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  1. #91
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    I do think their personalities are compatible, but Scott & Lorna would really be doing Alex dirty if they hooked up. Even if he and Lorna are done permanently, I think it's incredibly weird (and insensitive) to date a close friends ex, let alone your siblings ex. I don't think it's healthy. So I'd rule out Emma/Alex and Alex/Jean too.

    If it were up to me, Polaris and Sunspot would be a couple.

  2. #92
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    I don't doubt for a moment that Alex and Lorna are not done permanently, eventually Scott and Jean will be back together as well no matter how much I hate the pairing, it just takes time and a writer that wants the pair together and it'd happen, besides which right now there really isn't any big hurdle that they'd have to clear...Alex and Lorna I mean...

  3. #93

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    Unless Marvel stops screwing around and actually uses Lorna, rectifying decades of neglect, pairing her off with anyone at this juncture is a mistake. Marvel needs to realize she's an actual character worth exploring in her own right. That's an essential ingredient for any relationship she might end up in not sucking.

    After 2 years in limbo, and the past year of not really being used (Blue mainly used her as Havok's ex and Magneto's daughter, not as herself), she first needs several issues where she has a meaningful role and isn't in a relationship. A foundational understanding of her character needs to be laid before an SO comes into play. From there, I'd say the writer would have to be very careful not to repeat the same mistakes as how her dynamic with Havok became so toxic. And as I've said already, it shouldn't be Havok. A loooot of time needs to be spent on using Lorna without him anywhere near her before another go at a relationship between them might be in any way a good idea.
    I can also be reached on BlueSky and Tumblr. Avatar by kahlart.

    Ghosts of Genosha minicomic focused on Polaris, written by me and drawn by Fin_NoMore.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

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  4. #94
    Mighty Member TheSupernaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    Unless Marvel stops screwing around and actually uses Lorna, rectifying decades of neglect, pairing her off with anyone at this juncture is a mistake. Marvel needs to realize she's an actual character worth exploring in her own right. That's an essential ingredient for any relationship she might end up in not sucking.

    After 2 years in limbo, and the past year of not really being used (Blue mainly used her as Havok's ex and Magneto's daughter, not as herself), she first needs several issues where she has a meaningful role and isn't in a relationship. A foundational understanding of her character needs to be laid before an SO comes into play. From there, I'd say the writer would have to be very careful not to repeat the same mistakes as how her dynamic with Havok became so toxic. And as I've said already, it shouldn't be Havok. A loooot of time needs to be spent on using Lorna without him anywhere near her before another go at a relationship between them might be in any way a good idea.
    I'm not really a huge expert on Lorna or Alex, so how is there relationship toxic? I'm not saying I disagree but I'd like some understanding.

  5. #95
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSupernaut View Post
    I'm not really a huge expert on Lorna or Alex, so how is there relationship toxic? I'm not saying I disagree but I'd like some understanding.
    The only bad spot I know about them is that under Chuck Austen he had Alex break up with Lorna on their wedding day because he was in love with the school nurse (which was the son's doing or some nonsense).

  6. #96
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    Some Lorna fans view Lorna's past as her being treated as nothing more than Alex's girlfriend and that her whole existence revolves around him...though last I checked there's no evidence that Alex really did any of that himself but it's how some fans view the pairing, I don't agree but...I see her relationship with Magneto as being equally as toxic as they view her relationship with Alex...as many Lorna fans here seem to want her to basically be nearly identical to Magneto in worldview and mission in life, that and nothing else is allowed...

    It didn't help that Austen patterned the nurse after his own wife in real life and such...and had the nurse's kid use his powers to have Alex and Annie date in their dreams and give a bit of a push to their feelings to make them fall for each other...all of this before the kid even hit puberty...he somehow knew how to do all of that...

  7. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSupernaut View Post
    I'm not really a huge expert on Lorna or Alex, so how is there relationship toxic? I'm not saying I disagree but I'd like some understanding.
    I wrote a long Tumblr post about it last year, including examples from comics.

    Marvel has a very long history of treating Lorna like she exists to be Havok's girlfriend. Every time they're written as a couple, Marvel rips away core facets of Lorna's identity to make her fit that mold.

    First time they were a couple, Lorna lost her feminist nature, Jean as her best friend, Iceman as a close friend and potential love interest (Sina Grace only used her as a throwaway cell phone message), and her status as second woman to join the X-Men meaning anything. All of that got stripped from her to make her Havok's clingy girlfriend who gets repeatedly victimized for the benefit of everyone that isn't her. It got so bad that by the late 90s, when Havok appeared to die, writers wrote her locking herself away in an apartment crying and obsessing over his uniform.

    Then she got brought on to Genosha. Without Havok, Magneto was restored as her father, she got Wanda and Pietro as siblings, she had actual character development with Genosha (genocide, people revering her, how she handles the trauma, etc), she played a meaningful role in House of M. After nearly 30 years stuck mainly as Havok's girlfriend, the first time she got to be not that, she made progress.

    Then she got forced with Havok again, to go into space. In that time, she lost her Genosha history (Marvel acts like she has no stake in it at all), she lost getting to be part of major X-Men and Marvel events, she lost the darker edge to her personality. The second she's with him, she loses huge chunks of development yet again.

    Then Havok broke up with her. And already, in the very story that launched the breakup, Lorna finally got her origin story told after 43 years without one (decades after Havok got his). She then got to lead her own team on All-New X-Factor. Spend time with Wanda and Pietro again. And Luna. Had a bit of flirt with Gambit, too, that could've gone places if it lasted longer.

    And now we get to the present. After two years of Lorna in forced limbo, they brought her back mainly to be a supporting character for Havok's story on Blue, with a bit of Magneto handled the same way. X-Men Blue #9, presented as the big return for Lorna, ends up being all about how she can "save" Havok as his Manic Pixie Dream Ex-Girlfriend, with a bit of "watch out for Magneto's Daughter (TM)" thrown in. Lorna's supposed to be a mentor to the Blue team, but that makes up only one page out of 30 something issues. Malice is brought back, but because the 5-issue story arc is mainly about Havok, it's in and out with no depth whatsoever.

    That's how Havok is toxic for Lorna. Every time he's used anywhere near her, a part of her character and her potential dies just so he can have a hot green-haired (ex)girlfriend to boost his profile and feed his stories.

    Every time she's free of him, she gets to actually be someone for a change. She gets to have friends, take part in events, figure out who she is and what she believes. Things that should've happened decades ago get to finally happen.

    I don't think it's absolutely impossible for Lorna to ever have a relationship with Havok that isn't toxic. However, such a thing is going to take at least 10 years of the two kept apart with Lorna actually used as her own character. Marvel needs to recognize internally that Lorna is a good character worthy of use and respect in her own right. Only then will any relationship between them have a shot at not sucking.
    I can also be reached on BlueSky and Tumblr. Avatar by kahlart.

    Ghosts of Genosha minicomic focused on Polaris, written by me and drawn by Fin_NoMore.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  8. #98
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    I don't think that there's much of a chance of Alex and Lorna not crossing paths a few times in ten years unless one or both are dead, and I don't view his time on Blue as Marvel boosting his profile...isn't it around his 40th anniversary as well and I don't remember Alex getting any notice for it either...

  9. #99
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    I wrote a long Tumblr post about it last year, including examples from comics.

    Marvel has a very long history of treating Lorna like she exists to be Havok's girlfriend. Every time they're written as a couple, Marvel rips away core facets of Lorna's identity to make her fit that mold.

    First time they were a couple, Lorna lost her feminist nature, Jean as her best friend, Iceman as a close friend and potential love interest (Sina Grace only used her as a throwaway cell phone message), and her status as second woman to join the X-Men meaning anything. All of that got stripped from her to make her Havok's clingy girlfriend who gets repeatedly victimized for the benefit of everyone that isn't her. It got so bad that by the late 90s, when Havok appeared to die, writers wrote her locking herself away in an apartment crying and obsessing over his uniform.

    Then she got brought on to Genosha. Without Havok, Magneto was restored as her father, she got Wanda and Pietro as siblings, she had actual character development with Genosha (genocide, people revering her, how she handles the trauma, etc), she played a meaningful role in House of M. After nearly 30 years stuck mainly as Havok's girlfriend, the first time she got to be not that, she made progress.

    Then she got forced with Havok again, to go into space. In that time, she lost her Genosha history (Marvel acts like she has no stake in it at all), she lost getting to be part of major X-Men and Marvel events, she lost the darker edge to her personality. The second she's with him, she loses huge chunks of development yet again.

    Then Havok broke up with her. And already, in the very story that launched the breakup, Lorna finally got her origin story told after 43 years without one (decades after Havok got his). She then got to lead her own team on All-New X-Factor. Spend time with Wanda and Pietro again. And Luna. Had a bit of flirt with Gambit, too, that could've gone places if it lasted longer.

    And now we get to the present. After two years of Lorna in forced limbo, they brought her back mainly to be a supporting character for Havok's story on Blue, with a bit of Magneto handled the same way. X-Men Blue #9, presented as the big return for Lorna, ends up being all about how she can "save" Havok as his Manic Pixie Dream Ex-Girlfriend, with a bit of "watch out for Magneto's Daughter (TM)" thrown in. Lorna's supposed to be a mentor to the Blue team, but that makes up only one page out of 30 something issues. Malice is brought back, but because the 5-issue story arc is mainly about Havok, it's in and out with no depth whatsoever.

    That's how Havok is toxic for Lorna. Every time he's used anywhere near her, a part of her character and her potential dies just so he can have a hot green-haired (ex)girlfriend to boost his profile and feed his stories.

    Every time she's free of him, she gets to actually be someone for a change. She gets to have friends, take part in events, figure out who she is and what she believes. Things that should've happened decades ago get to finally happen.

    I don't think it's absolutely impossible for Lorna to ever have a relationship with Havok that isn't toxic. However, such a thing is going to take at least 10 years of the two kept apart with Lorna actually used as her own character. Marvel needs to recognize internally that Lorna is a good character worthy of use and respect in her own right. Only then will any relationship between them have a shot at not sucking.
    You forgot him trying to kill her when he joined the Brotherhood and this was without being brainwashed or possessed

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    You forgot him trying to kill her when he joined the Brotherhood and this was without being brainwashed or possessed
    I'm pretty sure he's inverted

  11. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by wano View Post
    I'm pretty sure he's inverted
    He is talking about a mid 90s story where Havok went dark, teamed up with Fatale with alot of hints they were intimate and it devolved into an love triangle and then went nearly homicidal. Its the sort of thing that has a habit of happening as creative teams attempt major effort to spice up the soap.

    Last edited by jmc247; 10-22-2018 at 06:42 PM.

  12. #102
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    Wasn't he undercover though during all of that, and I remember when Dani nearly killed her former teammates because she was undercover for Shield and nobody seemed to have a problem with that...

  13. #103
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wano View Post
    I'm pretty sure he's inverted
    He wasnt inverted in the 90s

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    Wasn't he undercover though during all of that, and I remember when Dani nearly killed her former teammates because she was undercover for Shield and nobody seemed to have a problem with that...
    She didnt know that as he lied to her. He was a double agent and to convince the Brotherhood of his loyalty, he was willing to kill Lorna instead of risking being exposed. Thank god Random was infatuated with her and stopped Havok before he could fatally wound her

    Dani has nothing to do with this thread but you are deflecting as usual. Surprised you didnt go with your goto Magneto this time
    Last edited by Havok83; 10-22-2018 at 06:55 PM.

  14. #104

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    Lorna: "You just have never figured out that your actions have consequences."
    Marvel: "lol no they don't, time to make her into his supporting character girlfriend yet again"

    Thanks for the reminders on all this.
    I can also be reached on BlueSky and Tumblr. Avatar by kahlart.

    Ghosts of Genosha minicomic focused on Polaris, written by me and drawn by Fin_NoMore.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  15. #105
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    Lorna: "You just have never figured out that your actions have consequences."
    Marvel: "lol no they don't, time to make her into his supporting character girlfriend yet again"

    Thanks for the reminders on all this.
    Notice she cant go through with the fight but he has no problem proceeding to go in on her


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