Invaders (2019)

[capandkirby]

Marvel just published an interview with Chip on the Invaders run...

https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...inkId=62682130

[Frontier]

The cover for Invaders #4...

Attachment 77383

...looks like this is the issue where we find out what Xavier has to do with it all.

This is really cool cover art.

This makes me miss Namor's old looks...

[responsarbre]

Finally got around to Invaders (I've been super behind on my reading), and I was really impressed by it. It's the kind of first issue that makes me want to read fifty more installments. (And it definitely made me more excited for Zdarsky's upcoming work on Daredevil.)

Butch Guice's sections were also really well inked and colored; his art had been coming out kind of dull lately because they keep on pairing him with bad inkers and colorists. This was the best his pencils have been made to look since his stint on Winter Soldier.

[MajorHoy]

If you go back and look at the interactions between Namor and Bucky, since Brubaker, they actually have a relationship, . . .

If you go back to the original Invaders run in the 1970s, you even see a bit of that in the fact that Namor teaches Bucky how to fly his (Namor's) flagship flying craft.

Some people asked Chip about bringing in the other members, Toro, Spitfire, etc. but he said he was keeping this war ghost arc very tight . . .

. . . that's not the focus in this first issue, the focus is a Namor who is loved by the his brothers-in-arms, all of whom want to save him (except poor Toro, wherever he is... I don't read or follow the Inhumans, did Toro die with the rest of them?)

...I'm still curious to know how Toro was effected by all the Inhuman fiasco. Does anyone know this? Did Marvel even say?

. . . Toro was retconned into an Inhuman in the All New Invaders, he pops up from time to time like in squadron supreme and is shown with Black Blot and the royal family but I don't think they have done anything with him other than say he is there now. It's really something I am not happy about because I would rather he have stayed a mutant and is closer to Jim since he and Jim have that Father and son bond.

The fact that, aside from some variant covers, Toro was IGNORED in this issue really bothered me.
From the introduction on the first page

Captain America and Bucky Barnes! Namor the Sub-Mariner! The Original Human Torch, Jim Hammond! During the darkest hours of World War II, these four banded together as The Invaders - - to battle the Axis Powers to the death, in the name of freedom!

Yes, I know others joined the team during the war, but Toro was there from DAY ONE! He might not have been used for the present-day parts of the story, but his name was NEVER mentioned (at least that I can recall) and, aside from variant covers, he wasn't even drawn into any of the flashback scenes during the war?

Also, regarding this look for Namor from back in the 1970s,

and comments discussing his "fashion sense", like

This is such a good one! You know years later when Bucky wears the captain suit he asks Namor about it too and when I read that I remembered this panel! lol, why is everyone asking Namor about how their suits look? Over the years Namor's sense of fashion has been... interesting XD. Oh Namor why won't you notice Steve's new look? He worked hard on it.

Back when Namor first started wearing that outfit (Sub-Mariner #67, cover-dated November 1973), it was actually designed to help him survive when he was spending time out of the water.

[ImperiusWrecked]

The fact that, aside from some variant covers, Toro was IGNORED in this issue really bothered me.
From the introduction on the first pageYes, I know others joined the team during the war, but Toro was there from DAY ONE! He might not have been used for the present-day parts of the story, but his name was NEVER mentioned (at least that I can recall) and, aside from variant covers, he wasn't even drawn into any of the flashback scenes during the war?

Also, regarding this look for Namor from back in the 1970s,
and comments discussing his "fashion sense", likeBack when Namor first started wearing that outfit (Sub-Mariner #67, cover-dated November 1973), it was actually designed to help him survive when he was spending time out of the water.

Toro was totally ignored in the last Invaders too and then retconned into being an inhuman and shoved off into comic limbo. I really hate that a lot because why is Toro alive and well and Jim too and they aren't at least speaking or working together? Toro was there during the war and he was the only Invader to survive living after the war, no amnesia, no frozen in ice, no being decommissioned etc. So he would have a much better recall of things that happened. Toro was Bucky's best friend and Jim's son and he was a good and valuable member of the Invaders, I wish that Chip would bring him in but he said not until later and that could mean a one panel cameo. or whatever. But he should at least be included in the flashback scenes even if he doesn't talk.

I remember that run, it was said the belt was left intentionally blank so that Namor got a big 'reveal' moment with Neptune inscribing the trident in a later issue. As I recall that suit failed later to keep him alive because of Doctor Doom and Reed couldn't fix it so he ended up going back to Doom to live/he gave his oath to serve him to protect his people. I love the super villain team up a lot! So yes we can place this fashion disaster on Reed for designing it. lol

Thanks for the link to the article CapandKirby! I hope Invaders gets a lot of press to keep the series going.

[capandkirby]

Toro was totally ignored in the last Invaders too and then retconned into being an inhuman and shoved off into comic limbo. I really hate that a lot because why is Toro alive and well and Jim too and they aren't at least speaking or working together? Toro was there during the war and he was the only Invader to survive living after the war, no amnesia, no frozen in ice, no being decommissioned etc. So he would have a much better recall of things that happened. Toro was Bucky's best friend and Jim's son and he was a good and valuable member of the Invaders, I wish that Chip would bring him in but he said not until later and that could mean a one panel cameo. or whatever. But he should at least be included in the flashback scenes even if he doesn't talk.

I remember that run, it was said the belt was left intentionally blank so that Namor got a big 'reveal' moment with Neptune inscribing the trident in a later issue. As I recall that suit failed later to keep him alive because of Doctor Doom and Reed couldn't fix it so he ended up going back to Doom to live/he gave his oath to serve him to protect his people. I love the super villain team up a lot! So yes we can place this fashion disaster on Reed for designing it. lol

Thanks for the link to the article CapandKirby! I hope Invaders gets a lot of press to keep the series going.

I didn't follow the whole Death of the Inhumans storyline, so I have no idea what went down there, but I know it ended not too long ago. November 2018, I think? I only know about it because I follow the monthly solicitations and the sales. I just hope Toro wasn't caught up in any of that, whatever 'that' was.

I've been promoting Invaders to everyone I know, including all the guys at work who I know also read comics. So there's that.

[Adset]

I hear that. I remember buying the regular and variant cover to Captain America: Sentinel of Liberty #2 because when I saw them both at the shop my first thought was oh man maybe if this sells really well Marvel will give the Invaders another chance. I can't recall if Cap: SoL came before or after the brief Marvel Universe run, but it had been several years since The Invaders mini-series and I was desperate for my favorite team to come back. Ah, youth.

I also remember being horrified when they released The New Invaders years later because I thought it was *awful* and I thought it would be a death knell for any future projects. I still bought it, and tried recommending it to people, but yikes.

[James Hunter]

I've just read my comic of INVADERS #1 (I don't get my comics weekly and I'm behind in reading of what I DO have too!) and I loved it! I'm surpriised at Charles Xavier's apparent involvement with Namor (and his apparent alzheimers) and I'm very curious to see where that goes.

Nothing Xavier does surprises me and I'm curious to see what involvement he's had with Namor (its a retcon which COULD work IMHO).

[Reviresco]

I've just read my comic of INVADERS #1 (I don't get my comics weekly and I'm behind in reading of what I DO have too!) and I loved it! I'm surpriised at Charles Xavier's apparent involvement with Namor (and his apparent alzheimers) and I'm very curious to see where that goes.

Nothing Xavier does surprises me and I'm curious to see what involvement he's had with Namor (its a retcon which COULD work IMHO).

Alzheimers? I don't think that's Namor's problem right now. I'm also not so keen on the whole "mad king" business. But there's definitely something wrong with Namor, and it has some obvious physical manifestations, which I don't understand why more characters aren't commenting on.

But I'm curious about the Xavier connection, and I hope it fixes, as much as possible, the nonsense of Namor's Hobo Years being over half a century long. Originally, it was supposed to be a year or two max, but for some reason, people don't apply the sliding timeline to that era of Namor's life.

[MajorHoy]

. . . I hope it fixes, as much as possible, the nonsense of Namor's Hobo Years being over half a century long. Originally, it was supposed to be a year or two max, but for some reason, people don't apply the sliding timeline to that era of Namor's life.

The problem may be that Namor has a fixed-date towards the beginning of his timeline: World War II.
That date also is a part of Steve Rogers' timeline, but the period when he was on ice can be extended to whenever it's convenient in terms of the overall Marvel sliding timeline. (Namor doesn't quite have that advantage.)

[ImperiusWrecked]

Alzheimers? I don't think that's Namor's problem right now. I'm also not so keen on the whole "mad king" business. But there's definitely something wrong with Namor, and it has some obvious physical manifestations, which I don't understand why more characters aren't commenting on.

But I'm curious about the Xavier connection, and I hope it fixes, as much as possible, the nonsense of Namor's Hobo Years being over half a century long. Originally, it was supposed to be a year or two max, but for some reason, people don't apply the sliding timeline to that era of Namor's life.

I am anxious about this though simply because I don't want Zdarsky to retcon anything big especially the history but if he is offering insight into what happened in Namor's lost years then that could be interesting, those years haven't been explored at all in depth. One comic, Tales of the Marvels: Inner Demons gives us Namor's POV from a bystanders telling of what happened before Johnny showed up and helped him find his memories.

The problem may be that Namor has a fixed-date towards the beginning of his timeline: World War II.
That date also is a part of Steve Rogers' timeline, but the period when he was on ice can be extended to whenever it's convenient in terms of the overall Marvel sliding timeline. (Namor doesn't quite have that advantage.)

Steve and Namor do have that problem, Jim too. But for Jim they can just say he was decommissioned or destroyed etc. for any missing years since he is an Android. And like you said Steve was in ice etc.

Namor is harder because he was alive during the time in between the end of the war and the start of the official Marvel Universe timeline with the Fantastic Four. Because Namor is long lived then it is now basically stretching out his amnesia for the decades inbetween to explain it rather than going the by the old route of Destiny and all of that. Something else that is hard as well is how Magneto is also connected to WWll and the further the years are from that the older Magneto gets, but these fixed timelines play a huge part of the character's history. Still we could have a whole new era of Namor adventures that could take place in these lost years, I mean Namor could have regained his memories at some point but had them taken away again by Xavier and we all know that is something the Professor would do if there was a reason for it.

[MajorHoy]

. . . Something else that is hard as well is how Magneto is also connected to WWll and the further the years are from that the older Magneto gets . . .

But wasn't Magneto de-aged into a baby at one point and later slightly re-aged into an adult (but still younger than he had been)?

At least I think I remember something like that back in the late 1980s or possibly early 1990s.

[Reviresco]

The problem may be that Namor has a fixed-date towards the beginning of his timeline: World War II.
That date also is a part of Steve Rogers' timeline, but the period when he was on ice can be extended to whenever it's convenient in terms of the overall Marvel sliding timeline. (Namor doesn't quite have that advantage.)

The WWII stuff isn't the problem, it's dating the beginning of Namor's Hobo Years. Namor would have the same advantage as Steve, if the beginning of the Hobo Years hadn't been referenced in Avengers 1959, and Byrne's First Line (which thankfully seems to be largely ignored), and the horror of The First X-Men. If they tied the Hobo Years to the sliding timeline, (i.e. a year or two before FF #1) just as they do with the discovery of Captain Ice Cube, then it wouldn't be a problem. Plus, they could then have a 50+ years empty playground to set undersea adventures.

I am anxious about this though simply because I don't want Zdarsky to retcon anything big especially the history but if he is offering insight into what happened in Namor's lost years then that could be interesting, those years haven't been explored at all in depth. One comic, Tales of the Marvels: Inner Demons gives us Namor's POV from a bystanders telling of what happened before Johnny showed up and helped him find his memories.

I agree. If it fixes the problem with the length of the Hobo Years, and gives us more time for Namor adventures, that would be great. But I don't want a big retcon of what's been published. First Line is supposed to have some stuff too, and Namor isn't a hobo, but has amnesia, but I haven't read the whole thing, and seems largely ignored. It seemed a bit confusing. There's also the mess of the First X-Men, which is better off being ignored / considered AU. I hope Zdarsky isn't drawing from that. O_O

Steve and Namor do have that problem, Jim too. But for Jim they can just say he was decommissioned or destroyed etc. for any missing years since he is an Android. And like you said Steve was in ice etc.

Namor is harder because he was alive during the time in between the end of the war and the start of the official Marvel Universe timeline with the Fantastic Four. Because Namor is long lived then it is now basically stretching out his amnesia for the decades inbetween to explain it rather than going the by the old route of Destiny and all of that. Something else that is hard as well is how Magneto is also connected to WWll and the further the years are from that the older Magneto gets, but these fixed timelines play a huge part of the character's history. Still we could have a whole new era of Namor adventures that could take place in these lost years, I mean Namor could have regained his memories at some point but had them taken away again by Xavier and we all know that is something the Professor would do if there was a reason for it.

IIRC, that's exactly what happened with Jim's post Golden Age, pre-Silver Age appearance. Jim's 'problem' is the convoluted connection to Vision that Roy Thomas constructed, and then John Byrne 'fixed.'

Magneto was de-aged twice, I believe. But that doesn't help the fact that the further along the MU goes, the older Magneto (and Xavier) would have to be before his first Silver Age appearance. If the X-Men appeared ten years ago, then Magneto, when he faced them the first time, would have been ... in his late 70s early 80s, I believe.

It's also a problem for Toro. I think he was de-aged when he was resurrected in Avengers Invaders, but he had an appearance post FF#1, in Sub-Mariner #14. So, like Magneto, because of the sliding timeline, Toro would have been in his late 70s or early 80s during Sub-Mariner #14, when he was passing himself off as the Original Human Torch -- something he obviously couldn't do if he'd been that old.

Toro's wife, Anne Raymond also is a problem, because Byrne brought her back as a love interest for Jim. And then there's Betty Dean, who also survived into the Silver Age with multiple appearances.

[Reviresco]

But wasn't Magneto de-aged into a baby at one point and later slightly re-aged into an adult (but still younger than he had been)?

At least I think I remember something like that back in the late 1980s or possibly early 1990s.

Yes, but as I said, the de-aging happened AFTER he'd appeared in numerous Silver Age stories, which now take place in 2006? according to the sliding timeline. His first appearance in X-Men would have been when he was in his late 70s or early 80s.

[Photon Torme]

Maybe the Invaders could try to liberate Latervia at some point. That might be a fun long term mission. Doom would have to do something really provocative first I guess.