Invaders (2019)

[capandkirby]

I'm not sure if we have to wait till noon to talk about new comics in an established thread?? But a few quick bits.


OMG! Did Zdarsky just spoilers:

KILL Bucky?

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spoilers:

Pretty sure that Bucky handed her that gun in the last issue, though I'll have to double check. I think those are blanks.

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I do love Butch Guice's Namor.


Nice twist at the end.


Only had time for a quick scan, and I'm not sure exactly how I feel about it regarding Namor. OTOH, it isn't a HUGE retcon. It wasn't really earth shattering nor will it effect It's stuff that can be used or ignored, IMO. My two biggest beefs are Marvel trying to cement in a decades long absence from Atlantis and the dereliction of duty. And second, that it ignores all of Namor's cast and friends, which I don't like, to make him wholly reliant on the Petersons. And I really don't see why Nay, or Namor, thinks this and Xavier connection is such a big deal.


Oh. Wait. I think I see where this is going. What Namor REALLY intends to do. Interesting.

BIG SPOILER / SPECULATION

spoilers:

Every one, including his friends assumes Namor intends to KILL all surface men. But instead, I think what Namor's trying to do what Genus did -- change the entire race of surface dwellers into ... water breathers!

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spoilers:

That's an interesting idea. I kind of love that, actually. I mean, Genus was doing it because he was lonely, so the idea of Namor doing it, if for similar reasons, is really particularly heartbreaking. Now I'm going to be disappointed if Zdarsky doesn't go that route.

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[capandkirby]

Really great issue. I love that Zdarsky is addressing the issue of PTSD. Be neat to see him do it with all the Invaders. I know Bucky has been seeing a therapist in the recent Winter Soldier run, but honestly, its probably something all of those boys should have done AGES ago. Would have saved them so much grief.

And Charles, you are NOT a licensed therapist, so quite trying to act like one. Bad things happen whenever you do.

[XPac]

spoilers:

Pretty sure that Bucky handed her that gun in the last issue, though I'll have to double check. I think those are blanks.

end of spoilers




spoilers:

That's an interesting idea. I kind of love that, actually. I mean, Genus was doing it because he was lonely, so the idea of Namor doing it, if for similar reasons, is really particularly heartbreaking. Now I'm going to be disappointed if Zdarsky doesn't go that route.

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spoilers:

Even if the gun was blanks, you'd think she'd notice if Bucky was bleeding from the gunshot though. But we'll see... i'm sure one way or another Bucky isn't going to die.

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[Reviresco]

That does seem to be trend... blaming Xavier for something that happened in the past.

I do think the Petersons are interesting, in that if they were ever to create a Namor movie they could really be the basis of it. I could totaly see his relationship with some human family being the core of the movie as far as his conflict with the surface and world and the sea. It's a bit forced in the comics... but I think it's a potentially useful retcon.

As far as the shocker at the end... geez. Hopefully she had really really really bad aim.

No kidding! There would be a riot, if Zdarsky did that to spoilers:

Bucky.

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Don't get me wrong, I love his relationship with the Petersons. I just think Zdarsky is ignoring the fact that Namor does have friends, surface friends, even if he doesn't have many, who he would have turned to. But I can put that down to the narrator. It's all told from Nay's POV, so that's how she saw it.

Yep. That does seem to be Xavier's role of late.

[capandkirby]

spoilers:

Even if the gun was blanks, you'd think she'd notice if Bucky was bleeding from the gunshot though. But we'll see... i'm sure one way or another Bucky isn't going to die.

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spoilers:

In the last Invaders book, All New Invaders, they sort of established that Bucky was the one to always play possum in Invaders plans. He complained about always having to be the one to 'die', so this could be a wink and nod from Zdarsky. Plus, wasn't Bucky the one that told her to shoot him in that last issue?

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[Reviresco]

spoilers:

Pretty sure that Bucky handed her that gun in the last issue, though I'll have to double check. I think those are blanks.

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Ah, good catch. Paranoia pays! Though ...

spoilers:

Even if the gun was blanks, you'd think she'd notice if Bucky was bleeding from the gunshot though. But we'll see... i'm sure one way or another Bucky isn't going to die.

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Well, you can still spoilers:

get wounded and even die from blanks.

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spoilers:

That's an interesting idea. I kind of love that, actually. I mean, Genus was doing it because he was lonely, so the idea of Namor doing it, if for similar reasons, is really particularly heartbreaking. Now I'm going to be disappointed if Zdarsky doesn't go that route.

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Not entirely similar reasons. I mean, the destruction of the oceans, the constant conflict with the surface dwellers, etc. are motivators also. I think another clue may be spoilers:

that Namor has turned Tommy into an Atlantean in his mind.

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Of course, my problem with this idea, is that I don't think Namor would ever do such a thing. There was a villain who tried the same thing, spoilers:

and did it to Betty Dean. There was a lot of fall out about the transformed humans, who Namor tried to take in.

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[ImperiusWrecked]

I love that theory Rev! It's much better than my thoughts of Namor being manipulated into killing all the humans so the mutants can survive/dominate the world.

Also agreed CapandKirby, Xavier is not a licensed therapist and him doing this isn't even out of character, he did manipulate Scott for years too, basically molded him from a young teen into a solider for his own agenda.

spoilers:

However as we saw, Xavier did use his powers on Namor, maybe even got him to come along on this quest of his, kept him 'calm' but used his powers in a subtle way, the minute Namor finds out about this, he breaks the hold. Telepaths always underestimate how strong Namor is mentally.

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spoilers: end of spoilers

[ImperiusWrecked]

Not entirely similar reasons. I mean, the destruction of the oceans, the constant conflict with the surface dwellers, etc. are motivators also. I think another clue may be spoilers:

that Namor has turned Tommy into an Atlantean in his mind.

end of spoilers

Of course, my problem with this idea, is that I don't think Namor would ever do such a thing. There was a villain who tried the same thing, spoilers:

and did it to Betty Dean. There was a lot of fall out about the transformed humans, who Namor tried to take in.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I def think that Tommy (as you said changed to atlantean) still has a part of Xavier's thoughts/motivation in him, even though Namor did try to break out of it the mental hold lasted just enough to let Tommy lay there dormant until a huge event awoke that subconscious part of him, maybe the last destruction of Atlanitis and the children dying on the beach etc. Tommy now looks Atlantean because Namor's mind couldn't handle a human looking tommy telling him what to do, it changed to gain Namor's trust, Xaiver planted a therapist in his mind and it probably took on a life of his own, staying in there and just whispering plans to him. Namor may not even know how much control he has over his 'friend' machan because he doesn't think Machan isn't real.

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[capandkirby]

Well, you can still spoilers:

get wounded and even die from blanks.

end of spoilers

True enough. I just think, that because Bucky handed her the gun in the last issue and told her to shoot him, that this is all part of some plan that Steve/Jim/Bucky concocted. They're the Invaders, this sort of trickery is what they do. And not dissimilar to what they did in the last run when invading the Kree homeworld to save Namor.

Not entirely similar reasons. I mean, the destruction of the oceans, the constant conflict with the surface dwellers, etc. are motivators also. I think another clue may be spoilers:

that Namor has turned Tommy into an Atlantean in his mind.

end of spoilers

Ohhh, that's a good point about Tommy. I do think you may be onto something here. Interesting. And I mean, Namor's not exactly in his right mind at the moment, re:Xavier. And I'm guessing his situation has deteriorated over time. So I think that alone would cover the whys of Namor doing something like this. And, if this is truly where Zdarsky is going with it, in one fell swoop he'd also explain away Hickman's Namor, so there's that.

[ImperiusWrecked]

In the beginning Namor only stayed the Petersons maybe a few years? Nay was small when he left, and whose to say he stayed there the whole time? I think Namor wandered or went back to Atlantis and just made lots of visits to the Petersons. Until he was called away permanently. Chip did keep Destiny, and he kept that Namor did have amnesia before meeting Johnny Storm, honestly I can see these events happening, like Namor wandering around, not just New York but other places if he did spend ten (or so) years with amnesia, he would want to find something that seemed familiar and went back to the Petersons. Xavier's mucking about probably undid all the remembering that Namor achieved and he went back to his default orders of when Destiny manipulated him and took his memories, so he returns to New York.

[ImperiusWrecked]

I honestly love Guice's Namor, the art in this issue was great.



(lol, also this was just added to my panel collection of Namor being shaved by Johnny's fire powers)

[Godlike13]

Bucky better be ok.

[Reviresco]

After reading it again ... a few questions.

WHO is Roman's dad? And why didn't he and Nay get married?

WHY is Ana working for the Atlanteans / Roman?

WHAT exactly did Namor do to help the Peterson's, as Nay keeps on insisting he did? And most importantly ...

WHY does Nay keep insisting Namor wear clothes?

[Thor-El]

This was a great issue. I was worried Zdarsky was going to use Xavier as a scapegoat to retcon Namor's mischaracterizations and while doing so mischaracterize Xavier but I'm happy to see that is not the case. Xavier only did stuff he has done before with other characters, without malice and just thinking on the greater good in the heat of the moment. Xavier is not a perfect human being, he has an ability and its second nature to wield that power even if he knows he needs to restrain from using it most of the times and he was younger and inexperienced, he did what he thought he had to do to help at a crucial moment. I really don't place any blame on him.

[ImperiusWrecked]

After reading it again ... a few questions.

WHO is Roman's dad? And why didn't he and Nay get married?

WHY is Ana working for the Atlanteans / Roman?

WHAT exactly did Namor do to help the Peterson's, as Nay keeps on insisting he did? And most importantly ...

WHY does Nay keep insisting Namor wear clothes?

1. It could be as simple as: Roman's father died or Nay and the father split up before the birth or Roman's father abandoned Nay or Nay didn't want to bring the father into her and Roman's life.

2. I think Ana might be the girlfriend of Roman, it makes sense if Roman talked her over to his plan/side since she is a scientist there, they would have had time to meet and just grow close and he brings into whatever he is doing.

3. This is what puzzles me too, I keep coming back to Roman, maybe he is a mutant, he could also be a telepath?

4. I don't know but I don't care for it! lol, it might just be the Peterson's were uncomfortable with Namor walking around in a speedo or he wanted to blend in more?