Invaders (2019)

[Rosebunse]

Really nice issue. Hope we eventually get to catch up on Union Jack and Spitfire. Brubaker did a great job on those two but they weren’t seen much afterward.

Blade is on the Avengers at the moment and nothing says that he and Spitfire broke up. It would be a good time for her to drop in for a visit.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Really nice issue. Hope we eventually get to catch up on Union Jack and Spitfire. Brubaker did a great job on those two but they weren’t seen much afterward.

Blade is on the Avengers at the moment and nothing says that he and Spitfire broke up. It would be a good time for her to drop in for a visit.

Some people asked Chip about bringing in the other members, Toro, Spitfire, etc. but he said he was keeping this war ghost arc very tight and that the others may appear down the line in other arcs. I hope this also implies that he is trying to make Invaders an ongoing rather than a mini or just one year series.

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[capandkirby]

The reason the Invaders work imo is that they became a family through hardship through the war they became brothers and so it's been a LONG time since Namor and Steve have acted like it, and really I hope to see more than just Namor and Steve, I love Jim and I really want to see Jim and Steve interacting more this time around. I personally am very cross with how Aaron is writing Namor and also about how much Namor has been everyone's punching bag for the last ten years (since the phoenix) especially for how they keep trying to push a black panther vs Namor thing. Marvel constantly destroying Atlantis hurts because we never see Atlantis in its full glory, its used as a prop for others to break.

Seeing Steve and Namor hug was tugging at my heart strings honestly. I love the Invaders alot. I really hope that Invaders will focus on the bond between all of them and also we can figure out what is wrong with Namor.

Yeah, the writers have really done Namor dirty the past decade, not just with the AvX/Phoenix possession storyline, but Hickman did a number on him as well in the Incursion storyline. To be fair though, no one came out of the Incursions looking all that great. And you're right that Atlantis is being used as a punching bag. It started with the Civil War Frontline comics and has been a worrying trend ever since. And the bummer of it is that Marvel is sitting on such cool potential with Atlantis. It's a different biosphere, a different culture, a different species, it could lead to some really cool storytelling (and has, in the past) if they would delve deeper into it instead of the lazy approach they've been doing.

And you're right, there needs to be more focus on Steve's relationship with the Invaders. For me the only good part of Secret Empire (I didn't like it either... though it wasn't so much the story itself that I didn't like but more how they marketed it. Because Steve, our Steve, wasn't actually the Nazi, it was a cosmic cube created - actually a Red Skull influenced cosmic cube created - version of Steve. But they led everyone to believe that was the case because they tried to market it like it was the real Steve, which was not smart - they would have saved themselves so much outrage if they hadn't done that - and then, in a show of very, VERY poor taste, they sent all of that Hail Hydra paraphernalia, like t-shirts, to the shops for the employees to wear. Good lord that was tone-deaf.) was the Brave New World series, because it dealt with how the Invaders where handling everything. I mean, in the actual Secret Empire book Bucky gets all the credit at the end for using Namor's shard of the cosmic cube to get the real Steve out of the Vanishing Point, and poor Namor got zero credit in the main book even though he had been part of the plan to rescue Steve. Not to mention the fact that Namor had been sheltering not only Bucky, in order to make the plan possible to begin with, but also Jim and Toro. At the end of the day, especially since it was Namor's shard of the cosmic cube that played the key factor, here, it was the Invaders who saved Steve. As it should be. But that part was left out of the main book so most people are barely even aware that Namor played a hand in it at all. Sad.

Zdarsky is smart though. He's very smart. By focusing on the relationship between Steve and Namor. And Jim and Namor. And Bucky and Namor. He's getting the reader base to love Namor again. Because, like I said, the number one way to get an audience to empathize with a character, is by showing other characters love that character and have that character love them in return. Newer readers more familiar with Steve, for example, and they maybe picked up the new Invaders book, not being familiar with the Invaders as a whole, but wanting to give it a shot, start to care about Namor because Steve cares about Namor, etc. I follow Zdarsky on twitter and some of the reviews he's been reposting have stated "Zdarsky pulled off the impossible, he made me care about Namor again". And honestly, using the Invaders as a group to bring Namor back into prominence within Marvel (where he should be) was the smartest thing they could have done, because they are a depicting a Namor who is not possessed by the Phoenix and flooding Wakanda, not hellbent on stopping the Incusions to the point he's blowing up planets, and why yes, Namor is planning a war, that's not the focus in this first issue, the focus is a Namor who is loved by the his brothers-in-arms, all of whom want to save him (except poor Toro, wherever he is... I don't read or follow the Inhumans, did Toro die with the rest of them?).

Where Jason Aaron dropped the ball in this is that he barely referenced the previous relationship between Steve and Namor, I mean, he did, but very, very briefly, which leaves Zdarsky to do all of the heavy lifting. And you're right, that was a bit counterproductive.

This is also why all that hero vs. hero storytelling eventually blew up in Marvel's face, sales-wise, once the initial shock value of that type of storytelling wore off. Because by pitting heroes against each other you're making it harder for your audience to empathize with half of your catalog. Look at this board, there is a thread right now still debating Civil War with people still taking sides and bitter about it. It's been over a decade.

I liked the Namor and Steve hug, too. I hope we get to see a modern day one. And, from here on out, it would be great to see the Invaders pop up more in Steve's life. Right now, in Steve's book, he's being framed for a murder he did not commit, it would be great to see Jim and/or Namor come visit Steve or plot to break him out of prison, or whatever. Marvel has neglected their relationship too long. Which is weird. In addition to Brubaker, both Waid and Gruenwald had Jim and/or Namor cameo in the Cap title at different points in time. In fact, there was a time when Namor helped Steve move. And my favorite Namor and Steve exchange of them all was The Table Incident�™ in Avengers vol. 3. Great stuff. We need more of that.

[capandkirby]

Some people asked Chip about bringing in the other members, Toro, Spitfire, etc. but he said he was keeping this war ghost arc very tight and that the others may appear down the line in other arcs. I hope this also implies that he is trying to make Invaders an ongoing rather than a mini or just one year series.

Oh that's great to hear, I hope so, too! He'd have my subscription.

...I'm still curious to know how Toro was effected by all the Inhuman fiasco. Does anyone know this? Did Marvel even say?

[Rosebunse]

I feel like the case is being made that at least some of Namor's actions recently are the result of him suffering a mental breakdown. Given everything that's happened to him-the Phoenix thing, the Incursions, the whole thing Aaron brought up in Avengers, and his lingering PTSD from WW2-it makes sense that Namor would have just snapped.

[ImperiusWrecked]

I feel like the case is being made that at least some of Namor's actions recently are the result of him suffering a mental breakdown. Given everything that's happened to him-the Phoenix thing, the Incursions, the whole thing Aaron brought up in Avengers, and his lingering PTSD from WW2-it makes sense that Namor would have just snapped.

Namor having PTSD and mental health issues has been an ongoing thing in the comics, however most writers do not show it all the time, but some instances like in Marvel Team Up (1997) #8 show him relieving war time flashbacks. Byrne tried to explain things as Namor being Bipolar and that is why he is good and evil all the time but it's not an explanation that makes sense. He also did write Namor getting sent to court and was ruled insane, he had Steve become his Parole Officer at the time but the writing of Namor's mental health hasn't been totally explored.

Edit: Not to mention that Namor was still shown to be effected by the phoenix possession in Jean Grey #3, but no one ever explored how it felt for him to be controlled by the phoenix.

Oh that's great to hear, I hope so, too! He'd have my subscription.

...I'm still curious to know how Toro was effected by all the Inhuman fiasco. Does anyone know this? Did Marvel even say?

Toro was retconned into an Inhuman in the All New Invaders, he pops up from time to time like in squadron supreme and is shown with Black Blot and the royal family but I don't think they have done anything with him other than say he is there now. It's really something I am not happy about because I would rather he have stayed a mutant and is closer to Jim since he and Jim have that Father and son bond.

[ImperiusWrecked]

CapandKirby

I LOVE the table scene from avengers!







I agree that Steve having the Invaders pop up in his books used to be more of a thing and I would love to see that again. I haven't been reading Steve's comic as of yet but it's on my list. Steve is a very popular character and him being in the movies have helped but Namor and Jim are often left behind espically Jim who is very forgotten and it would be better for Marvel to honor their orginal big three by having them interact more with each other.

[capandkirby]

I feel like the case is being made that at least some of Namor's actions recently are the result of him suffering a mental breakdown. Given everything that's happened to him-the Phoenix thing, the Incursions, the whole thing Aaron brought up in Avengers, and his lingering PTSD from WW2-it makes sense that Namor would have just snapped.

Oh definitely. The Marvel Comics Presents story that came out yesterday, placing Namor at ground zero in Nagasaki pretty much cinches that as a certainty. I can't wait to see what happens when Steve and Jim find out about that, and how the Allies manipulated Namor into continuing to fight after they were gone (Steve being already in the ice by then) while diverting him away from the plans to drop the bombs. I'm going to bet they aren't going to take it well.

Chuck Austin (and yes, I realize that saying that name is the equivalent of yelling out Voldemort) wrote a story in Cap vol. 4 about the government intentionally putting Steve in the ice because they knew he wouldn't approve of the use of nuclear weapons. Naturally Marvel has done everything it could to pretend that Austin never wrote for them since, but it does make me wonder if they are going to tie all of that together. To be fair the Ice story wasn't Austin's idea, it was originally pitched by Rieber. But when Rieber was removed from the Cap title they gave it to Austin instead. Frankly, as a Cap fan, I'd like to forget that volume 4 ever happened, myself, but it does beg the question...

*If* Marvel wants to remember that Cap was intentionally put in the ice. And now that we know Namor was left for dead in Nagasaki after adamantly protesting use of the weapons. Wow. Addressing all of that is going to make for some pretty interesting storytelling. Steve is already pretty much at the end of his rope with the American government currently, I don't imagine that Steve finding out what happened to Namor is going to help their case.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Capandkirby

You make a lot of really great points, especially about the 'hero vs hero' thing, while i don't mind and even enjoy the hero vs hero thing, (think hulk vs the sub-mariner etc) it is NOT a model that was meant to last beyond a few issues because no matter how you write it one person is always going to be seen as in the wrong, look at the fiasco with the Black Panther vs Namor thing, it's done nothing for Namor's character but make him black panther's enemy and really those two coming from nations who mistrust outsiders should have more in common.

I want my heroes to suffer, I want them bleed, but in the end I want them to win against the big bad because what is the point of all that suffering and turmoil if it is not to at least find some resolution? The grimdark era has programmed people to think that anything that shows people something with hope is less than the harsh reality. It works for some characters but I dislike it being applied to all of them.

I won't go more into Secret Empire (it makes me very mad lol) because I did see some panels and read summaries about it, (thank you for explaining it more) but yes that whole thing made people think Steve was Hydra and not some evil version of him and it promoted Hydra as being seen as cool which it should never be because hydra is evil and modeled after the nazis was all in very bad taste and I hope it never comes up again.

I am very excited to see where Chip takes the Invaders and espically Namor because he has suffered for so long without a book (his last series was 9 years ago!) and all his development has been trashed by constantly making him be the punching bag for other heroes, and yes I would also like to sign a petetion to have Marvel STOP destroying Atlantis in every book it shows up in. lol

[capandkirby]

CapandKirby

I LOVE the table scene from avengers!

I agree that Steve having the Invaders pop up in his books used to be more of a thing and I would love to see that again. I haven't been reading Steve's comic as of yet but it's on my list. Steve is a very popular character and him being in the movies have helped but Namor and Jim are often left behind espically Jim who is very forgotten and it would be better for Marvel to honor their orginal big three by having them interact more with each other.

Oh man those panels were pure gold. Especially when Steve asks Namor to join the Avengers all earnest after Namor presented the table and Namor thought it was the funniest joke he ever heard. In retrospect, given Namor's current run-ins with the Avengers, it makes those panels (re: Namor's reaction to being asked to join the Avengers) even more hilarious now.

...the new Cap title is great, you should definitely check it out. I'm so relieved to have a good writer handling Steve again I'm halfway tempted to send Coates a fruit basket to express my full gratitude.

And yes, I agree, Jim and Namor have been short-changed. Your post about the Invaders possibly being a long run with multiple arcs gives me hope that this will no longer be the case. Should Marvel want to do a Namor solo and a Jim and Toro solo, in addition to the Invaders run, I'd be down with that.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Oh man those panels were pure gold. Especially when Steve asks Namor to join the Avengers all earnest after Namor presented the table and Namor thought it was the funniest joke he ever heard. In retrospect, given Namor's current run-ins with the Avengers, it makes those panels (re: Namor's reaction to being asked to join the Avengers) even more hilarious now.

...the new Cap title is great, you should definitely check it out. I'm so relieved to have a good writer handling Steve again I'm halfway tempted to send Coates a fruit basket to express my full gratitude.

And yes, I agree, Jim and Namor have been short-changed. Your post about the Invaders possibly being a long run with multiple arcs gives me hope that this will no longer be the case. Should Marvel want to do a Namor solo and a Jim and Toro solo, in addition to the Invaders run, I'd be down with that.

LOL, I love that panel the most, its so rare to see Namor smile or even laugh but he always does it more around the Invaders



I would love to have a Jim and toro solo and one for Namor!!! I totally will check those out, I have been meaning to read more Steve and I am glad to see the series is being handled so well.

[your_name_here]

I hope we get a lot more of Bucky/Namor relationship. Loved it during Brubakers run.

[Samson3191]

Ugh, I love this team and I’m so glad they have a book again. First issue was really great. As everyone else said, the flashback scenes were especially moving. It really drives home the theme of Steve and the crew wanting to save Namor from himself.

Also—thanks to your_name_here for posting those scenes from the Winter Kills one-shot. That’s one of my all time favorite comics. I love the relationship between Namor and Bucky. Namor’s calloused respect and admiration for some punk ass little kid with no powers and treating him like an equal is just the dang best.

Anyway—really good start. Can’t wait to see what’s next.

[Prof. Warren]

This was a good start to the series. D'Zarsky has a solid handle on characterization. Everybody comes off well. Hope this ends up stretching past six issues as I bet D'Zarsky has more than a few stories he could tell with this team.

[tliscord]

Ugh, I love this team and I’m so glad they have a book again. First issue was really great. As everyone else said, the flashback scenes were especially moving. It really drives home the theme of Steve and the crew wanting to save Namor from himself.

Also—thanks to your_name_here for posting those scenes from the Winter Kills one-shot. That’s one of my all time favorite comics. I love the relationship between Namor and Bucky. Namor’s calloused respect and admiration for some punk ass little kid with no powers and treating him like an equal is just the dang best.

Anyway—really good start. Can’t wait to see what’s next.

And then of course there was the arc Man with no Face. Namor was .... well Namor. Buck seems to bring out his winning side

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