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Thread: Invaders (2019)

  1. #601
    Astonishing Member Ptrvc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    OK so before reading this issue, my biggest worry was that Tony would reprogram Jim into a weapon to be used against the Invaders and Namor, but what he did imo, is so much worse. Jim Hammond has always fought against people who wanted to use him as a weapon, and tried so hard to be a good man and a human. That Tony gave him an iron man body is sickening. It strips him of his humanity and brands him as an extension of Tony. I just really hate this and at this point I have absolutely no desire to ever see Tony again. Sorry not sorry but Jim is one of my all time favorite characters and Tony not repairing his old body and just slapping a fire symbol on a iron man robot has me done with Tony's character.

    To be fair to Tony it's probably less that he's trying to make Hammond into a weapon and more trying to give him back his independence and mobility while in a crisis.

    Tony has a lot more Iron-Man suits than say, fully functional synthetic lying about.

    Edit: Heck, Tony might not be a able to repair Jim's body at all.
    Last edited by Ptrvc; 07-17-2019 at 12:04 PM.

  2. #602
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    Preview for next week's Invaders is out. Doesn't really fit with the Avengers hot tub Tony and Steve.


    https://13thdimension.com/exclusive-preview-invaders-7/
    Honestly its a bit surprising Tony is being so hard on Steve. Technically T'Challa is in charge of the Avengers. So it's not actually Steve's call.

  3. #603
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    OK so before reading this issue, my biggest worry was that Tony would reprogram Jim into a weapon to be used against the Invaders and Namor, but what he did imo, is so much worse. Jim Hammond has always fought against people who wanted to use him as a weapon, and tried so hard to be a good man and a human. That Tony gave him an iron man body is sickening. It strips him of his humanity and brands him as an extension of Tony. I just really hate this and at this point I have absolutely no desire to ever see Tony again. Sorry not sorry but Jim is one of my all time favorite characters and Tony not repairing his old body and just slapping a fire symbol on a iron man robot has me done with Tony's character.

    Tony is definitely OOC here. Namor has been written OOC before as well. You just have to understand that and let it past.
    " I've learned that free will isn't a gift-it's muscle that needs to be exercised-and only when it's in peak condition-is a man truly awake" TONY STARK

  4. #604
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptrvc View Post
    To be fair to Tony it's probably less that he's trying to make Hammond into a weapon and more trying to give him back his independence and mobility while in a crisis.

    Tony has a lot more Iron-Man suits than say, fully functional synthetic lying about.

    Edit: Heck, Tony might not be a able to repair Jim's body at all.
    The Horton cells were created in 1939, and Tony who is supposed to be a genius and has so much tech at his disposal isn't able to fix him up? I don't buy it. This is more than Tony repairing a body, this is Tony dehumanizing a character who has fought so hard to be human. Tony thinking that his suits are better, and making Jim more robotic than human. Jim fights against being seen as a weapon, and Tony finally made him one in outward appearance.
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  5. #605
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    The Horton cells were created in 1939, and Tony who is supposed to be a genius and has so much tech at his disposal isn't able to fix him up? I don't buy it. This is more than Tony repairing a body, this is Tony dehumanizing a character who has fought so hard to be human. Tony thinking that his suits are better, and making Jim more robotic than human. Jim fights against being seen as a weapon, and Tony finally made him one in outward appearance.
    The thing is that Hammond isn't exactly mechanical. Hes not a robot. If he were, repairing his existing body would probably be a lot easier. On short notice, with a crisis going on, this might believably be the best he can do. Given everything else foing on, he probably only has time to do this quick and dirty.

  6. #606
    Astonishing Member Ptrvc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    The Horton cells were created in 1939, and Tony who is supposed to be a genius and has so much tech at his disposal isn't able to fix him up? I don't buy it. This is more than Tony repairing a body, this is Tony dehumanizing a character who has fought so hard to be human. Tony thinking that his suits are better, and making Jim more robotic than human. Jim fights against being seen as a weapon, and Tony finally made him one in outward appearance.
    Jim Hammond's body is incredibly complex and based on technology from an era that Tony is not used to.

    Also there's a question of time. Tony may have wanted to give Him a body now, and then when he had the time, actually craft the body Jim would prefer.

    (It's like when you're car is busted, and they give you a loaner.)

    Now maybe you're right, and this is a scheme by Tony to give Jim a weaponized body, knowing he would go after Namor. That's not completely outside of the stuff Tony has pulled in the past.

    But until the story goes that way and reveals this is part of a scheme by Tony, what we see on page is pretty much Tony doing a temp fix for Jim and nothing more, and there is nothing to suggest a hidden motive.

  7. #607
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    The thing is that Hammond isn't exactly mechanical. Hes not a robot. If he were, repairing his existing body would probably be a lot easier. On short notice, with a crisis going on, this might believably be the best he can do. Given everything else foing on, he probably only has time to do this quick and dirty.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ptrvc View Post
    Jim Hammond's body is incredibly complex and based on technology from an era that Tony is not used to.

    Also there's a question of time. Tony may have wanted to give Him a body now, and then when he had the time, actually craft the body Jim would prefer.

    (It's like when you're car is busted, and they give you a loaner.)

    Now maybe you're right, and this is a scheme by Tony to give Jim a weaponized body, knowing he would go after Namor. That's not completely outside of the stuff Tony has pulled in the past.

    But until the story goes that way and reveals this is part of a scheme by Tony, what we see on page is pretty much Tony doing a temp fix for Jim and nothing more, and there is nothing to suggest a hidden motive.
    Except Jim's body is right there, it wasn't destroyed. If they could have found and saved Jim's head after the tidal wave then they could have recovered Jim's body since they were near each other. All Tony had to do was reattach it. It would have been a faster route than building or modifying a robot body that can also turn into flames.

    invaders.jpg

    I never cared about Tony before, I'm usually just meh on characters that I don't love. But right now I don't want to see any more of Tony. Do I acknowledge that he might be written ooc, is overly aggressive etc.? yes. But I'm not talking about him fighting with Steve over Namor. I know Namor crossed a line.

    I'm talking about how he absolutely and in his own way, dehumanized a character who struggles with humanity and being seen as human, who has been used as a weapon so many times and now has been turned into one on the outside. Tony crossed a line. With the solicitations of the upcoming comics saying that "the torch's life is changed forever" it makes me suspect that this isn't the end of it.
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  8. #608
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Except Jim's body is right there, it wasn't destroyed. If they could have found and saved Jim's head after the tidal wave then they could have recovered Jim's body since they were near each other. All Tony had to do was reattach it. It would have been a faster route than building or modifying a robot body that can also turn into flames.

    invaders.jpg

    I never cared about Tony before, I'm usually just meh on characters that I don't love. But right now I don't want to see any more of Tony. Do I acknowledge that he might be written ooc, is overly aggressive etc.? yes. But I'm not talking about him fighting with Steve over Namor. I know Namor crossed a line.

    I'm talking about how he absolutely and in his own way, dehumanized a character who struggles with humanity and being seen as human, who has been used as a weapon so many times and now has been turned into one on the outside. Tony crossed a line. With the solicitations of the upcoming comics saying that "the torch's life is changed forever" it makes me suspect that this isn't the end of it.
    If Jim himself had a problem with what Stark did and he was doing it against Jim's wishes I might have more issues with it. But as far as I can tell Jim seems okay with what Stark did, so I don't think it's much of an issue.

  9. #609
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    If Jim himself had a problem with what Stark did and he was doing it against Jim's wishes I might have more issues with it. But as far as I can tell Jim seems okay with what Stark did, so I don't think it's much of an issue.
    Jim was refusing to make small talk as Tony reattached his head to his body. I think that's a pretty clear indicator that he was not at all happy with the situation. In Jim's stories, he hates being made into a weapon, this may not be a big thing for Tony, but as a Jim fan, this is big. Especially since it might affect his future. *shrugs* Tony has the all power in this situation, he can and did do what he wanted so regardless if Jim made any protest in the beginning or if Jim changed his mind. Tony did in fact cross a line. Anyways I just hope Jim can go back to his normal body soon.
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  10. #610
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Craig View Post
    Why would Xavier do that to anyone, let alone Namor?
    I'm not reading the book(funds, you know) but following this thread so spoil away.
    It's a great book. A lot of emotion and characterization. Hope you can pick up the trade.


    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    A very young, very green Xavier thought he was helping Namor deal with this WW2 PTSD and survivor's guilt...

    Attachment 84622
    Attachment 84623

    "Tommy" who later morphed into "Machan" in Namor's mind, was originally a soldier assigned to the Invaders. He died during the war and Namor felt guilt over his death. So Xavier thought he'd insert a manifestation of Tommy in Namor's mind from Namor's memories to serve as a counselor. Unfortunately Tommy gradually morphed into Machan, who is a psychopath and is now acting independently of Namor without Namor remembering.

    ...The psychopath part probably came from Mephisto.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
    Anyone happen to know when the first trade comes out for this run of Invaders?
    Amazon has it's release date as August 13. Diamond says July 31, so comic stores are getting it a little earlier.

    https://www.amazon.com/Invaders-Vol-.../dp/1302917498
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  11. #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    If it helps I have a sneaky suspicion that Tony is not acting on his own accord in this. His cry for war with Atlantis is eerily similar to the Russians in the UN meeting crying for war, and the Squadron Supreme craving it in the Avengers book. He's probably being influenced by Mephisto. Tony's pretty ooc in this and Zdarsky is far too good of a writer for that not to be intentional and a plot device.
    Didn't think about that. I just thought he was being written as ... way too inflexible and angry, especially for someone that, as Bucky said, has a terrible track record when dealing with the Atlanteans. I hope he IS under the influence.



    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Honestly its a bit surprising Tony is being so hard on Steve. Technically T'Challa is in charge of the Avengers. So it's not actually Steve's call.
    Tony has no room to talk that way, considering what he's done against Atlantis. Even within this story, he's making the situation worse / playing into Namor's plans. He's needs to dial it back a bit.

    It also contradicts his behavior in Robinson's SS book.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
    Tony is definitely OOC here. Namor has been written OOC before as well. You just have to understand that and let it past.
    I'm trying to adopt a "let's wait and see" stance on this. Things are definitely off.
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  12. #612
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    OK so before reading this issue, my biggest worry was that Tony would reprogram Jim into a weapon to be used against the Invaders and Namor, but what he did imo, is so much worse. Jim Hammond has always fought against people who wanted to use him as a weapon, and tried so hard to be a good man and a human. That Tony gave him an iron man body is sickening. It strips him of his humanity and brands him as an extension of Tony. I just really hate this and at this point I have absolutely no desire to ever see Tony again. Sorry not sorry but Jim is one of my all time favorite characters and Tony not repairing his old body and just slapping a fire symbol on a iron man robot has me done with Tony's character.

    I didn't think about that -- but I scanned the issue quickly at lunch and need to actually read it again. But like I said, I'm going to adopt a wait and see stance. The bit from the solicitation for next issue IS worrying. I really wish Zdarsky didn't have Namor rip Jim's head off last issue. But that was certainly something else that falls into the Things Namor Would Never Do basket -- and was another clue about the Machan infection being far worse than we thought.
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  13. #613
    Incredible Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    Didn't think about that. I just thought he was being written as ... way too inflexible and angry, especially for someone that, as Bucky said, has a terrible track record when dealing with the Atlanteans. I hope he IS under the influence.
    Agree that Tony has a terrible track record when dealing with Atlantis (ugh, Civil War). But Mephisto's chess board in that last Avengers issue (#21) with all the little figures of all the players set up: re: the Avengers, the Squadron Supreme, the Winter Guard, Namor and the vampires is what has me suspect. You've got the SS and the WG claiming war is inevitable in Avengers, you have the Russians doing the same in today's Invaders issue, demanding it at the UN meeting and eerily similar words coming out of Tony's mouth this entire Invaders run, just sort of screams like they're all inadvertently reciting a script not of their own making. Then with Zdarsky confirming he's following Aaron's thread in a lot of ways, it just sort of all comes together. But I could be wrong. You're right to adopt a wait and see approach. It'll be fascinating to see how it plays out.

  14. #614
    Incredible Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    Agree that Tony has a terrible track record when dealing with Atlantis (ugh, Civil War). But Mephisto's chess board in that last Avengers issue (#21) with all the little figures of all the players set up: re: the Avengers, the Squadron Supreme, the Winter Guard, Namor and the vampires is what has me suspect. You've got the SS and the WG claiming war is inevitable in Avengers, you have the Russians doing the same in today's Invaders issue, demanding it at the UN meeting and eerily similar words coming out of Tony's mouth this entire Invaders run, just sort of screams like they're all inadvertently reciting a script not of their own making. Then with Zdarsky confirming he's following Aaron's thread in a lot of ways, it just sort of all comes together. But I could be wrong. You're right to adopt a wait and see approach. It'll be fascinating to see how it plays out.
    And speaking of Mephisto's chess board, Moon Knight is also on it. That's interesting.

    Avengers21.jpg

  15. #615
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Jim was refusing to make small talk as Tony reattached his head to his body. I think that's a pretty clear indicator that he was not at all happy with the situation. In Jim's stories, he hates being made into a weapon, this may not be a big thing for Tony, but as a Jim fan, this is big. Especially since it might affect his future. *shrugs* Tony has the all power in this situation, he can and did do what he wanted so regardless if Jim made any protest in the beginning or if Jim changed his mind. Tony did in fact cross a line. Anyways I just hope Jim can go back to his normal body soon.
    Obviously he's not happy about a situation where his body got blown up. But that's not the same thing as not being happy with what Stark is doing. If that were the case, I would imagine he would flat out say so rather than just give Stark the silent treatment.

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