Invaders (2019)

[Thor-El]

Rev, that little nod to Everett you pointed out? I wrote a tweet about it, and Zdarsky replied saying he loved it too and that it was Butch who did that! I found that was very awesome! Link

Very cool nod to Bill Everett by Guice.

[Reviresco]

Yes, its also interesting that when the characters were relaunched the first time by Timely Captain America's title only lasted two issues while Namor lasted a bit longer. Proof of the higher popularity of Namor at that time.

I'd like to think that, or that Bill Everett's art just wowed the money out of everyone's pocket. But I think most historians think Atlas Timely being in negotiations for a Subby TV show at that time was the reason for more Sub-Mariner comics being produced.

[Coatl]

Chuck is getting a lot of past sins exposed if that is the case. Unless they can spin it for a good reason.

I never thought of Charles as the saint that many people thought he was, since the original X-men when I saw him lusting around her 16 years old student. He erasing someone memories for his own convenience wouldn't be the first time.


Besides this I know it's a bit late but have to said it, what a wonderful Issue, I wish other titles had the same quality that this one. Every time seems more obvious that Namor is not well, but seeing Captain america still wanting to help an old friend instead of just drop the friendship and thrown a "preventive attack" or plainly to star war is perhaps the most heroic thing he has done in a while (part of the reasons that make me dislike event as Civil War and AvX was actually how supposed friends were so quick to attack each other instead of trying find common ground and act as the Heroes they are supposed to be) I'm not the biggest fan of Steve but here I found him relatable and smart.

Also I don't know what problems pass for Namor head but seeing him crying after his friend's death was heartwarming in some sense.

[Reviresco]

I never thought of Charles as the saint that many people thought he was, since the original X-men when I saw him lusting around her 16 years old student. He erasing someone memories for his own convenience wouldn't be the first time.


Besides this I know it's a bit late but have to said it, what a wonderful Issue, I wish other titles had the same quality that this one. Every time seems more obvious that Namor is not well, but seeing Captain america still wanting to help an old friend instead of just drop the friendship and thrown a "preventive attack" or plainly to star war is perhaps the most heroic thing he has done in a while (part of the reasons that make me dislike event as Civil War and AvX was actually how supposed friends were so quick to attack each other instead of trying find common ground and act as the Heroes they are supposed to be) I'm not the biggest fan of Steve but here I found him relatable and smart.

Also I don't know what problems pass for Namor head but seeing him crying after his friend's death was heartwarming in some sense.

That was panel was just full of feels. We are indeed fortunate that Zdarsky said he wasn't interested in writing Namor as a villain.

I don't expect characters to be written in character for events any more. I've seen more twisting and contrivance to fit characters into awful plots, time after time. That said, at least with AvX we did get a nice story of Cap trying to talk to Phoenix Namor, as an Invader, even if that was a bit too late. I'm still stunned we got that, from Bendis of all people.

I have to agree with you on Invaders having great quality. It's a refreshing emotional oasis in a sea of ... well, less than touching, character driven books.

[ImperiusWrecked]

I never thought of Charles as the saint that many people thought he was, since the original X-men when I saw him lusting around her 16 years old student. He erasing someone memories for his own convenience wouldn't be the first time.


Besides this I know it's a bit late but have to said it, what a wonderful Issue, I wish other titles had the same quality that this one. Every time seems more obvious that Namor is not well, but seeing Captain america still wanting to help an old friend instead of just drop the friendship and thrown a "preventive attack" or plainly to star war is perhaps the most heroic thing he has done in a while (part of the reasons that make me dislike event as Civil War and AvX was actually how supposed friends were so quick to attack each other instead of trying find common ground and act as the Heroes they are supposed to be) I'm not the biggest fan of Steve but here I found him relatable and smart.

Also I don't know what problems pass for Namor head but seeing him crying after his friend's death was heartwarming in some sense.

Much of Xavier's good mentor stuff i feel is something that trickled down from the movies, comic Xavier is very much a character that is/can be dark and does use his abilities to control people if he has to/needs to. Seeing what happens between him and Namor will be interesting because other than them barely talking in the Illuminati, and even when Namor was with the X-Men before the phoenix, he spoke briefly with Xavier in his 2007 comic, and then the only other time I can think about them interacting is their first meeting (though now it would be retconned if he met Namor during his amnesia years) back in Uncanny X-Men (1963) #6. He doesn't care about helping Namor and even says 'yeah he may be a mutant but he still isn't one of us because he is atlantean' which if he was supposed to be about all mutants coming together then excluding Namor is a bad way of going about that.

[ImperiusWrecked]

That was panel was just full of feels. We are indeed fortunate that Zdarsky said he wasn't interested in writing Namor as a villain.

I don't expect characters to be written in character for events any more. I've seen more twisting and contrivance to fit characters into awful plots, time after time. That said, at least with AvX we did get a nice story of Cap trying to talk to Phoenix Namor, as an Invader, even if that was a bit too late. I'm still stunned we got that, from Bendis of all people.

I have to agree with you on Invaders having great quality. It's a refreshing emotional oasis in a sea of ... well, less than touching, character driven books.

Excellent quality so far! I would even say that after reading Invaders, I'm full of emOCEANS.

I feel Events are the death of any good characterization and storytelling, because everyone has to be twisted to fit the story. Marvel doesnt give any comic enough time to really reach any kind of potential before pulling them into an event and most comics have a 6 to 12 issue axe date unless its doing really really well and even then its not guaranteed it will continue without a all new all different title etc.

[Reviresco]

Excellent quality so far! I would even say that after reading Invaders, I'm full of emOCEANS.

I feel Events are the death of any good characterization and storytelling, because everyone has to be twisted to fit the story. Marvel doesnt give any comic enough time to really reach any kind of potential before pulling them into an event and most comics have a 6 to 12 issue axe date unless its doing really really well and even then its not guaranteed it will continue without a all new all different title etc.

Oh no! It's the Sea Puns! LOL!

Yes, Marvel's publishing strategy ... well, for at least a decade, hasn't been all that helpful in building audiences, IMO. It's all about the TV / Film shows now.

[Reviresco]

Needless to say, I'm very excited about tomorrow. I may have to reach out to my old comic book guy and get a hint of how happy, or sad, I'll be.

That said, has anyone heard anything from Zdarsky about Arc Two? I do think we'll get one, considering the book is outselling some other ... more established titles. Alternatively, what do folks want to see in the second arc?

[capandkirby]

Needless to say, I'm very excited about tomorrow. I may have to reach out to my old comic book guy and get a hint of how happy, or sad, I'll be.

That said, has anyone heard anything from Zdarsky about Arc Two? I do think we'll get one, considering the book is outselling some other ... more established titles. Alternatively, what do folks want to see in the second arc?

Maybe I'm not remembering correctly so I could be wrong here, but I think Zdarsky hinted that the next arc would involve Toro. One of the people I follow on twitter (was that you, ImperiusWrecked?) asked Zdarsky why Toro wasn't at Steve and Bucky's funeral in the WW2 flashback scene of issue #2 and Zdarsky answered that Toro didn't truly believe they were dead (well done, there, Toro, you're psychic) and that he had plans for Toro in the next arc.

I'm with you 100%, very excited about tomorrow's issue.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Maybe I'm not remembering correctly so I could be wrong here, but I think Zdarsky hinted that the next arc would involve Toro. One of the people I follow on twitter (was that you, ImperiusWrecked?) asked Zdarsky why Toro wasn't at Steve and Bucky's funeral in the WW2 flashback scene of issue #2 and Zdarsky answered that Toro didn't truly believe they were dead (well done, there, Toro, you're psychic) and that he had plans for Toro in the next arc.

I'm with you 100%, very excited about tomorrow's issue.

Yes, it was me! I did ask Zdarsky about Toro! Link

Toro didn't believe Bucky was dead so he was searching for him!!!

(I'll get to Toro, don't worry. Making a conscious decision to not have him for this first part)

I am very excited about tomorrow! (and nervous too!)

[ImperiusWrecked]

Needless to say, I'm very excited about tomorrow. I may have to reach out to my old comic book guy and get a hint of how happy, or sad, I'll be.

That said, has anyone heard anything from Zdarsky about Arc Two? I do think we'll get one, considering the book is outselling some other ... more established titles. Alternatively, what do folks want to see in the second arc?

More NAMOR AND JIM! I want to see more of their friendship, this first arc is great for Steve, and I love how Zdarsky tells about Steve's fear of water etc. but we have had Jim very off on the sidelines. I would Love more Jim and Toro! They haven't been on panel together in a long time! Also more Bucky and Toro.

[Reviresco]

Maybe I'm not remembering correctly so I could be wrong here, but I think Zdarsky hinted that the next arc would involve Toro. One of the people I follow on twitter (was that you, ImperiusWrecked?) asked Zdarsky why Toro wasn't at Steve and Bucky's funeral in the WW2 flashback scene of issue #2 and Zdarsky answered that Toro didn't truly believe they were dead (well done, there, Toro, you're psychic) and that he had plans for Toro in the next arc.

I'm with you 100%, very excited about tomorrow's issue.

Toro? I could see him exploring him and Bucky ... or maybe Jim Hammond. Though, I'm not that fond of the Inhumans business.

I wonder if THIS issue will be the Guice issue, like 3 was the Magno issue? So. Very. Excited.

Yes, it was me! I did ask Zdarsky about Toro! Link

I am very excited about tomorrow! (and nervous too!)

Ah! Thank you for the link, and for asking!

I wonder if he was joking or if Toro searching for Cap and Bucky in the past might have something to do with the new arc?

More NAMOR AND JIM! I want to see more of their friendship, this first arc is great for Steve, and I love how Zdarsky tells about Steve's fear of water etc. but we have had Jim very off on the sidelines. I would Love more Jim and Toro! They haven't been on panel together in a long time! Also more Bucky and Toro.

Well, of course, I'd LOVE more Namor. And I wouldn't mind seeing more with Jim and Namor, because they are great together. But I understand there's more to the Invaders than just my fav.

Now that I've had time to think about it ... I wouldn't mind seeing something with the British Invaders (and Namor, of course.) I think Robinson short changed them in the last run. And I love Union Jack and Spitfire, especially.

[XPac]

Much of Xavier's good mentor stuff i feel is something that trickled down from the movies, comic Xavier is very much a character that is/can be dark and does use his abilities to control people if he has to/needs to. Seeing what happens between him and Namor will be interesting because other than them barely talking in the Illuminati, and even when Namor was with the X-Men before the phoenix, he spoke briefly with Xavier in his 2007 comic, and then the only other time I can think about them interacting is their first meeting (though now it would be retconned if he met Namor during his amnesia years) back in Uncanny X-Men (1963) #6. He doesn't care about helping Namor and even says 'yeah he may be a mutant but he still isn't one of us because he is atlantean' which if he was supposed to be about all mutants coming together then excluding Namor is a bad way of going about that.

Yeah, this latest issues retcons definately adds to Xavier and Namors history. They were buddies for a bit at least. Which is a contrast to them barely saying a world to each other in their previous interaction. But I suppose that happens a lot if comic retcons.

I wonder if because of this, Namor will be more involved with Xavier and the X-Men down the line.

[Reviresco]

I'm not sure if we have to wait till noon to talk about new comics in an established thread?? But a few quick bits.


OMG! Did Zdarsky just spoilers:

KILL Bucky?

end of spoilers


I do love Butch Guice's Namor.


Nice twist at the end.


Only had time for a quick scan, and I'm not sure exactly how I feel about it regarding Namor. OTOH, it isn't a HUGE retcon. It wasn't really earth shattering nor will it effect It's stuff that can be used or ignored, IMO. My two biggest beefs are Marvel trying to cement in a decades long absence from Atlantis and the dereliction of duty. And second, that it ignores all of Namor's cast and friends, which I don't like, to make him wholly reliant on the Petersons. And I really don't see why Nay, or Namor, thinks this and Xavier connection is such a big deal.


Oh. Wait. I think I see where this is going. What Namor REALLY intends to do. Interesting.

BIG SPOILER / SPECULATION

spoilers:

Every one, including his friends assumes Namor intends to KILL all surface men. But instead, I think what Namor's trying to do what Genus did -- change the entire race of surface dwellers into ... water breathers!

end of spoilers

Yeah, this latest issues retcons definately adds to Xavier and Namors history. They were buddies for a bit at least. Which is a contrast to them barely saying a world to each other in their previous interaction. But I suppose that happens a lot if comic retcons.

I wonder if because of this, Namor will be more involved with Xavier and the X-Men down the line.

I don't think so. Especially if Zdarsky is trying to blame Xavier for some of Namor's ... issues.

I think this retcon sort of makes Xavier's behavior in and the purpose of X-Men #6 ... beyond strange.

[XPac]

I'm not sure if we have to wait till noon to talk about new comics in an established thread?? But a few quick bits.


OMG! Did Zdarsky just spoilers:

KILL Bucky?

end of spoilers


I do love Butch Guice's Namor.


Nice twist at the end.


Only had time for a quick scan, and I'm not sure exactly how I feel about it regarding Namor. OTOH, it isn't a HUGE retcon. It wasn't really earth shattering nor will it effect It's stuff that can be used or ignored, IMO. My biggest beef is that it ignores all of Namor's cast and friends, which I don't like, to make him wholly reliant on the Petersons. And I really don't see why Nay, or Namor, thinks this and Xavier connection is such a big deal.


Oh. Wait. I think I see where this is going. What Namor REALLY intends to do. Interesting.

BIG SPOILER / SPECULATION

spoilers:

Every one, including his friends assumes Namor intends to KILL all surface men. But instead, I think what Namor's trying to do what Genus did -- change the entire race of surface dwellers into ... water breathers!

end of spoilers




I don't think so. Especially if Zdarsky is trying to blame Xavier for some of Namor's ... issues.

I think this retcon sort of makes Xavier's behavior in and the purpose of X-Men #6 ... beyond strange.

That does seem to be trend... blaming Xavier for something that happened in the past.

I do think the Petersons are interesting, in that if they were ever to create a Namor movie they could really be the basis of it. I could totaly see his relationship with some human family being the core of the movie as far as his conflict with the surface and world and the sea. It's a bit forced in the comics... but I think it's a potentially useful retcon.

As far as the shocker at the end... geez. Hopefully she had really really really bad aim.