Who Should Be More Powerful: Shazam or Superman?

[Gamma Burst]

The gods have a upper limit to give powerwise to billy,superman can keep soaking up energy,and can theoretically dwarf Billy or anyone else if he needed too.

Superman isn't the mightiest mortal nor is he the fastest man alive,he isn't human,so he isnt on the same scale.

Well. I never saw that way, but you could definitely right. It seems Superman doesn't have limits.

[married guy]

I have always held the opinion that Captain Marvel, sorry - Shazam is superior.
He not only has the strength, speed and flight of Superman, he's got magic in his corner as well.

[JackDaw]

I have always held the opinion that Captain Marvel, sorry - Shazam is superior.
He not only has the strength, speed and flight of Superman, he's got magic in his corner as well.

I know DC has always tended to write it that way (that Superman is more vulnerable to magic) but I’ve never felt that it’s a particularly logical stance.

For two reasons.

First, characters like Captain Marvel aren’t magicians...they are powered by magic, rather than exceptional manipulators of it. A magician coming up against ought to understand the way their powers work far more intimately than they understand how Superman’s powers work...the magician should have far less relevant experience in how to combat Superman’s power source.

Secondly a lot of magic is dependent on the target believing in magic to some extent. Captain Marvel has to believe in magic, it is the core of his powers...and is therefore more vulnerable because of that belief. On other hand...deep down, I doubt Superman has any real belief in magic.

[Robanker]

Honestly, I think it should be Shazam, but the reason he may not be able to best Superman is because his childlike nature or mind holds him back from being on Superman’s level. I mean he has all powers that make him equal to Superman including a few added benefits from the gods as well as magic which Superman is weak to. So again I say Shazam.

This is a really common misconception, but Superman isn't weak to magic per se. He's just no more invulnerable to it than anyone else. He's no more susceptible to it than Batman, The Flash or the like.

[Knightmare]

This is a really common misconception, but Superman isn't weak to magic per se. He's just no more invulnerable to it than anyone else. He's no more susceptible to it than Batman, The Flash or the like.

Yeah sorry... That's almost the textbook definition of a weakness.

If Superman is invulnerable to everything except Kyrptonite and Magic, then those two things are his weaknesses. The fact that his Magic resistance is not better of worse than a normal human is beside the point. If Lex Luthor can exploit Superman's weakness to kryptonite, then Shazam can exploit his weakness to Magic.

That being said weakness is probably the wrong word to use. I think resistance would be a more suitable, i.e. A Kryptonian from Krypton has the same Magic resistance as a Human from Earth. That is to say none at all!

[Kon93]

Didn't superman tank some magic during lobdells run,I think out in space?

[Agent Z]

I know DC has always tended to write it that way (that Superman is more vulnerable to magic) but I’ve never felt that it’s a particularly logical stance.

For two reasons.

First, characters like Captain Marvel aren’t magicians...they are powered by magic, rather than exceptional manipulators of it. A magician coming up against ought to understand the way their powers work far more intimately than they understand how Superman’s powers work...the magician should have far less relevant experience in how to combat Superman’s power source.

One of Billy's powers is the Magic of Zeus. So he does control magic. A type of magic anyway.

Secondly a lot of magic is dependent on the target believing in magic to some extent.

This has never been a rule in the DCU. Not once has it been stated that a person needs to believe in magic to be affected by it.

[Jim Kelly]

This is one of those questions in comics that you never want to be definitively answered. You may think you do, but trust me, you don't. It's like where did the Phantom Stranger come from, what's the origin of the Joker, who is faster, Superman or Flash? We should never know for sure any of these things, because it takes away all the fun.

[SiegePerilous02]

One of Billy's powers is the Magic of Zeus. So he does control magic. A type of magic anyway.

He's not known for casting complex and varied spells is he? Billy isn't like Dr. Fate, Zatanna or Circe. The magical lightning can hurt Superman provided it manages to hit him, but it's not a guaranteed win.

[Agent Z]

He's not known for casting complex and varied spells is he? Billy isn't like Dr. Fate, Zatanna or Circe. The magical lightning can hurt Superman provided it manages to hit him, but it's not a guaranteed win.

That is true. He's basically magician with access to a limited number of spells that are really powerful.

[The Darknight Detective]

Exactly as strong as each other. Neither one is greater or weaker.

But they are on separate Earths, so each one gets to keep their title as Earth's Mightiest Hero and have it be 100% true. Putting them on the same Earth has never worked, they are both too big.

Correctamundo.

[daBronzeBomma]

He also lacks the weakness: Magic is his power source and kryptonite is just a (admittedly, radioactive) rock.

Shazam most certainly has a weakness, and it's a VERY exploitable one at that: his own magic lightning can and has been used to forcibly turn him back into helpless mortal kid Billy Batson. By Superman. On at least two prominent occasions.

KINGDOM COME graphic novel.

JUSTICE LEAGUE UNLIMITED episode "Clash":



Ironic, because the Timmverse Superman is typically nerfed in favor of Bats and others, but this was one of the few times they let Clark cut loose.

So yeah, the "no weaknesses for Shazam" is a big ol' fallacy.

Supes FTW.

[SilverWarriorWolf]

Shazam most certainly has a weakness, and it's a VERY exploitable one at that: his own magic lightning can and has been used to forcibly turn him back into helpless mortal kid Billy Batson. By Superman. On at least two prominent occasions.

KINGDOM COME graphic novel.

JUSTICE LEAGUE UNLIMITED episode "Clash":



Ironic, because the Timmverse Superman is typically nerfed in favor of Bats and others, but this was one of the few times they let Clark cut loose.

So yeah, the "no weaknesses for Shazam" is a big ol' fallacy.

Supes FTW.

I didn’t say he lacks weaknesses, I said he lacks SUPERMAN’s weaknesses. Kryptonite is nothing to him, sunlight doesn’t make a difference, and magic is his source of power. He has fewer weakness, not zero weaknesses.

I agree the bolt can be a problem, but it’s one only Superman and Black Adam can use on him. Not to mention, that scene also showed the bolt can also be dangerous to Superman.

But, as I said before, I see them as equal, in that Clark is stronger but Billy has fewer vulnerabilities, and I wish episodes like Clash stopped happening. I like it better when they’re allies.

[daBronzeBomma]

I didn’t say he lacks weaknesses, I said he lacks SUPERMAN’s weaknesses. Kryptonite is nothing to him, sunlight doesn’t make a difference, and magic is his source of power. He has fewer weakness, not zero weaknesses.

Well, let's see: Shazam has no access to kryptonite nor to a red sun, so two of Superman's weaknesses are completely irrelevant here.

As for magic, well that's the only reason Shazam is even on Supes' level in the first place. So it's not like Shazam is naturally as strong as Supes AND he has magic on top of that. Nope, The magic is what makes Shazam a class 100 flying brick in the first place.

Also, Shazam's other weakness is that little kid Billy controls the body at all times, overriding his supposed wisdom of Solomon (whom, historically, was ultimately quite foolish). Basically, Billy is nowhere near as smart nor as experienced as Clark is.

I agree the bolt can be a problem, but it’s one only Superman and Black Adam can use on him. Not to mention, that scene also showed the bolt can also be dangerous to Superman.

Actually, ANY class 100 brick with superspeed can do that to Shazam: Supes, Black Adam, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Zod, Bizarro, Ultraman, Ursa/Faora, etc.

And Supes took multiple bolts and still kept on fighting. He just treated them like lightning bolts with extra oomph.

But, as I said before, I see them as equal, in that Clark is stronger but Billy has fewer vulnerabilities, and I wish episodes like Clash stopped happening. I like it better when they’re allies.

On this we agree.

[SilverWarriorWolf]

Well, let's see: Shazam has no access to kryptonite nor to a red sun, so two of Superman's weaknesses are completely irrelevant here.

As for magic, well that's the only reason Shazam is even on Supes' level in the first place. So it's not like Shazam is naturally as strong as Supes AND he has magic on top of that. Nope, The magic is what makes Shazam a class 100 flying brick in the first place.

Also, Shazam's other weakness is that little kid Billy controls the body at all times, overriding his supposed wisdom of Solomon (whom, historically, was ultimately quite foolish). Basically, Billy is nowhere near as smart nor as experienced as Clark is.





Actually, ANY class 100 brick with superspeed can do that to Shazam: Supes, Black Adam, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Zod, Bizarro, Ultraman, Ursa/Faora, etc.

And Supes took multiple bolts and still kept on fighting. He just treated them like lightning bolts with extra oomph.





On this we agree.

I just feel this entire thread is one no one’s going to completely agree on. I just wish the whole hero vs hero thing in general would just die.