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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    Honestly, I think it should be Shazam, but the reason he may not be able to best Superman is because his childlike nature or mind holds him back from being on Superman’s level. I mean he has all powers that make him equal to Superman including a few added benefits from the gods as well as magic which Superman is weak to. So again I say Shazam.
    So are you insinuating that ideally, Shazam should be more powerful power wise, but because of Superman's greater character and maturity he still comes out more competent?

    I might be misinterpreting what you're saying, but it's an interesting idea.

  2. #32
    Mighty Member adkal's Avatar
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    If 'powerful' is with regard to their general range of abilities then, generally, Superman. If it's with regards to 'strength' then, to me, it's still Superman. (Just as J'onn has more abilities and so is more 'powerful' than Superman, but is not as strong nor as durable.)

    To my mind, on a base level, Superman is stronger, more durable, and potentially faster. Captain Marvel/Shazam has a base strength-level that is so close to Superman's that most don't know (can't tell) it's a little less; he's less durable but has something that gives him a major edge, and the nature of his speed is such that he can do Speed Force-esque feats far easier than Superman can but would be slower in a straight up race (it took Black Adam thousands of years to cross the universe and he and Cap are supposed to be equals).

    Cap is immensely durable but not at Superman's level, the key difference between them is the Stamina of Atlas. That element of Cap's power set allows him to heal instantly (one of my favourite scenes is when a tesseract bomb turned him inside out (JLA 112) and he recovered straight away) and, if going toe-to-toe with Superman, could give him the edge needed to win (the insta-heal means Cap won't be getting tired and all his injuries would vanish, while Superman, although he has enhanced healing, needs time to recover from injuries and would, if the fight was a prolonged one, end up tapping into his reserves).

    Speed-wise, again, because of the source of the ability, Cap can do things Superman has some difficulty with but the Flashes can do easily, and he doesn't have the atmospheric destruction risk that Superman does.

    Coupled with Achilles' courage, Cap also gains his martial knowledge (ditto with Hercules') and that's a major element in one-on-one and melee combat situations; Superman's prowess is primarily derived through experience (although I prefer that he spent time with the Legion and trained with Val). So, generally, Cap should be one of the most skilled warriors out there.

    The Power of Zeus coupled with the Wisdom of Solomon gives Cap access to a range of magic, including shapeshifting/disguise. If this is explored then Cap would be more 'powerful' than Superman, with regards to the range of his abilities.

    One of the key things across all of the Patrons (and something that Billy's nature tempers) is hubris. There may be times (perhaps even in battle) where this surfaces and perhaps temporarily overwhelms Billy's temperance, potentially leading to exposure or mistakes being made.

    On a non-physical comparison, one of the things that I like about them is that both are polyglots - difference is that Superman had to take time to learn the languages while Cap's is immediate and innate and includes lost and alien languages.

  3. #33
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    Shazam should be more powerful because he has 6 god-like entities. But due to DC always watering Shazam down to make Superman look good it just wont happen

  4. #34
    Mighty Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelinaK12 View Post
    Shazam should be more powerful because he has 6 god-like entities. But due to DC always watering Shazam down to make Superman look good it just wont happen
    Yet Superman (in various continuities/versions) has smacked around Hercules/Heracles, Zeus etc - since he has taken down several of the 'god-like entities' that Captain Marvel/Shazam has been gifted his abilities by then, going by your logic, Cap shouldn't really be able to take on Superman...


  5. #35
    Ultimate Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    So are you insinuating that ideally, Shazam should be more powerful power wise, but because of Superman's greater character and maturity he still comes out more competent?

    I might be misinterpreting what you're saying, but it's an interesting idea.
    Yeah I think that is what I was saying. I mean say what you will about Shazam but at best Billy has only ever reached 16 years of age and with that comes immaturity and differences in approach to situations then how Superman would handle it.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
    Words to live by.

  6. #36
    Incredible Member SilverWarriorWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adkal View Post
    If 'powerful' is with regard to their general range of abilities then, generally, Superman. If it's with regards to 'strength' then, to me, it's still Superman. (Just as J'onn has more abilities and so is more 'powerful' than Superman, but is not as strong nor as durable.)

    To my mind, on a base level, Superman is stronger, more durable, and potentially faster. Captain Marvel/Shazam has a base strength-level that is so close to Superman's that most don't know (can't tell) it's a little less; he's less durable but has something that gives him a major edge, and the nature of his speed is such that he can do Speed Force-esque feats far easier than Superman can but would be slower in a straight up race (it took Black Adam thousands of years to cross the universe and he and Cap are supposed to be equals).

    Cap is immensely durable but not at Superman's level, the key difference between them is the Stamina of Atlas. That element of Cap's power set allows him to heal instantly (one of my favourite scenes is when a tesseract bomb turned him inside out (JLA 112) and he recovered straight away) and, if going toe-to-toe with Superman, could give him the edge needed to win (the insta-heal means Cap won't be getting tired and all his injuries would vanish, while Superman, although he has enhanced healing, needs time to recover from injuries and would, if the fight was a prolonged one, end up tapping into his reserves).

    Speed-wise, again, because of the source of the ability, Cap can do things Superman has some difficulty with but the Flashes can do easily, and he doesn't have the atmospheric destruction risk that Superman does.

    Coupled with Achilles' courage, Cap also gains his martial knowledge (ditto with Hercules') and that's a major element in one-on-one and melee combat situations; Superman's prowess is primarily derived through experience (although I prefer that he spent time with the Legion and trained with Val). So, generally, Cap should be one of the most skilled warriors out there.

    The Power of Zeus coupled with the Wisdom of Solomon gives Cap access to a range of magic, including shapeshifting/disguise. If this is explored then Cap would be more 'powerful' than Superman, with regards to the range of his abilities.

    One of the key things across all of the Patrons (and something that Billy's nature tempers) is hubris. There may be times (perhaps even in battle) where this surfaces and perhaps temporarily overwhelms Billy's temperance, potentially leading to exposure or mistakes being made.

    On a non-physical comparison, one of the things that I like about them is that both are polyglots - difference is that Superman had to take time to learn the languages while Cap's is immediate and innate and includes lost and alien languages.
    Bravo! I’d say this is the interpretation I’d agree with the most.

  7. #37
    Incredible Member SilverWarriorWolf's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure this pic describes this thread well.

    https://imgur.com/7Z8BBQd

  8. #38
    Incredible Member SilverWarriorWolf's Avatar
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    Double post, sorry.
    Last edited by SilverWarriorWolf; 10-22-2018 at 01:03 PM.

  9. #39
    Kon93
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    What doesn't make sense about Billy's powers is that
    1- every God he gets powers from isnt limitless in power,so Billy has limits he won't be able to pass.
    2-how can anyone assume Billy gets the exact amount of power each God has,maybe they give him a portion,not all?
    3-and if they do give him all their power,shouldn't that mean they are powerless while he is using it?
    4- splitting the power up should make the gods weaker,and Billy's powers should get weaker if he splits it with the family.

    I see Billy as the superman who can't dial to 11.there is a limit that Billy can tap into,unlike superman who can tap on infinite energy. I don't see this as a huge drop,I would easily put Billy second in the DCU for power,and then below him diana and then on and on.

  10. #40
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    It's all magic is an easier out for Captain Marvel. Zeus was the king of the gods and supposed to be omnipotent--so there doesn't have to be a limit on him.

    Superman's power is based in science--albeit comic book science--so it's hard to understand how one person powered by the sun can have so much power without exploding. But then current theory has a hard time explaining the nature of the universe--so maybe there are undiscovered phenomena that are responsible for Superman's power levels.

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    I think they both have limits, but in different ways. As much as Superman can get a boost from the sun, I never thought the idea he could do some kind of Super-Saiyan transformation appealing. There's a limit as to how much his body can be powered by solar radiation. Meanwhile, Shazam can only be as strong as hercules or as fast as Hermes. Which is still, well, a lot. But it would be creative to apply Shazam's powers in ways that specifically replicate the feats of the gods themselves. Like, slaying beasts should come much more naturally to Shazam. I also think he should be the better wrestler and use of large objects as weapons, with Superman being the better boxer. It would also be cool of Shazam gained an edge in speed when given a particular "mission" or delivering a message as Hermes would, and having Superman edge him there otherwise.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kon93 View Post
    What doesn't make sense about Billy's powers is that
    1- every God he gets powers from isnt limitless in power,so Billy has limits he won't be able to pass.
    2-how can anyone assume Billy gets the exact amount of power each God has,maybe they give him a portion,not all?
    3-and if they do give him all their power,shouldn't that mean they are powerless while he is using it?
    4- splitting the power up should make the gods weaker,and Billy's powers should get weaker if he splits it with the family.

    I see Billy as the superman who can't dial to 11.there is a limit that Billy can tap into,unlike superman who can tap on infinite energy. I don't see this as a huge drop,I would easily put Billy second in the DCU for power,and then below him diana and then on and on.
    Billy doesn't draw his power from the gods. He gets duplicates of their powers.

  13. #43
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Superman.

    Captain Marvel shouldn't be that powerful.

  14. #44
    Kon93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Billy doesn't draw his power from the gods. He gets duplicates of their powers.

    Magically duplicating powers,yeah right

  15. #45
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    Shazam if he's written as he's suppose to be.

    DC tends to downplay him or chump him out to make Superman look good. Probably won't change anytime soon.


    DC portrays Captain Marvel incorrectly most of the time. When he is imbued with eh wisdom of Shazam he should essentially become an adult making it far more understandable for a child to inherit these powers based on his purity of heart. Most writers miss this point. Wisdom isn't intelligence. Wisdom is gained through experience, it ages Billy and makes him more mature. Captain Marvel can still hold some inclinations and proclivities from his child self but for all intents and purposes he should be an adult version of himself when he calls upon the power.


    Anyway to answer the question. Shazam should be stronger, but it will never happen because no current DC written or editor will allow that to happen.
    The J-man

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