Who Should Be More Powerful: Shazam or Superman?

[Kon93]

Yeah he was flying in radio dramas not the comics. There's a reason it was said that Superman "leaped tall buildings in a single bound" not fly over them. Also in the radio dramas Kryptonians were called Kryptonites.

This is why superman fans want him to juggle planets and time travel while also wanting him to jump over buildings and just lift cars,its hard being a superman fan lol.

[dswynne]

SNIP!

As for who's stronger, Clark or Billy? Clark. Sorry Shazam fans (I like him too) but Superman's at the top of that mountain by design. Everyone's got their role to play and their niche to fill in the DCU, and Superman's the strongest there is.

But that's the thing: SHazam and SUperman have ALWAYS been depicted as being "equal", in areas where the pair are similar, such "super-strength", "super-speed", "flight", "stamina" and invulnerability. The differences come when you look at everything else, such as Superman's "super-senses" (which Shazam does not have) and heat-vision (which, again, Shazam does not have). And, the only offensive weapon that Shazam has is Lightning (along with weather control and limited shapeshifting, powers associated with the power of Zeus). Of course, there's the magic angle that Shazam is suppose to have, but rarely utilizes.

But the key difference between Superman and Shazam is age and experience, which Superman has over Shazam. So, as far as the present depiction of Superman and Shazam, I would give the edge to Superman, even if he and Shazam are equal in the strength department (for the reasons I've stated).

[Kon93]

But that's the thing: SHazam and SUperman have ALWAYS been depicted as being "equal", in areas where the pair are similar, such "super-strength", "super-speed", "flight", "stamina" and invulnerability. The differences come when you look at everything else, such as Superman's "super-senses" (which Shazam does not have) and heat-vision (which, again, Shazam does not have). And, the only offensive weapon that Shazam has is Lightning (along with weather control and limited shapeshifting, powers associated with the power of Zeus). Of course, there's the magic angle that Shazam is suppose to have, but rarely utilizes.

But the key difference between Superman and Shazam is age and experience, which Superman has over Shazam. So, as far as the present depiction of Superman and Shazam, I would give the edge to Superman, even if he and Shazam are equal in the strength department (for the reasons I've stated).

I'm not sure they are treated as exactly equals anymore,sure they did it in the past,but superman "appears" to be a lil above him now.

[dswynne]

Like what Snyder did a few years ago when a Will o' the Wisp gave Superman a headache because the light was 'wrong'?



He didn't just keel over when someone pulled out a deck of tarot cards, but the protective magic around, for example, Doctor Occult's disc would hurt him.



It's not just any magic, though. A magic orb of light that only emits light, for example, won't hurt him. One that emits light and a low level heat won't burn him. One that burns like the sun might burn him. One that burns with the fires of hell most certainly would burn him.



The three you listed are all high level magic users, not your average street magician. They're Dumbledore level rather than Ron-with-a-busted-wand or Lockhart-I-can-only-really-do-memory-charms-and-pretty-much-suck-at-every-other-spell.



It doesn't work that way, either. That's another common misunderstanding. There have been numerous occasions where magical blasts have knocked down the League (including Batman) and Superman is still standing (Justice League: Primeval, for example). Magic has rules (Zatanna et al have said so, repeatedly) and the nature of the magic and the intended effect is a key aspect of how it will affect Superman:

- A sword enchanted to cut through all metal won't cut Batman but will (if he isn't wearing body armour) bruise him or even break his bones (impact injury), and it won't do diddly-squat to Superman (even though he's nicknamed 'The Man of Steel').
- A card enchanted to cut all earthly flesh will cut Batman but won't cut Superman.
- A magical vortex emitting 100mph winds will force Batman back (at the very least) but won't do anything to Superman.
- A magical vortex sucking things in at 100mph will likely suck in Batman but won't do anything to Superman (apart from have his cape flap around his head).
- A spell turning all humans into animals will affect Batman but won't affect Superman (Circe had to specifically engineer her spell to affect Superman.

The whole point of having a "magic weakness" is that Superman's powers are based on the physical laws of the DC Universe. "Magic" is not, and, in fact, warps reality based upon the willpower of the caster. That's why magic can be used offensively against Superman like any other person. However, Superman can resist the magic cast upon him, like any other person, by sheer willpower (like Batman, for instance). Ergo, even though Superman is susceptible to magic, he is not completely vulnerable to it either.

[dancj]

Pre-Crisis Superman was massively, explicitly weak to magic, so there's precedent for that take.

Was he? I don't remember that at all. The pre-crisis stories I remember involving magic tended to have characters like Mr Mxyzptlk who are casting the kind of spell which would work on him or anyone else. I don't remember anything weakening him just by being magical.

[dancj]

I don't know why it makes people feel better pointing out he isn't inherently weaker to magic that and Magic effects him the same say mere mortal Batman. It is fact that someone with all of the inherent resistances to damage that Superman has can be hurt by something just as easy as mere mortal Batman makes it relevant however it is spin a weakness.

I point it out because people misunderstand his weakness and take it to mean that characters like Captain Marvel who have magical origins to their powers get some kind of advantage over superman because of it.

[Superfan90]

Yeah he was flying in radio dramas not the comics. There's a reason it was said that Superman "leaped tall buildings in a single bound" not fly over them. Also in the radio dramas Kryptonians were called Kryptonites.

And? Superman was flying in radio serials and that's more influence than randomly copying Captain Marvel who flew AFTER the radio serials.

Cap was exactly a copy of Superman at that point.

[jetengine]

I'd run it like this.

Shazam is close to Superman but not equal. He has the potential to be more powerful but between him not understanding his abilities fully and his natural niceness he cant get there just yet.

[Ascended]

I'm not sure they are treated as exactly equals anymore,sure they did it in the past,but superman "appears" to be a lil above him now.

Yeah, I 'd say that since Lobdell took over the books in, what, 2012? that they've been sliding Clark back into a pre-Crisis power level (though not as over-the-top as the worst bits of the Silver Age), but I haven't noticed them doing it with any of the other flying bricks. Everyone else is still close to his strength level, and these things are never written consistently anyway, but there does seem to be a clear gap between Clark's strength and everyone else's.

Maybe Johns will write Billy with the kind of crazy strength we've seen out of Clark in recent years, but until then I don't think it can honestly be said that they're equal anymore, going by what's been on the page.

[Killerbee911]

I point it out because people misunderstand his weakness and take it to mean that characters like Captain Marvel who have magical origins to their powers get some kind of advantage over superman because of it.

No people are saying Captain Marvel can hurt Superman with Magic because well he has hurt Superman with magic. There is really isn't misunderstanding nobody is saying every spell or level of magic user can hurt superman and people understand he isn't inherently weak to magic.The best way of saying it is when Magic can hurt superman it does not care that he is "superman". Magic can hurt Superman, Magic can be a general weakness. No need for spin It is user by user thing in this case.In this case the answer is yes Captain Marvel has a way to hurt Superman with Magic

[Incognito]

I always see Superman and Shazam as physical equals in terms of strength. They both have different powers in terms of energy, Superman has heat vision, solar flare, multiple sets of vision-based powers and freeze breath while Shazam has lightning powers, magic and enhanced wisdom. If they were going to decide who is more powerful, it is most likely going to be Superman because he is the figurehead of DC Comics.

This is how I see it or how I would write them out in terms of their differences:

Strength - Superman and Shazam are physical equals. Would not mind if Superman was physically stronger than Shazam only by a little bit. Both of them could enhance their powers if Superman goes to the sun or Shazam calls the 'Strength of Hercules' and 'Power of Zeus' to enhance their strength lives.

Speed - Superman is faster than Shazam in terms of raw speed while Shazam has a portion of mercury's speed so he should be better than him in terms of skills which requires speed and precision.

Invulnerability - On a base level, Superman has 'Nigh Invulnerability' and is a little bit more durable than Shazam. Shazam can be at the same level of durability as Superman if he calls the 'Stamina of Atlas which gives him 'Temporary invulnerability' only for a limited amount of time. Superman is a little bit resistant to direct magic attacks because of his invulnerability (a normal human like Batman without wearing armour would be dead but for Superman, it would be like a taser shock) and his addition to his healing factor, but he is vulnerable to spell casting and magic that fools his senses. Shazam is highly resistant to magical attacks and spellcasting but he is weak against almighty forms of magic.

Healing - Superman's superior cells allows him to heal from almost any injuries and effects as long as he is in a yellow sun which gives him near-infinite energy to repair lost cells, damaged nerves, survive severe blood loss, damaged organs, bone cells, contaminants and helps to increase his vitality. Shazam may not be as invulnerable as Superman but he can heal faster due to the 'Speed of Mercury', which allows him to regenerate both damaged tissues and stamina, and physically restore him back to his natural powered state. In Flashpoint, Shazam was previously known as Captain Thunder, and he did not heal his wounded scar from Wonder Woman, so while his healing is very fast it does have limits, but since Flashpoint was seven years it does not really matter.

Sensory Powers - Superman possesses a superior sensory arrangement of visual capabilities, which include - X-Ray, Telescope, Electromagnetic and Microscope Vision. He can see various kinds of light in the EM spectrum, see with little or no light, instantly take notice of things if they move, see the flow of blood of living beings, see the bonds between atoms, detect invisibility, see soundwaves, percept energies, see everything at an accelerated rate and perceive and read auras. Shazam does not have the long-range list of sensory powers such as Superman, he possess senses which is more superior than normal beings but he has a few application of his sensory powers which Superman does not have, which are: the ability to percept magic and divine wisdom which grants him limited cosmic awareness, tactical analysis and scholarly knowledge.

Energy Powers - Superman under a yellow sun has heat vision, can emit all different kinds in the EM spectrum, freeze breath and solar flare, since he is a solar battery and can see the EM spectrum it would make sense if he could manipulate it and if he could learn to control his solar flare he could emit a miniature solar wave/blasts from his eyes and/or hands, Superman seems to have more destructive-based powers which could destroy almost anything from his path. Shazam has the 'Power of Zeus' which grants him magical lightning powers, weather manipulation, fueling magical powers, sharing his powers to others and a dimensional teleportation to the Rock of Eternity. I remember that scene in Trials of Shazam where Sabrina De La Croix use the 'Wisdom of Solomon' to access spell-casting and conjure two swords out of thin air, I am going to add 'Power of Zeus' in the mix so you would need two words of powers 'Wisdom' and 'Power' to activate spellcasting. Superman's energy powers are more internal while Shazam can use it in both internal and external means. Superman can manifest new powers if he is under a blue sun, white sun, quasar or pulsar.

They both got their advantages and disadvantages, when it comes to Superman and Shazam, Superman has more experience than Billy even though he has the 'Wisdom of Solomon' but he still has the maturity of a child/teenager so I could see Superman beats him in terms of experience, I would say that Superman has better physical capabilities when it comes to physical power and senses while Shazam has the better power set in terms of energy and how he can use those applications for certain methods. Billy is supposed to be the 'Champion of Magic', so I see his superpower as being exclusive to fight the forces of magic it just that his physical stats is comparable to Superman, which his powers come from both his natural biology and the yellow sun.

[phantom1592]

No people are saying Captain Marvel can hurt Superman with Magic because well he has hurt Superman with magic. There is really isn't misunderstanding nobody is saying every spell or level of magic user can hurt superman and people understand he isn't inherently weak to magic.The best way of saying it is when Magic can hurt superman it does not care that he is "superman". Magic can hurt Superman, Magic can be a general weakness. No need for spin It is user by user thing in this case.In this case the answer is yes Captain Marvel has a way to hurt Superman with Magic

People say both things really. I still remember this one where Cap sucker punches Superman.





Really I wish they'd just trash the 'weakness to magic' concept in its entirety if they can't keep it consistent. When they say he has no invulnerability to magical strength... but then doesn't get his head caved in like a pumpkin against Thor's hammer or stuff... then it's a lie. He's still Superman durable

[SiegePerilous02]

^Yeah that scene makes more sense if it plays out as Clark getting punched by someone as strong as him that he had his guard down around, and thus wasn't remotely expecting it.

Does Captain Marvel have magical punches or anything? Or are his physical feats just powered by magic like Superman's are powered by the sun + his biology? The end result is the same, they are both strong and near invulnerable, just because of different sources.

[byrd156]

And? Superman was flying in radio serials and that's more influence than randomly copying Captain Marvel who flew AFTER the radio serials.

Cap was exactly a copy of Superman at that point.

Superman was a orphan who turned into a hero by saying Shazam? Superman was originally a bald headed villain that was later reimagined into the iconic hero.

Cap has been pretty much the same since he debut. The characters both appeared around the same time, even if one was a copy of the other Captain Marvel proved to be the more popular one so there would be nothing "random" about copying him. Which lead to the lawsuit that screwed Fawcett and eventually lead to DC acquiring Captain Marvel. I've seen people attribute Superman flying to radio dramas, the cartoons at the time but based purely off the comics he first flew on page in 1941. A whole year after Whiz Comics #2.

[Dr. Ellingham]

Superpowers? I get that it's debatable.

But a side question: Regardless of which character you prefer - does it matter?