience is already aware of him and know him, so it's through Steve's connections to the others that can bring them out to play more in future storytelling (hopefully) but first we need those connections re-established. An example of what I'm trying to say here is what Brubaker did with Bucky. Bucky had been dead, as a character, for decades. There was that old saying, the only characters who truly die in the MU are Uncle Ben and Bucky. When Brubaker brought Bucky back, the audience didn't really know him that well, as a grown-up, as he'd only been featured in Invaders runs set in the past, mostly as a teenager. So initially, before they got to know Bucky as a character in his own right and like him, the audience was invested in the Winter Soldier arc because *Steve* was invested. Steve was the vehicle in which that first bond, between reader and character, was forged. Same thing here. Marvel has spent years treating the Invaders as mere footnotes and have spent years depicting Namor as a villain. To undo that, to give Namor the chance to shine again (because he has been appearing in a lot of books lately and I hope this is all leading to a solo) Marvel needed to remind the audience that Namor is, actually, loved by other characters within the MU, like Steve (whom the audience knows), and there is good in him.

It sort of had to be this way, because of a corner Marvel had backed themselves into. And Zdarsky did a good job of it. And now, hopefully, in the future, the next Invaders story will feature more of the others.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Well the series had its ups and down, mostly just me wanting to question a bunch of things that probably don't matter in the end, like where did Namor's powers go since he hadn't been using them for the last few issues, even with him being turned human would that take his powers away, did he get them back when he changed back, why couldn't we have more focus on the torches, why would Namor be so eager to kill Machan/Roman when he has shown mercy to his worst enemies before, is Roman still alive in his own body? I hope the Vodan retcon does not stick around mainly because I don't like the Atlanteans being made into an alien species. I feel that this series started off very strong though. Lots of great art scenes too. I hoping for another Invaders series soon and that this time they spend less time fighting each other and more time punching nazis, lol.

[Reviresco]

How long till Marvel tries again with an Invaders series? What was the span from this and All-New Invaders, was it 4/5 yrs?
Hopefully they try again sooner as there is so much potential but due to the gaps between series they risk re-using too many tropes within the concept vs moving forward for the new era.

IIRC, All New Invaders was 2014-2015, so yes, about that time. However, we also sort of got the Invaders in BRAVE NEW WORLD during Secret Empire in 2017. So, yes, there's someone in editorial that likes the Invaders ... unlike Namor. (Yes, STILL salty that Marvel's first superhero can't get even a chance at an ongoing in a DECADE.)

Anyway, that's always been the argument about the Invaders. Do you put their book in the present or in the past? Marvel seems to favor the present, with flashbacks to the WWII days. It hasn't exactly proven successful, so I don't understand why they don't just take the plunge and do a WWII Invaders book, like the original was. Not sure who we'd get to write it now, though. Marvel's latest writing staff seems to be more interested in the modern teen rather than anything historical.

[Reviresco]

Well the series had its ups and down, mostly just me wanting to question a bunch of things that probably don't matter in the end, like where did Namor's powers go since he hadn't been using them for the last few issues, even with him being turned human would that take his powers away, did he get them back when he changed back, why couldn't we have more focus on the torches, why would Namor be so eager to kill Machan/Roman when he has shown mercy to his worst enemies before, is Roman still alive in his own body? I hope the Vodan retcon does not stick around mainly because I don't like the Atlanteans being made into an alien species. I feel that this series started off very strong though. Lots of great art scenes too. I hoping for another Invaders series soon and that this time they spend less time fighting each other and more time punching nazis, lol.

After Robinson's non-stop veneration of Jim Hammond in his run of Invaders AND Squadron Supreme, I'm fine with the Torches not getting so much focus. Plus, "focus" on the Torches seems to result in some awful changes, i.e. Iron Torch, Torch losing his powers, Torch getting his powers warped, Torch getting "decommissioned," etc., etc. etc. Not to mention poor Toro getting his origin and powers re-written so often. I will say Zdarsky's view on Torch and Namor's relationship is different than what I've grown accustomed to -- at least as the series progressed. In the beginning, where Hammond is the one reminding Cap of who Namor is to them -- that seemed on target to me. Namor ripping off Jim's head? Absolutely no way. I know Zdarsky did it to illustrate how far Machan had tainted Namor, but I still feel that's a line he wouldn't have crossed, anymore than he would have killed Cap, or nearly killed Stingray (looking at you Aaron).

The Vodan thing is kind of strange. I thought in Best Defense the Vodani were a lost tribe of Atlantis that somehow got on that planet? Of course, I could be remembering wrong. It seemed more ambiguous as to the Vodani origins in those issues. But I agree. I don't think the Atlanteans should be space aliens.

Yep, the transformation into human and the powers Namor lost wasn't really explained ... or made sense. He should have still had his ankle wings and flight, and the powers of Hydroman, you'd have thought. I am torn about those powers, though. It was cool to see, and makes sense for the character, but was it too much? I'm not usually a fan of power creep.

I agree. The attempt to kill Machan, when he's possessing Roman, is off. It's not Roman's fault, any more than it is entirely Namor's fault. Though, one could argue, I suppose, that one reason why Namor is eager to execute him, is because he blames himself, and there's some projection going on. However, that's not made clear at all. Also, I don't see Namor letting the American's imprison Roman, either. Namor is loyal, especially to the women in his life. And after all he put Nae and Roman through, I just don't see him throwing Roman and that relationship with the Petersons away.

But again, with one major disagreement (which I'll try to get into later), most of my complaints / questions are trumped by all the good things Zdarsky did (OMG all the HUGS!), as well as the great art. Too bad it looks like Aaron is going to completely ignore the series as far as Namor, and maybe Cap, is concerned.

[capandkirby]

But again, with one major disagreement (which I'll try to get into later), most of my complaints / questions are trumped by all the good things Zdarsky did (OMG all the HUGS!), as well as the great art. Too bad it looks like Aaron is going to completely ignore the series as far as Namor, and maybe Cap, is concerned.

I live in hope, since it's clear that Ewing has plans for Namor, since he's teamed-up with Bruce, that this will prevent Aaron from denigrating the relationship between Cap and Namor in his book. Aaron, Zdarsky and Ewing have seemed to sync their stories up. And based on the art on the Avengers cover, where Namor looks utterly uninterested in the proceedings when he's around the other antagonists...



(God I love that expression so much. It makes me giggle whenever I look at it) he might even end up helping the Avengers out. If there is a reason behind the artist drawing him that way.

I mean, maybe I am being foolishly optimistic, but solicit summaries are often misleading.

[Reviresco]

I live in hope, since it's clear that Ewing has plans for Namor, since he's teamed-up with Bruce, that this will prevent Aaron from denigrating the relationship between Cap and Namor in his book. Aaron, Zdarsky and Ewing have seemed to sync their stories up. And based on the art on the Avengers cover, where Namor looks utterly uninterested in the proceedings when he's around the other antagonists...



(God I love that expression so much. It makes me giggle whenever I look at it) he might even end up helping the Avengers out. If there is a reason behind the artist drawing him that way.

I mean, maybe I am being foolishly optimistic, but solicit summaries are often misleading.

That is an amusing image. It's one dot in his eye from being a sideways eye roll.

Well, I don't entirely trust Aaron with Namor. I mean, Namor was supposed to have a role in his Thor run, perhaps in War of Realms. That was completely dropped. We STILL have no explanation for the black eyes or why Namor is filling his Defenders of the Deep with his own rogues' gallery. And, as I've said elsewhere, that cover features even more people that Namor doesn't get along with. But it's not like there's anything we fans can do except batten down the hatches and hope we don't get yet another deluge of character assassination.

I haven't seen Namor in Immortal Hulk since the Fry Cook Cameo. I hope Ewing does something more with him.

[ImperiusWrecked]

After Robinson's non-stop veneration of Jim Hammond in his run of Invaders AND Squadron Supreme, I'm fine with the Torches not getting so much focus. Plus, "focus" on the Torches seems to result in some awful changes, i.e. Iron Torch, Torch losing his powers, Torch getting his powers warped, Torch getting "decommissioned," etc., etc. etc. Not to mention poor Toro getting his origin and powers re-written so often. I will say Zdarsky's view on Torch and Namor's relationship is different than what I've grown accustomed to -- at least as the series progressed. In the beginning, where Hammond is the one reminding Cap of who Namor is to them -- that seemed on target to me. Namor ripping off Jim's head? Absolutely no way. I know Zdarsky did it to illustrate how far Machan had tainted Namor, but I still feel that's a line he wouldn't have crossed, anymore than he would have killed Cap, or nearly killed Stingray (looking at you Aaron).

The Vodan thing is kind of strange. I thought in Best Defense the Vodani were a lost tribe of Atlantis that somehow got on that planet? Of course, I could be remembering wrong. It seemed more ambiguous as to the Vodani origins in those issues. But I agree. I don't think the Atlanteans should be space aliens.

Yep, the transformation into human and the powers Namor lost wasn't really explained ... or made sense. He should have still had his ankle wings and flight, and the powers of Hydroman, you'd have thought. I am torn about those powers, though. It was cool to see, and makes sense for the character, but was it too much? I'm not usually a fan of power creep.

I agree. The attempt to kill Machan, when he's possessing Roman, is off. It's not Roman's fault, any more than it is entirely Namor's fault. Though, one could argue, I suppose, that one reason why Namor is eager to execute him, is because he blames himself, and there's some projection going on. However, that's not made clear at all. Also, I don't see Namor letting the American's imprison Roman, either. Namor is loyal, especially to the women in his life. And after all he put Nae and Roman through, I just don't see him throwing Roman and that relationship with the Petersons away.

But again, with one major disagreement (which I'll try to get into later), most of my complaints / questions are trumped by all the good things Zdarsky did (OMG all the HUGS!), as well as the great art. Too bad it looks like Aaron is going to completely ignore the series as far as Namor, and maybe Cap, is concerned.

There's definitely some big ups with the series, I do wonder if this will carry into anything else in the future and they way things were left with Namor seems to be open ended, I have a feeling this might be the last we see of Roman and the Petersons unless Chip writes for Namor again. I doubt Aaron will care about all the mental health issues that Xavier did to Namor through Machan living in his head for years enough to explain that Namor is not in his right mind. I worry he will make Namor a villain just to be the "angry sea king" again. Also I agree, Namor may be willing to kill but he has standards and a code and he doesn't enjoy killing like other characters do, and I highly doubt that he would ever really hurt Jim, or Steve, or anyone else he considers one of his few friends, so him ripping off Jim's head and later wanting to kill Roman/Machan was very off to me.

I think this is my fave flashback because we rarely get to see Namor like this:

I live in hope, since it's clear that Ewing has plans for Namor, since he's teamed-up with Bruce, that this will prevent Aaron from denigrating the relationship between Cap and Namor in his book. Aaron, Zdarsky and Ewing have seemed to sync their stories up. And based on the art on the Avengers cover, where Namor looks utterly uninterested in the proceedings when he's around the other antagonists...



(God I love that expression so much. It makes me giggle whenever I look at it) he might even end up helping the Avengers out. If there is a reason behind the artist drawing him that way.

I mean, maybe I am being foolishly optimistic, but solicit summaries are often misleading.

I'm REALLY hoping that Namor is just there to have a change of heart or as an inside man to defeat them because imo it makes no sense for Namor to team up with everyone there.

[Reviresco]

Final sales figures for Invaders. After the initial drop off that all books suffer from, I think Invaders was actually a pretty steady book -- even after the cancellation announcement. What is baffling to me is how Invaders sold much better than other books that are continuing / getting a reboot -- especially if you do an issue by issue comparison. It's annoying / depressing.

Though, I still think that the book ended in part because Zdarsky was finished with his story. I'm hoping the numbers might inspire Marvel to reboot Invaders with a different creative team. There's clearly an audience for this team.



# 48 Invaders 01 - 36,462 +1000 2nd printing

# 86 Invaders 02 - 19,772 + 2nd printing

# 49 Invaders 03 - 33,465 (22,422 calculated actual ordered / #117 dollar ranking)

#114 Invaders 04 - 16,460

#139 Invaders 05 - 15,430

#138 Invaders 06 - 14,792

#080 Invaders 07 - 28,668 (14,334 calculated actual ordered / #156 dollar ranking)

#136 Invaders 08 - 14,248

#155 Invaders 09 - 13,689

#189 Invaders 10 - 13,246

#156 Invaders 11 - 12,667
,
#152 Invaders 12 - 12,168

[ImperiusWrecked]

Final sales figures for Invaders. After the initial drop off that all books suffer from, I think Invaders was actually a pretty steady book -- even after the cancellation announcement. What is baffling to me is how Invaders sold much better than other books that are continuing / getting a reboot -- especially if you do an issue by issue comparison. It's annoying / depressing.

Though, I still think that the book ended in part because Zdarsky was finished with his story. I'm hoping the numbers might inspire Marvel to reboot Invaders with a different creative team. There's clearly an audience for this team.



# 48 Invaders 01 - 36,462 +1000 2nd printing

# 86 Invaders 02 - 19,772 + 2nd printing

# 49 Invaders 03 - 33,465 (22,422 calculated actual ordered / #117 dollar ranking)

#114 Invaders 04 - 16,460

#139 Invaders 05 - 15,430

#138 Invaders 06 - 14,792

#080 Invaders 07 - 28,668 (14,334 calculated actual ordered / #156 dollar ranking)

#136 Invaders 08 - 14,248

#155 Invaders 09 - 13,689

#189 Invaders 10 - 13,246

#156 Invaders 11 - 12,667
,
#152 Invaders 12 - 12,168

These numbers aren't even bad! Yes it went down but all series do until they level out, I think that if the announcement for cancellation hadn't come then we might have had a steady 13,000ish. Seriously there was a steady fan base and that was with the bare minimum amount of advertising on this run compared to other runs. Honestly I hope we do get a reboot soon.

[Captain Craig]

The drop offs are pretty bad. I wish they were not.
Issue #3 to #4 is the last big drop and subsequent issue to issue drop is steady and small.

What I see as disappointing is the amount of folks who drop a title before the first arc is done.

[Mike_Murdock]

Marvel did some extra shipping to encourage interest, so that skews the numbers a bit, but it was such a good book that I hope Marvel takes note.

That being said, it was a spinoff of Aaron's Avengers and not designed to finish the story best I can tell, so it served its purpose.

[Reviresco]

Comixology is having a Chip Zdarsky sale that ends on April 2.

https://www.comixology.com/comics-sa...4017_pg=1&cu=0


If you didn't pick up the first volume of Invaders (6 issues) you can get it for $3.99!