Marvel is trying way hard to make Carol Danvers their “Superwoman”... (Spoilers)

[mrbrklyn]

Umm anyone notice Dr Doom in the Terrifics? Spider-Man in Slider.... this tit for tat war between them is really heating up and you would think the legal departments in Warner Bros and Disney would being to intervien and moderate the petty stealing.

[U.N. Owen]

Since we're complaining, am I the only one who hated the idea of making her primary color blue and her secondary color red? I preferred the old way of primary red and secondary blue.

I swear, her mother better be related to Captain Dea-Sea just for a funny joke.

[Thor-Ul]

Umm anyone notice Dr Doom in the Terrifics? Spider-Man in Slider.... this tit for tat war between them is really heating up and you would think the legal departments in Warner Bros and Disney would being to intervien and moderate the petty stealing.

I do remember the Hyperion and Nighthawk series from 2016. Such a coincidence.

They will not stop.

Since we're complaining, am I the only one who hated the idea of making her primary color blue and her secondary color red? I preferred the old way of primary red and secondary blue.

I swear, her mother better be related to Captain Dea-Sea just for a funny joke.

Something more close to Phylla-Vell would had been welcomed.

[VirusChan]

Really?

My main problem with the Life of Captain Marvel is how much of Carol's past history is allowed to be changed in order to present something which to my mind was already true. Carol's powers have always been her own, they may have been derived from Mar-Vell but they were always Carol's and Carol knows this. Mar-Vell never had a seventh sense, when Rogue stole Carol's powers it was Carol's powers she stole, and when Carol became Binary she gained new and more powerful abilities all her own with an effective super-sayan like form to boot. To go to such lengths now, rewriting Carol's entire family history/dynamic and her Kree nature, to present something that is true and has always been true just makes the entire story pretty pointless.

[Jabare]

I'm wondering how many casual fans will call foul at Marvel after the Aquaman movie drops. And we get another half human half superhuman hero/heroine.

Thought just popped into my head. They should be different enough I guess

[ed2962]

I'm wondering how many casual fans will call foul at Marvel after the Aquaman movie drops. And we get another half human half superhuman hero/heroine.

Thought just popped into my head. They should be different enough I guess

I don't think that'll happen. The half-breed trope is so common across multiple genres that I think most people will just roll with it.

[Thor-Ul]

I'm wondering how many casual fans will call foul at Marvel after the Aquaman movie drops. And we get another half human half superhuman hero/heroine.

Thought just popped into my head. They should be different enough I guess

There are three months of difference. People usually forgets quickly.

Back on topic, I just discover than the idea of take off Mar-Vell out of Carol origin and make her powers "her own powers" was already in the creative minds of Marvel since the begginig of her relaunch (her first relaunchas Captain Marvel, 2012), as KSD explain herself as she retconned certain aspects of Carol's origin :

DeConnick: Captain Marvel-powered Helen fell into the time-stream. She's unaccounted for…

Here's a tidbit that might be of interest:

At one point, I was going to change Carol's origin -- pretty significantly. There was a draft where in the cave, in the moments before the explosion, Mar-Vell picked up Helen and Carol scooped up her young self. When the explosion P-M exploded, Mar-Vell's powers were transferred to Helen and Carol Danvers' Captain Marvel powers were transferred to her younger self. I liked the symbolism of it because it made Carol the source of her own power -- no longer an offshoot, no longer the "female equivalent." In the end it was deemed too big a change and, I think, honestly, too weird. But I still have a real soft spot for the idea.

In the end, it all comes back to the beginning: the explosion. In issue #3, Carol explains her origin. She says, "I wished… for more time, that I had done things differently, but mostly, I wished I'd been powerful enough to stop it. That I'd been strong enough to save myself, to save my friend."

In its last gasp - -the machine grants all her wishes:

"More time" -- that's time travel…. and something we'll see in the third arc.
"That I had done things differently" and "that I'd been strong enough to save myself" -- that was going to be rescuing herself and being the source of her own power, but it still works with just the notion that she makes the choice to be who she is, rather than just accepting what is hoisted upon her
"To save my friend" -- that one works on multiple levels -- for Helen, Mar-Vell, and most importantly, being back in time to keep her promise to Tracy. Maybe she doesn't "save" Tracy, exactly, but it's the next best thing.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

I didn't say it was deliberate on DC's part. Back when DC debuted Power Girl I doubt that they considered Marvel's Power Man, but the editor in chief at Marvel took exception and revived Wonder Man in tit-for-tat retaliation. They do some petty ****.

For what it's worth Marvel started development on a Captain Marvel movie in May 2013, and announced it October 2014; DC pitched the Supergirl series to CBS in September 2014. I don't know when the writers for Supergirl decided to change "Linda Danvers" to "Kara Danvers", but I'm sure someone at Marvel would have been annoyed, deliberate or not.

I've never heard of the Power Girl story, and I kind of doubt it's true because Gerry Conway became Editor-in-Chief at Marvel and took over the Wonder Man revival story from Steve Englehart and Conway was also co-creator of Power Girl a year earlier, so he could have quickly disposed of Simon if he were brought back for petty revenge.

Even if it were true, there's a difference between tweaking DC's nose in 1976 by bringing back Wonder Man and stealing the name of DC's most famous character in 2018 when both DC and Marvel are now high profile IP factories for Hollywood.

You say naming Supergirl "Kara Danvers" was not "deliberate" on DC's part. I say that trying to copy Captain Marvel was not even on their radar. There's simply no benefit to doing so. Also, if this move is a payback from Marvel, it can only backfire on them because DC was first to market (as far as the general public is concerned) with the Kara Danvers name, and of course they were first to market with the "Kal-El" name, so people familiar with Superman and the Supergirl show will only assume that Marvel copied DC TWICE: first by using the Carol Danvers name, and then with the Car-Ell name. No one who hears "Car-Ell" will think anything except that it's a ripoff of Superman -- and they would be right. No silly "well, what about Kara-Carol?" excuse is going to elicit anything but eyerolls.

Also, the history of Carol Danvers as Ms. Marvel could be brought up as she was created by Gerry Conway (an admitted big Supergirl fan who as I said also co-created Power Girl) to be Marvel's Supergirl. The Danvers name is probably why he thought of using Carol in the first place -- as a wink to Supergirl. So, even from the moment of her creation, Ms. Marvel was inspired/ripped off from Supergirl. Marvel has no moral standing here to "get back" at DC for anything, quite frankly.

Again, none of this looks good for Marvel and to use the Kryptonian-sounding name is a development that most people seem to outright despise.

Marvel can keep the Kree heritage if they want to (I think it's a terrible development), but they should backpedal on her Kree name and change it to something else so they can put this mess behind them.

Right now, Carol Danvers/Captain Marvel is really tarnished as a character for me.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

On another note, I have a feeling the ret-conjob isn't over.

Just like Mockingbird's rape at the hands of Night Rider was retconned, I wouldn't be surprised if, by the end of this mini or soon after, the Avengers 200 rape will also be done away with.

I don't like Avengers 200 like a lot of people, but I also don't like revisionist history, so I hope that changing it is not on their radar, but I think Marvel Comics and Captain Marvel's writers will feel the need to do so.

[Ichijinijisanji]

It's going to be revealed next month that this whole reality was orchestrated by The Storyteller

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/The_Sto...in)_(Earth-616)

who's a meta representation for the editorial trying to turn Carol into Superman/wonderwoman, but Carol rebukes him for trying to make her into someone she isn't he shouldn't be trying to fit her into a mould of someone she doesn't want to be because she wants to earn that status.

[Ichijinijisanji]

Haha who am I kidding they can't write something clever.

[mikeb]

On another note, I have a feeling the ret-conjob isn't over.

Just like Mockingbird's rape at the hands of Night Rider was retconned, I wouldn't be surprised if, by the end of this mini or soon after, the Avengers 200 rape will also be done away with.

I don't like Avengers 200 like a lot of people, but I also don't like revisionist history, so I hope that changing it is not on their radar, but I think Marvel Comics and Captain Marvel's writers will feel the need to do so.

I doubt this will happen, for the simple reason if the events of Avengers #200 were done away with, everything that happened in the aftermath of 200 would have to be done away with. What happened to Carol on the Golden Gate, the Avengers guilt over not protecting her, restoring Carol's mind, being emotionally detatched from her past, her time with the X-men, even her becoming Binary. The recon would end up becoming a "What if" story.

[Panic]

Mar-Vell never had a seventh sense

No, but he had Cosmic Awareness, and I think Carol's seventh sense was supposed to be analogous that, despite the fact that he gained that power after the psyche-magnitron incident, and therefore Carol shouldn't have had anything similar. I'm guessing Conway just looked at Starlin's Mar-Vell and transferred all the abilities he had at the time to Carol without giving it much thought.

I've never heard of the Power Girl story, and I kind of doubt it's true because Gerry Conway became Editor-in-Chief at Marvel and took over the Wonder Man revival story from Steve Englehart and Conway was also co-creator of Power Girl a year earlier, so he could have quickly disposed of Simon if he were brought back for petty revenge.

It is supposedly true:
https://www.cbr.com/comic-book-urban...-revealed-143/

Even if it were true, there's a difference between tweaking DC's nose in 1976 by bringing back Wonder Man and stealing the name of DC's most famous character in 2018 when both DC and Marvel are now high profile IP factories for Hollywood.

I don't see much difference in it at all. And I doubt "Car-Ell" will be used much, I think it's a playful jab by the writers.

You say naming Supergirl "Kara Danvers" was not "deliberate" on DC's part. I say that trying to copy Captain Marvel was not even on their radar.

How is what I said and what you said any different? You've put "deliberate" in inverted commas as if to indicate that I meant something other than the literal meaning, which I did not. What the hell?

There's simply no benefit to doing so. Also, if this move is a payback from Marvel, it can only backfire on them because DC was first to market (as far as the general public is concerned) with the Kara Danvers name, and of course they were first to market with the "Kal-El" name, so people familiar with Superman and the Supergirl show will only assume that Marvel copied DC TWICE: first by using the Carol Danvers name, and then with the Car-Ell name. No one who hears "Car-Ell" will think anything except that it's a ripoff of Superman -- and they would be right. No silly "well, what about Kara-Carol?" excuse is going to elicit anything but eyerolls.

Also, the history of Carol Danvers as Ms. Marvel could be brought up as she was created by Gerry Conway (an admitted big Supergirl fan who as I said also co-created Power Girl) to be Marvel's Supergirl. The Danvers name is probably why he thought of using Carol in the first place -- as a wink to Supergirl. So, even from the moment of her creation, Ms. Marvel was inspired/ripped off from Supergirl. Marvel has no moral standing here to "get back" at DC for anything, quite frankly.

Again, none of this looks good for Marvel and to use the Kryptonian-sounding name is a development that most people seem to outright despise.

Marvel can keep the Kree heritage if they want to (I think it's a terrible development), but they should backpedal on her Kree name and change it to something else so they can put this mess behind them.

Right now, Carol Danvers/Captain Marvel is really tarnished as a character for me.

Honestly I think most people will simply roll their eyes or chuckle. It's just petty and very silly, but I'm sure the writer thought it was clever and funny.

[Ichijinijisanji]

Carol developed the seventh sense as an analogue of cosmic awareness because of humans' innate psionic potential. When she got her powers, the psyche magnitron drew energy from the negabands to recreate her DNA, but I would assume the negabands awakened her psionic potential a bit. It was a weaker version of cosmic awareness, but then again carol danvers didn't have negabands to help channel them. It also explains why she had some other abilities like flight, costume change and her physical strength is higher than Mar-vell's.

It was part of the reason why the Supreme intelligence wanted to use her as an incubator for a new wave of kree warriors, because she was arguably a more successful version of the experiment he tried with merging Rick Jones and Mar-vell.

Which is why it's strange to me that Marvel thinks carol's powers aren't her own. Did she get DNA from Mar-vell? Yes. But the power she had came from her own psionic potential.

[Panic]

[…] her physical strength is higher than Mar-vell's.

As Ms Marvel (pre-Binary) her strength was the same as his Nega-Band enhanced strength before his photon-boost. Rogue being stronger and more invulnerable than Mar-Vell's Nega-Band derived powers is because Chris Claremont just didn't care about that stuff - Rogue's Handbook entry touches upon this point.

As I understand it:
Mar-Vell's natural Kree strength was in the 1,000 pound range
Mar-Vell's Nega-Band enhanced strength was in the 10 ton range
Mar-Vell's Nega-Band plus photon-power strength was in the 15 ton range
Ms Marvel's (pre-Brinary powers) strength was I believe in the 10 ton range