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  1. #76
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowedeyes View Post
    True, but I'm not sure the distinction is really all that major anyway. They sorta recognized the two having similar power origins(mix of kree/human dna) by giving Ultra Girl Carol's original uniform, if only for a short time. Ultimately I don't think Ultra Girl really delved into the idea anyway, while Carol had a few story beats involving the potential of kree and human dna being mixed.
    Well, the Kree had reached an evolutionary dead end, so a hybrid was sort of the Holy Grail at the time, if I recall correctly. Now it's like genetic Oprah: You get to be a hybrid... and you get to be a hybrid... and YOU get to be a hybrid!!!
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  2. #77
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    There is I think three kree hybrids I can think of? That's less than the number of Flashes. Or Robins. Or people who have called them self Spider-Man.

    Also, that blog post is ridiculous. This is the thing that is the final straw? Really?

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by davew128 View Post
    Sorry, this is as absurd as Tony Stark being adopted. Maybe more so. So...at no time along the way even when the Brood experimented on her, did they notice Kree DNA? Seriously?
    Of course the Brood noticed Kree DNA--it is why they were experimenting on her, because she was a unique hybrid of human and Kree. At that point in continuity, it was because the incident with the Psyche-Magnetron turned her into a human/Kree hybrid.

    This retcon just changes it so that she was born that way.

    Honestly, I think people are making a bigger deal out of this than it really deserves. At the end of the day, Carol Danvers is still the same person she was before. Her life experiences haven't changed. Her feminist nature as a woman who became a pilot, and an Air Force Intelligence agent, and the youngest Security Chief in NASA history, etc, is all still intact. Her powers were still triggered by the incident with the Psyche-Magnetron (and her current power set triggered by the Brood's experimentation). None of that has changed. Nothing that she has done since becoming Ms. Marvel, Binary, Warbird and Captain Marvel has changed.

    Sure, the retcon is a bit clunky and isn't truly necessary. I don't deny that. But at the end of the day--its just a tweak on her backstory. Her being part human/part Kree has been her status quo since MS. MARVEL #1 way back when. The only thing that has changed is when she got those genes. The character herself is still the same.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    Of course the Brood noticed Kree DNA--it is why they were experimenting on her, because she was a unique hybrid of human and Kree. At that point in continuity, it was because the incident with the Psyche-Magnetron turned her into a human/Kree hybrid.

    This retcon just changes it so that she was born that way.

    Honestly, I think people are making a bigger deal out of this than it really deserves. At the end of the day, Carol Danvers is still the same person she was before. Her life experiences haven't changed. Her feminist nature as a woman who became a pilot, and an Air Force Intelligence agent, and the youngest Security Chief in NASA history, etc, is all still intact. Her powers were still triggered by the incident with the Psyche-Magnetron (and her current power set triggered by the Brood's experimentation). None of that has changed. Nothing that she has done since becoming Ms. Marvel, Binary, Warbird and Captain Marvel has changed.

    Sure, the retcon is a bit clunky and isn't truly necessary. I don't deny that. But at the end of the day--its just a tweak on her backstory. Her being part human/part Kree has been her status quo since MS. MARVEL #1 way back when. The only thing that has changed is when she got those genes. The character herself is still the same.
    Exactly. I get people being irked because Marvel/DC are constantly ret-con and rebooting character's histories, but the idea that this new origin Marvel saying Carol's old origin was somehow shameful is a stretch.

  5. #80
    Astonishing Member Panic's Avatar
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    If what I'm understanding is true and that they're saying Carol's Ms Marvel powers - flight, 10 ton strength, resistance to injury, warrior skills - were simply natural Kree heritage, that is a huge retcon which makes no sense, especially in relation to Mar-Vell's stories. The Nega-Bands gave him those powers, and Carol received powers analogous to those. This really doesn't jibe with what we have seen of the Kree up to this point. And that's not even taking account of the fact that her original uniform that she manifests is a variation on Mar-Vell's unique captain uniform, and that being able to manifest a uniform itself is not something the Kree can do. Have I misunderstood what has been said, or is it really that sweeping a retcon?

    As a Mar-Vell fan I have to say what irks me is that Carol fans have been camped out in the Monic Rambeau thread for years, saying that Carol is the only one with the right to the Captain Marvel name because of her connection to Mar-Vell; now her backstory is being changed so she doesn't even have to give him any lip-service in her origin. Her super-hero identity owes a lot to Mar-Vell's - her power-set is identical to his because it was derived from his, whilst her backstory has been altered to make her more similar - yet they're really not showing Mar-Vell much respect at all. If you are going to rip him off, at least give props.

  6. #81
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panic View Post
    If what I'm understanding is true and that they're saying Carol's Ms Marvel powers - flight, 10 ton strength, resistance to injury, warrior skills - were simply natural Kree heritage, that is a huge retcon which makes no sense, especially in relation to Mar-Vell's stories. The Nega-Bands gave him those powers, and Carol received powers analogous to those. This really doesn't jibe with what we have seen of the Kree up to this point. And that's not even taking account of the fact that her original uniform that she manifests is a variation on Mar-Vell's unique captain uniform, and that being able to manifest a uniform itself is not something the Kree can do. Have I misunderstood what has been said, or is it really that sweeping a retcon?

    As a Mar-Vell fan I have to say what irks me is that Carol fans have been camped out in the Monic Rambeau thread for years, saying that Carol is the only one with the right to the Captain Marvel name because of her connection to Mar-Vell; now her backstory is being changed so she doesn't even have to give him any lip-service in her origin. Her super-hero identity owes a lot to Mar-Vell's - her power-set is identical to his because it was derived from his, whilst her backstory has been altered to make her more similar - yet they're really not showing Mar-Vell much respect at all. If you are going to rip him off, at least give props.
    Great post. Eve was Adam's rib. Carol was Mar-Vell's. I can see why they'd want to change it, but as mentioned in another post, that whole issue was put to bed years ago when Carol started wearing the black suit. Now it's like they want to write out Mar-Vell completely. Just like the movie writes out Monica completely as having the Captain Marvel moniker long before Carol ever did. I haven't seen this many twists and turns and bends in established facts since the last Trump rally.

    Slight correction: Carol's strength was actually in the 50 ton range. At the time she didn't have any energy projection abilities like Mar-Vell, so they offset that by boosting her physical prowess.
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  7. #82
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    Really?

    Last edited by Lucas 35; 10-19-2018 at 08:07 AM.

  8. #83
    Astonishing Member Panic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Slight correction: Carol's strength was actually in the 50 ton range. At the time she didn't have any energy projection abilities like Mar-Vell, so they offset that by boosting her physical prowess.
    I haven't read enough of Carol's original Ms Marvel run to speak with any authority, but I do remember Rogue's Marvel Handbook entry stating that Rogue possessed Ms Marvel's powers, but "Some other unknown factor must be at work here, since Ms Marvel's strength and resistance to injury allegedly duplicated those of the Kree Captain Mar-Vell, yet Rogue is far stronger and resistant to physical injury than Mar-Vell ever was. "

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panic View Post
    If what I'm understanding is true and that they're saying Carol's Ms Marvel powers - flight, 10 ton strength, resistance to injury, warrior skills - were simply natural Kree heritage, that is a huge retcon which makes no sense, especially in relation to Mar-Vell's stories. The Nega-Bands gave him those powers, and Carol received powers analogous to those. This really doesn't jibe with what we have seen of the Kree up to this point. And that's not even taking account of the fact that her original uniform that she manifests is a variation on Mar-Vell's unique captain uniform, and that being able to manifest a uniform itself is not something the Kree can do. Have I misunderstood what has been said, or is it really that sweeping a retcon?

    As a Mar-Vell fan I have to say what irks me is that Carol fans have been camped out in the Monic Rambeau thread for years, saying that Carol is the only one with the right to the Captain Marvel name because of her connection to Mar-Vell; now her backstory is being changed so she doesn't even have to give him any lip-service in her origin. Her super-hero identity owes a lot to Mar-Vell's - her power-set is identical to his because it was derived from his, whilst her backstory has been altered to make her more similar - yet they're really not showing Mar-Vell much respect at all. If you are going to rip him off, at least give props.
    For a good while, marvel seemed to be trying to build a greater sense of legacy with its mythos, the generations books as an example, this distances her and mar vell much more imo

    in many ways this makes her an inherently less interesting character fir me, she's now just another sort of alien ish, as opposed to her origin which I felt was more original and showed someone who dealt with becoming something else

    I'm curious why the kree are not generally more powerful if these are her innate powers but that might have been shown

    For me, this is ultimately a less interesting and involved origin idea, it's simpler which I guess is the reason but it distances her from mar vell and therefore her connection to the captain marvel legacy is imo weakened

    I can't see any reason for doing this other than movie synergy which seems to have crept in more and more

    I wonder if it's had any impact on book sales generally for marvel?

  10. #85
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    I know with the films they'd never do it but if Carol is no longer a part of Mar-Vell's legacy anymore than go by Warbird and allow Genis or Phyla be Captain Marvel.

  11. #86
    Bishop was right. Sighphi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panic View Post
    If what I'm understanding is true and that they're saying Carol's Ms Marvel powers - flight, 10 ton strength, resistance to injury, warrior skills - were simply natural Kree heritage, that is a huge retcon which makes no sense, especially in relation to Mar-Vell's stories. The Nega-Bands gave him those powers, and Carol received powers analogous to those. This really doesn't jibe with what we have seen of the Kree up to this point. And that's not even taking account of the fact that her original uniform that she manifests is a variation on Mar-Vell's unique captain uniform, and that being able to manifest a uniform itself is not something the Kree can do. Have I misunderstood what has been said, or is it really that sweeping a retcon?
    The best part is that these powers manifest in adolescence while in battle. So they are like mutants.
    This is a total retcon of the Kree as a whole just to change the origin of one character.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    Talk about trying to hard to make someone become something else... according to these Bleeding Cool articles about “The life of Captain Marvel” spoilers:
    and how close Marvel is truly trying to make her their Superwoman.
    end of spoilers

    I almost feel sick just by it.

    As fans of the character: What is your take on this ?

    https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/10...her-real-name/

    https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/10...mean-not-hope/
    Car-Ell? Jeez, why not just call her Kara Zor-el and be done with it.

    To me this is just dumb as toast.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas 35 View Post
    Really?

    So - Spider-Man's powers aren't his because he wasn't born with them and got them by accident?

    And if I recall correctly, didn't Carol's powers get amped up by the Brood to turn her into Binary? Were they the Brood's powers? I don't remember anyone ever thinking so.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  14. #89
    Ultimate Member Holt's Avatar
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    I can't pretend I actually I'm all that broken up about Mar-Vell since, well, it's Mar-Vell, but I do think continuing to downplay and deemphasize Carol's past does more harm than good. For instance, if we're continuing to act like her career is somehow lesser because she used to be the counterpart of another existing hero, what does that say about her popular successor to the Ms. Marvel name?

  15. #90
    Astonishing Member Beetle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    I can't pretend I actually I'm all that broken up about Mar-Vell since, well, it's Mar-Vell, but I do think continuing to downplay and deemphasize Carol's past does more harm than good. For instance, if we're continuing to act like her career is somehow lesser because she used to be the counterpart of another existing hero, what does that say about her popular successor to the Ms. Marvel name?
    That's pretty much been my issue ever since Carol became Captain Marvel like it was an advancement. Does that mean being Ms. Marvel somehow wasn't feminist enough? Empowering enough? Because if Kamala has proven anything, it's that there was no problem with the name or the lightning bolt symbol.

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