Marvel is trying way hard to make Carol Danvers their “Superwoman”... (Spoilers)

[reni344]

That's pretty much been my issue ever since Carol became Captain Marvel like it was an advancement. Does that mean being Ms. Marvel somehow wasn't feminist enough? Empowering enough? Because if Kamala has proven anything, it's that there was no problem with the name or the lightning bolt symbol.

I am going to be honest when Marvel announced the Captain Marvel movie I thought they should have used Kamala instead and made a Ms. Marvel movie. I think at this point Kamala is a more successful character then Carol. I want to like Carol but they upset the apple cart to much with her. Marvel wants to make her their Wonder Woman or Supergirl or whatever and it seems like they want to do these quick changes to get her there instead of just making good stories with her over a consistent period of time.

[oasis1313]

I am going to be honest when Marvel announced the Captain Marvel movie I thought they should have used Kamala instead and made a Ms. Marvel movie. I think at this point Kamala is a more successful character then Carol. I want to like Carol but they upset the apple cart to much with her. Marvel wants to make her their Wonder Woman or Supergirl or whatever and it seems like they want to do these quick changes to get her there instead of just making good stories with her over a consistent period of time.

I would agree here. The more powers and other goodies they hand her, the more meh she gets.

[Holt]

That's pretty much been my issue ever since Carol became Captain Marvel like it was an advancement. Does that mean being Ms. Marvel somehow wasn't feminist enough? Empowering enough? Because if Kamala has proven anything, it's that there was no problem with the name or the lightning bolt symbol.

More to the point, as much as they want to distance Carol from the Ms. Marvel identity, it's not like people are gonna magically forget she was Ms. Marvel for what, 40 years? Right now I can walk into any comic book shop or bookstore (or perhaps more relevantly, online places like Comixology or Amazon and find these:




The Captain Marvel identity is here to stay and I 100 percent understand why they found it easier to just have her be Captain Marvel in the movie from the beginning rather than making it a whole legacy mantle thing, but if the goal is to try and make people forget Carol was ever Ms. Marvel because that's somehow not empowering, then that is kind of a losing goal.

It reminds me of a less severely stupid version of when Rick Remender said his goal was to make people forget Eddie Brock was ever Venom and to make Toxin his most popular and iconic identity, and how swimmingly that all worked out.

[Drops Of Venus]

I know with the films they'd never do it but if Carol is no longer a part of Mar-Vell's legacy anymore than go by Warbird and allow Genis or Phyla be Captain Marvel.

How is she not his legacy anymore, though? People are acting like her entire history with Mar-Vell was erased because of this retcon. It wasn't. Mar-Vell was still an important part of her life. She didn't take the Captain Marvel name up until the moment he briefly ressurrected and gave her his blessing. That's how much she respects the man. Unless they specifically make her suddengly dismiss Mar-Vell and go around saying he means nothing to her, I fail to see how she wouldn't still be his legacy. Her entire career as Ms. and now as Captain Marvel is a symbol of Mar-Vell's legacy. The source of her powers doesn't change that.

That being said, it WOULD be nice if Marvel would actually push Mar's children as his legacy too. I just think there is room for everyone, without the need to exclude anyone from said legacy.

[brettc1]

I can't pretend I actually I'm all that broken up about Mar-Vell since, well, it's Mar-Vell, but I do think continuing to downplay and deemphasize Carol's past does more harm than good. For instance, if we're continuing to act like her career is somehow lesser because she used to be the counterpart of another existing hero, what does that say about her popular successor to the Ms. Marvel name?

Surely that doesn't count, since the new Ms Marvel is a female character who is the counterpart of another female character.

[brettc1]

How is she not his legacy anymore, though? People are acting like her entire history with Mar-Vell was erased because of this retcon. It wasn't. Mar-Vell was still an important part of her life. She didn't take the Captain Marvel name up until the moment he briefly ressurrected and gave her his blessing. That's how much she respects the man. Unless they specifically make her suddengly dismiss Mar-Vell and go around saying he means nothing to her, I fail to see how she wouldn't still be his legacy. Her entire career as Ms. and now as Captain Marvel is a symbol of Mar-Vell's legacy. The source of her powers don't change that.

I can see the logic in this.

In as much as this retcon certainly does not disrespect Mar-Vell's legacy anywhere near as much as Carol's actions in Civil War 2.

[Jokerz79]

How is she not his legacy anymore, though? People are acting like her entire history with Mar-Vell was erased because of this retcon. It wasn't. Mar-Vell was still an important part of her life. She didn't take the Captain Marvel name up until the moment he briefly ressurrected and gave her his blessing. That's how much she respects the man. Unless they specifically make her suddengly dismiss Mar-Vell and go around saying he means nothing to her, I fail to see how she wouldn't still be his legacy. Her entire career as Ms. and now as Captain Marvel is a symbol of Mar-Vell's legacy. The source of her powers don't change that.

That being said, it WOULD be nice if Marvel would actually push Mar's children as his legacy too. I just think there is room for everyone, without the need to exclude anyone from said legacy.

I'm a Carol fan but also a Mar-Vell fan and with him no longer tied to the origin of her powers he can now be forgotten to time as just a former friend with no more importance to her mythos than Michael Rossi. I'd rather see someone directly tied to his legacy be Captain Marvel like one of his children if Carol isn't.

[Colossus1980]

Did Marvel retcon Rogue stealing Captain Marvel's powers?

[pageturner]

Did Marvel retcon Rogue stealing Captain Marvel's powers?

I don't think so. They are past it as a bone of contention so it does not come up much lately.

[Digifiend]

That's pretty much been my issue ever since Carol became Captain Marvel like it was an advancement. Does that mean being Ms. Marvel somehow wasn't feminist enough? Empowering enough? Because if Kamala has proven anything, it's that there was no problem with the name or the lightning bolt symbol.

Actually, the usage of Ms. can be seen as anti-feminist nowadays - gender neutral terminology is preferred now, hence why female actors are often just called actors now instead of actresses. Captain is gender neutral, Ms. obviously is not. Kamala gets away with it because she's a kid.

[mikeb]

Did Marvel retcon Rogue stealing Captain Marvel's powers?

No. On the other hand, Rogue lost everything she took from Carol by 2002. The Flying Brick abilities she currently has she got from Simon Williams (Wonderman) in 2014.
In lu of Carol's "new" power origin, I would not be surprised in the reason why what happened between Rogue and Carol got retconned.

[Baseman]

Actually, the usage of Ms. can be seen as anti-feminist nowadays - gender neutral terminology is preferred now, hence why female actors are often just called actors now instead of actresses. Captain is gender neutral, Ms. obviously is not. Kamala gets away with it because she's a kid.

Where? Most news outlets and celebrities gossip rags still refer to female actors as actresses

[ed2962]

That's pretty much been my issue ever since Carol became Captain Marvel like it was an advancement. Does that mean being Ms. Marvel somehow wasn't feminist enough? Empowering enough? Because if Kamala has proven anything, it's that there was no problem with the name or the lightning bolt symbol.

Some fans wanted to see it that way, but it's really just about controlling the trademarks.

[ed2962]

More to the point, as much as they want to distance Carol from the Ms. Marvel identity, it's not like people are gonna magically forget she was Ms. Marvel for what, 40 years? Right now I can walk into any comic book shop or bookstore (or perhaps more relevantly, online places like Comixology or Amazon and find these:




The Captain Marvel identity is here to stay and I 100 percent understand why they found it easier to just have her be Captain Marvel in the movie from the beginning rather than making it a whole legacy mantle thing, but if the goal is to try and make people forget Carol was ever Ms. Marvel because that's somehow not empowering, then that is kind of a losing goal.

It reminds me of a less severely stupid version of when Rick Remender said his goal was to make people forget Eddie Brock was ever Venom and to make Toxin his most popular and iconic identity, and how swimmingly that all worked out.

I don't think Marvel wants people to forget she was Ms Marvel, I think it's like you say, they're just simplifying it for the movie. Also as you point out they're reprinting the Ms Marvel comics to cash in on the movie, so they obviously aren't trying to bury her history.

[ed2962]

Actually, the usage of Ms. can be seen as anti-feminist nowadays - gender neutral terminology is preferred now, hence why female actors are often just called actors now instead of actresses. Captain is gender neutral, Ms. obviously is not. Kamala gets away with it because she's a kid.

I don't know about "Ms" being anti-feminist. I see it used all the time in my real life.