Have writers become lost on what Ben Reilly should be?

[boots]

I'd also add that they could make him a vagabond/drifter again and have him roam the country never staying in one place for too long as he attempts to figure out his place in the world. I belive there was even a short story that explored some time when he was in Europe so maybe explore that some more.


To me there's a couple different avenues they could've used to differentiate him and they just went with the least interesting one imho.

yeah that feels like the classic ben. i'm just not sure if that book would survive now.

maybe as limited series?

[classicgmer]

yeah that feels like the classic ben. i'm just not sure if that book would survive now.

maybe as limited series?

Well what is your definition of surviving in the current climate for comicbooks? Personally i'm pretty sure you'd get at least 12 issues out of it and possibly between 20-25 issues if afforded the same type of shipping schedule the recently cloncluded volume was. Expecting any book let alone one featuring Ben to exceed 25 issues would be pretty lofty expectations to me.


I also wouldn't be opposed to a limited series as I feel one of Marvel's most recent mistakes was dishing out ongoings to almost every character in their catalouge. Not every character is suited for the ongoing formatt and Marvel has now seemingly acknowledged that and has gone back to limited series which to me is better with the lesser known characters.

[boots]

fair call, i’m probably out of date with marvel’s biz model and “survive” is different to “thrive”

[Scarlet Spider-Man]

I think it's more that Marvel doesn't like/doesn't care about Ben.

Plus, for some godforsaken reason the current regime seems to think that pissing off fans = good writing.

[leokearon]

I think it's more that Marvel doesn't like/doesn't care about Ben.

Plus, for some godforsaken reason the current regime seems to think that pissing off fans = good writing.

They clearly don't like him, since they killed a lot of Ben's in Spiderverse and completely derailed current one.

[jetengine]

Ben has no real place in modern Spiderman lore so ends up being redundant. Miles does everything he could do and is more relevant.

[Scarlet Spider-Man]

Ben has no real place in modern Spiderman lore so ends up being redundant. Miles does everything he could do and is more relevant.

How is Miles more relevant?

[Pav]

I think it's more that Marvel doesn't like/doesn't care about Ben.

Plus, for some godforsaken reason the current regime seems to think that pissing off fans = good writing.

They clearly don't like him, since they killed a lot of Ben's in Spiderverse and completely derailed current one.

You need to step out of your own perceptions and attempt to consider the perceptions of the writers and editors.

If Ben was disliked, he wouldn't be used at all -- and while "shock and awe" is definitely a thing, I don't think PAD's plan was to "piss off" fans. You just didn't like his attempt.

So, maybe stop projecting.

-Pav, who thought we'd covered this already...

[Orbus]

The problem is, that tie-in was the most the reader ever got about Ben's past. I'm not saying he had to have his full supporting cast come back in order to be successful, but there were practically NO references to his past life (as Spider-man, Lost Years, Redemption) at ALL! In fact, there were practically NO references to his time after Warren re-cloned him, and then Ben revealing himself to Peter.

If a reader is going to be invested in a character, they have to be given little tidbits about who the character is (get inside his head), discuss what his backstory is, and how that has made him the person he is today. The current Scarlet Spider series had none of that. It literally could've been any other generic character under the mask besides Ben. His character was never truly fleshed out....he didn't have a real friend, he had no love interest, and there was nothing positive about him to make new readers really love the guy.

At least during the "Lost Years" he had Seward Trainer and Janine Godbe (Elizabeth Tyne).

This is a pretty decent run down of Ben's story. References The Lost Years, his time as Scarlet Spider, becoming Spider-Man, working at the Daily Grind and dating Desiree and his sacrifice to save Peter.

Clone Conspiracy.jpg

I'd say that's a fairly good run down of Ben's history in an event whose most readers will probably have never read the original 90s clone sage. You don't really want to overload them with information especially in when they had to juggle multiple storylines including Ben's master plan with New U, the Carrion Virus decimating many worlds in the multiverse, Peter reuniting with loved ones that were dead including Gwen Stacy and more.

You mention bringing back Ben's supporting cast but how could that be done? It's not like he can get his job back at the daily Grind and hang out with his old friends, even accounting for Marvel's sliding timescale they all think he's been dead for a long time. In terms giving Ben an ongoing series that is true to the character that's a big obstacle that most of his supporting cast and unique allies and enemies of has been left behind back in the 90s. A skilled writer could weave some of it back in but again I wonder is anyone up to sifting through two years worth of stories from decades ago that has (unfairly) been labelled the worst period of Spider-Man.

[boots]

You need to step out of your own perceptions and attempt to consider the perceptions of the writers and editors.

If Ben was disliked, he wouldn't be used at all -- and while "shock and awe" is definitely a thing, I don't think PAD's plan was to "piss off" fans. You just didn't like his attempt.

So, maybe stop projecting.

-Pav, who thought we'd covered this already...

yeah, i heard ford recently designed and released a car they absolutely hate and hope will fail. but fck it, $600 million is worth spending just to screw with customers.

similarly, the next iphone release will be the iphone BS (bullshit) model. again, apple really hate this phone and are determined for it to fail. they eagerly anticipate it sinking like a stone on release and figure a few million is a small price to pay for a good lol.

[boots]

This is a pretty decent run down of Ben's story. References The Lost Years, his time as Scarlet Spider, becoming Spider-Man, working at the Daily Grind and dating Desiree and his sacrifice to save Peter.

Clone Conspiracy.jpg

I'd say that's a fairly good run down of Ben's history in an event whose most readers will probably have never read the original 90s clone sage. You don't really want to overload them with information especially in when they had to juggle multiple storylines including Ben's master plan with New U, the Carrion Virus decimating many worlds in the multiverse, Peter reuniting with loved ones that were dead including Gwen Stacy and more.

You mention bringing back Ben's supporting cast but how could that be done? It's not like he can get his job back at the daily Grind and hang out with his old friends, even accounting for Marvel's sliding timescale they all think he's been dead for a long time. In terms giving Ben an ongoing series that is true to the character that's a big obstacle that most of his supporting cast and unique allies and enemies of has been left behind back in the 90s. A skilled writer could weave some of it back in but again I wonder is anyone up to sifting through two years worth of stories from decades ago that has (unfairly) been labelled the worst period of Spider-Man.

it does a great job of summarising in less than a page.

but i don't know if less than a page was enough to hook in new readers?

[Mister Mets]

How is Miles more relevant?

He's starring in a movie, and has been in several TV shows.

[Mister Mets]

i'm almost thinking of going meta with that approach. literally, the problem you describe...make that ben's actual problem. he does not fit. he's a rogue cell, a loose cog, an extra part, a viral infection of the MU

still works with what made him so fascinating the in the first place- a search for identity and what makes someone human. take that and run with it.

give him some sort of existential enemy; that wants to extinguish ben for no other reason than he exists when he shouldn't.

all the other takes a variations on the street level crime fighter peter parker type. make it a grant morison-esque slightly avant garde take on a spidey type character.

well... i'd buy it lol.

That could work. I'm imagining a Nextwave/ Morrison Doom Patrol style vibe with him as a hero who has to handle weirder adventures.

[boots]

That could work. I'm imagining a Nextwave/ Morrison Doom Patrol style vibe with him as a hero who has to handle weirder adventures.

yeah, that's the vibe. not too different to the repositioning of nate grey as the shaman of the mutant tribe a while back

one problem with these sorts of concepts is that few writers can pull it off.

[TheNewFiftyForum]

I agree with that, and it's not just comic books, it's all over the culture. People no longer believe in good ultimately triumphing over evil, hope over despair, kindness and compassion over cruelty and meanness . . . because the real world we live in has made those things seem like an impossibility. As a result, our fiction no longer seems interested in giving us heroes we can root for --- as opposed to "relate to," which is not quite the same thing --- because deep down, we don't believe heroes actually exist anymore. It's all just people with agendas, hidden or not, striving against each other to achieve their own ends regardless of right or wrong, and while that might be truer to life as we know it, we shouldn't necessarily resign ourselves to it.

When exactly was the time of these heroes one could root for? I mean, looking at the mythological heroes that many like to see as the archetype for the modern superhero, they weren't exactly perfect or flawless. And as for the real world having made people cynical; I do agree that a lot of things are bad today, but it's not like we're in some kind of freefall from a golden age either. History is littered with racism, misogyny, war, plague, despair, even genocide, and you don't have to go back far to find it.