Marvel is trying way hard to make Carol Danvers their “Superwoman”... (Spoilers)

[Cmbmool]

On another note, I have a feeling the ret-conjob isn't over.

Just like Mockingbird's rape at the hands of Night Rider was retconned, I wouldn't be surprised if, by the end of this mini or soon after, the Avengers 200 rape will also be done away with.

I don't like Avengers 200 like a lot of people, but I also don't like revisionist history, so I hope that changing it is not on their radar, but I think Marvel Comics and Captain Marvel's writers will feel the need to do so.

Considering the current climate that we live in today...yeah I can see that retcon going so well.

[Ichijinijisanji]

As Ms Marvel (pre-Binary) her strength was the same as his Nega-Band enhanced strength before his photon-boost. Rogue being stronger and more invulnerable than Mar-Vell's Nega-Band derived powers is because Chris Claremont just didn't care about that stuff - Rogue's Handbook entry touches upon this point.

As I understand it:
Mar-Vell's natural Kree strength was in the 1,000 pound range
Mar-Vell's Nega-Band enhanced strength was in the 10 ton range
Mar-Vell's Nega-Band plus photon-power strength was in the 15 ton range
Ms Marvel's (pre-Brinary powers) strength was I believe in the 10 ton range

Theres confusion/inconsistency based on the handbooks. For example Ms marvel's handbook says she could lift 50-75 ton range (depending on handbook) and post binary she was approximately at her original ms marvel levels (which is 75 ton range according to that)

I believe the unknown factor spoken of in rogue's handbook entry might be Carol/rogue's own psionic energy and the unique nature of their kree/human hybrid forms, so despite being duplicated from Mar-vell, they have distinct powers because of their uniqueness. This is headcanon as it isn't explicitly stated, but I think it makese sense? For example: No reason for Ms marvel to have 7th sense without training or negabands like Mar-vell got his if they were exact duplicates.

Hope this makes sense.

[Michael Watkins]

On another note, I have a feeling the ret-conjob isn't over.

Just like Mockingbird's rape at the hands of Night Rider was retconned, I wouldn't be surprised if, by the end of this mini or soon after, the Avengers 200 rape will also be done away with.

I don't like Avengers 200 like a lot of people, but I also don't like revisionist history, so I hope that changing it is not on their radar, but I think Marvel Comics and Captain Marvel's writers will feel the need to do so.

how does the rape story benefit Carol's overall story? and would your opinion change if it had been Captain America who gave birth to Immortus?

[kcekada]

I'm already anticipating the retcon to the retcon. Especially, if the movie falls short of WW-type expectations. There's a good chance that even Aquaman will gross higher.

Captain Marvel certainly had some identity problems. Then again, no one knew who Black Widow as before Iron Man II. But that's why I would have introduced CM in an Avengers film or even GOTG first. Ant Man, at least, had a good concept. Captain Marvel is fairly generic as far as heroes go. And most anyone over 40 still associates Captain Marvel with Shazam.

[kcekada]

Since we're complaining, am I the only one who hated the idea of making her primary color blue and her secondary color red? I preferred the old way of primary red and secondary blue.

I hate the basic blue. Her previous costumes were more red/black and black/red. Blue was usually only used as reflective highlight. I know comics are weird as far as black and dark blue colors -- but those costumes always used more black than blue. The solid blue/red and yellow works for the Superman family -- I would never have used it for Carol.

[Ichijinijisanji]

how does the rape story benefit Carol's overall story? and would your opinion change if it had been Captain America who gave birth to Immortus?

While the situation was a terrible mishandling, in Busiek's avengers her alcoholism felt extremely sympathetic and natural based on all that she'd been through. The avengers felt like they had failed her. It also brings her closer as a friend to Jessica jones because of the latter's association with Kilgrave (and also how the avengers failed Jessica as well). It seemed to have also influenced her personality and issues dealing with control and agency.

In a feminist meta-sense, it also brings awareness to rape culture, where even great heroes like the avengers failed to notice/realize a woman's consent was being violated, so maybe it really is a deep societal problem?

[kcekada]

Ms Marvel's (pre-Brinary powers) strength was I believe in the 10 ton range

50 ton range according to the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe. So Rogue would be in that range as well.

As Binary, it was the 100 ton range. Even She-Hulk wasn't in that range -- until recently, I guess.

[Ichijinijisanji]

50 ton range according to the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe. So Rogue would be in that range as well.

As Binary, it was the 100 ton range. Even She-Hulk wasn't in that range -- until recently, I guess.

Shulkie was in that range during her Jupiter suit phase

[mikeb]

how does the rape story benefit Carol's overall story? and would your opinion change if it had been Captain America who gave birth to Immortus?

It was the catalase for a chain reaction of events that developed Carol's character. Carol's close encounter with Rogue, the meeting of Carol and Jessica Drew, the loss of her powers and memories, the restoration of her memories without the emotional bonds to the past, her time with the X-Men, the Avengers guilt over not protecting her,becoming Binary, volentary space exile.

[Panic]

Theres confusion/inconsistency based on the handbooks. For example Ms marvel's handbook says she could lift 50-75 ton range (depending on handbook) and post binary she was approximately at her original ms marvel levels (which is 75 ton range according to that)

I believe the unknown factor spoken of in rogue's handbook entry might be Carol/rogue's own psionic energy and the unique nature of their kree/human hybrid forms, so despite being duplicated from Mar-vell, they have distinct powers because of their uniqueness. This is headcanon as it isn't explicitly stated, but I think it makese sense? For example: No reason for Ms marvel to have 7th sense without training or negabands like Mar-vell got his if they were exact duplicates.

Hope this makes sense.

Do you have a scan of the Ms Marvel Handbook entry? I'm sure that Carol was portrayed in the 10 ton range until her power-up as Binary. When she went back to her Ms Marvel identity I'm sure they made her stronger as everyone has had a strength boost.

I can tell you as a Mar-Vell fan, none of the writers had a clear idea of how his powers worked or where they came from.

50 ton range according to the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe. So Rogue would be in that range as well.

As I said above, I don't think that's right but I can't find an entry for Carol in her Ms Marvel identity (her Binary entry in my Deluxe Edition doesn't give her Ms Marvel stats), and the Deluxe Edition entry for Rogue specifically states that though Ms Marvel's stats were the duplicate of Mar-Vell, Rogue's are far higher for no obvious reason. In her original run I don't remember Ms Marvel being anywhere near the 50 ton range, and certainly in the Avengers (pre-Binary) she was far weaker than Wonder Man. Again, if you have a scan of Ms Marvel's entry it would be cool if you could post it of link to it, as I've only got her Binary entry (and I've seen her Warbird one, which doesn't go into details).

[JudicatorPrime]

Captain Marvel certainly had some identity problems. Then again, no one knew who Black Widow as before Iron Man II. But that's why I would have introduced CM in an Avengers film or even GOTG first. Ant Man, at least, had a good concept. Captain Marvel is fairly generic as far as heroes go. And most anyone over 40 still associates Captain Marvel with Shazam.

Only the over age of 40 nerds will even remember that Captain Marvel was actually the character's superhero name, since the Saturday morning show was called Shazam! Most follks just assumed that was his name. I had countless arguments with my big brother at the time over bowls of Cap'n Crunch about that. Mom had to separate us a few times before a bloody scrum ensued. Ahh, the good ol' days. Fortunately, we got along just fine watching the Isis show. Ditto with Electra Woman and Dyna-Girl, Bigfoot and Wildboy, Wonderbug, Land of the Lost, the Super Friends and the Space Sentinels shows. Leave it to a Fawcett character to be the source of strife in our household. lol

[JudicatorPrime]

50 ton range according to the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe. So Rogue would be in that range as well.

As Binary, it was the 100 ton range. Even She-Hulk wasn't in that range -- until recently, I guess.

Yes, Carol was the first woman to be in Class 100, if memory serves, although there was always speculation that a short list of others were there as well, even in the absence of feats...like the elder goddess Gaea.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

How is what I said and what you said any different? You've put "deliberate" in inverted commas as if to indicate that I meant something other than the literal meaning, which I did not. What the hell?

Just to be clear, I put the word "deliberate" in quotation marks because I was directly quoting the word you used. I didn't use them to denote irony or sarcasm.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

Only the over age of 40 nerds will even remember that Captain Marvel was actually the character's superhero name, since the Saturday morning show was called Shazam! Most follks just assumed that was his name. I had countless arguments with my big brother at the time over bowls of Cap'n Crunch about that. Mom had to separate us a few times before a bloody scrum ensued. Ahh, the good ol' days. Fortunately, we got along just fine watching the Isis show. Ditto with Electra Woman and Dyna-Girl, Bigfoot and Wildboy, Wonderbug, Land of the Lost, the Super Friends and the Space Sentinels shows. Leave it to a Fawcett character to be the source of strife in our household. lol

I've had the same experience with kids using the Shazam name when I was a kid, but I never understood that. In the show, he's clearly called Captain Marvel at all times and the only time the word is used is for the change. The show even made things potentially less confusing by not using the Wizard Shazam in the show.

Some kids are just dumb.

[mikeb]

Only the over age of 40 nerds will even remember that Captain Marvel was actually the character's superhero name, since the Saturday morning show was called Shazam! Most follks just assumed that was his name. I had countless arguments with my big brother at the time over bowls of Cap'n Crunch about that. Mom had to separate us a few times before a bloody scrum ensued. Ahh, the good ol' days. Fortunately, we got along just fine watching the Isis show. Ditto with Electra Woman and Dyna-Girl, Bigfoot and Wildboy, Wonderbug, Land of the Lost, the Super Friends and the Space Sentinels shows. Leave it to a Fawcett character to be the source of strife in our household. lol

I was about 10 or 11 (I think the live action Capt. Marvel show was on CBS Saturday morning in 1976.) watching Billy Batson and his "Mentor" traveling in a motorhome. I remember alot of Saturday morning stuff from the '70's. H R Puffestuff, Lidsville, Speedbuggy, Sealab 2020, Yogi's Gang, Inch High Private Eye, Hong Kong Phooy. This was the Golden age of Saturday morning cartoons where Hana-Barbara ruled!