Luke Cage Canceled by Netflix

[CliffHanger2]

Doubtful. Iron Fist was a flop and Cage was the next lowest in the pecking order. Daredevil is the crown jewel. Punisher was a standout and known character. Jones had an excellent first season. And Defenders was the big end game team up show. Cafe and Fist were the most expendable

What??? Cage was one of the highest rated shows and most watched. DD is probably the most generic out of all of them. When it comes to veiwership and critical acclaim its Cage first then Jessica Jones then DD that's the pecking order.

[JKtheMac]

This has gone from me not being overly concerned about the future of the Marvel / Netflix shows (while we just had Defenders being pushed out of sight and Iron Fist cancelled) to thinking we are seeing the inevitable end of this corner of the MCU.

The real danger here is that Netflix and Marvel TV become entrenched. It seems that this cancellation was not smooth or simple. That the final breaking point was a difference of opinions and expectations for a future Luke Cage Netflix show between the two parties. When the show-runner apparently throws up his hands and walks and the reaction from Netflix is 'OK we will cancel the show then' there are bridges that need rebuilding, and that takes a will to do so on both sides.

I think we can hear the bell tolling. There is a very real possibility we may only get the shows that are currently in production and never see any of these versions of the characters ever again. That means we only see Jessica Jones 3 and Punisher 2 and then it is all over. I would love to think a solution can be found, but I can't see one that doesn't involve Marvel TV throwing Netflix a huge lifeline.

[JKtheMac]

Not trying to be a conspiracy theorist but the cancellations seems to calculated. Netflix cuts two Marvel shows so if they were to return would have to scramble for a home. Everyone is saying send them to Disney Play but with their adult content wouldn’t fit there. Plus maybe that platform production slate is filled.

Would Luke Cage and Iron Fist be better off at Hulu?? I think so, but would the shows do better there? Are there many Hulu subscribers?

It just feels like a chess move by Netflix to counterattack Disney Play

I think it is unwise to look at it like this. The problems are bigger than this and the potential fallout for everyone is too damaging. To turn it into yet another conspiracy will only have all the fans weigh in with totally uneducated assumptions and that will only make things worse for everyone.

I have no idea where this Hulu idea first came from, but right now it is fantasy land. Netflix have no reason to place the contracts they hold with a competitor. At the moment nobody else can make these shows unless Netflix allows it. Not Marvel not Disney. All of these versions of the characters and settings are part of what Netflix own. If anyone wanted to make Luke Cage it would be a different show entirely, and right now Netflix could object legally.

Netflix hold the cards when it comes to these shows continuing. Marvel TV are unlikely to spend the cash to bring these shows away from Netflix. They were born on Netflix and they will probably die there unless Marvel TV have the will to keep then on Netflix and strike some kind of deal to encourage Netflix to do that. Right now I don't see this happening.

[Nevets]

How badly did Iron Fist flop? How close was Luke Cage to Iron Fists numbers? How much better is Daredevil doing with viewership numbers?

Iron Fist season 1 was the highest viewed of all previous Marvel Netflix shows. They don't release official numbers, so it takes a while, so we don't know about season 2.

These cancellations clearly had nothing to do with viewership.

[Osiris-Rex]

Who do you think is next on the Netflix chopping block? Jessica Jones or The Punisher? Or are both goners?

[XPac]

Who do you think is next on the Netflix chopping block? Jessica Jones or The Punisher? Or are both goners?

Jessica Hones losing it's show runner after the third season I suppose makes it a stronger candidate. But all of them might be goners eventually.

[JKtheMac]

Iron Fist season 1 was the highest viewed of all previous Marvel Netflix shows. They don't release official numbers, so it takes a while, so we don't know about season 2.

These cancellations clearly had nothing to do with viewership.

How would you even know this fact?

Luke cage was reportedly cancelled because of the creative differences between Netflix and Marvel TV so I agree it is nothing to do with ratings, but it seems unlikely that Iron Fist wasn't.

[JKtheMac]

Jessica Hones losing it's show runner after the third season I suppose makes it a stronger candidate. But all of them might be goners eventually.

If I was a gambling man I would put my money on all of them finishing as soon as the last shows being produced right now are on. I can't imagine Netflix pulling the trigger on a new commission in the current climate aside from Daredevil, and even this is in question if all the others finish.

[Iron Fist]

How would you even know this fact?

Luke cage was reportedly cancelled because of the creative differences between Netflix and Marvel TV so I agree it is nothing to do with ratings, but it seems unlikely that Iron Fist wasn't.

This is suspicious and feels like an excuse.

When there are creative differences they just hire a new show runner who will tow the line. One would imagine the creative differences is that the Daredevil people don't want Luke Cage swiping their X becomes the new kingpin of crime storyline from the Daredevil books. But it isn't like they can't write that development off in 2 episodes of the new season.

Feels like an excuse to facilitate Netflix's Marvel cull.

[JKtheMac]

This is suspicious and feels like an excuse.

When there are creative differences they just hire a new show runner who will tow the line. One would imagine the creative differences is that the Daredevil people don't want Luke Cage swiping their X becomes the new kingpin of crime storyline from the Daredevil books. But it isn't like they can't write that development off in 2 episodes of the new season.

Feels like an excuse to facilitate Netflix's Marvel cull.

Well according to the press reports Netflix were still not happy with the scripts after multiple iterations and reducing the number of episodes to ten, and Cheo Hodari Coker‏ had just had enough. Following the loss of the showrunner Netflix cancelled. That's a pretty big creative difference. There is no need for conspiracy theories when we have arguments like that to focus on.

If you are paying for something and can't agree with the seller on what it should be then you have every right to say no I don't want it.

[Cyke]

Well, here's one. though Netflix is secretive about its ratings, another way to gauge interest in the show is through social media. Luke Cage Season 1 netted 300,000 Instagram and Twitter posts, but Season 2 got them only 50,000. Iron Fist Season 1 got 120,000, but Season 2 got them a dismal 20,000.

It's too soon to tell about Daredevil Season 3's social media impact, but using social media as a metric, DD Season 4 could be in trouble.

Inverse article

More details from Business Insider

[XPac]

Well, here's one. though Netflix is secretive about its ratings, another way to gauge interest in the show is through social media. Luke Cage Season 1 netted 300,000 Instagram and Twitter posts, but Season 2 got them only 50,000. Iron Fist Season 1 got 120,000, but Season 2 got them a dismal 20,000.

It's too soon to tell about Daredevil Season 3's social media impact, but using social media as a metric, DD Season 4 could be in trouble.

Inverse article

More details from Business Insider

Cage went from 300,000 to 50,000? Ouch. I can sort of understand Iron Fist dropping from season 1 to season 2 since the first reason was heavily criticized... but I thought people for the most part liked Cages first reason.

Not that measuring social media necessarily perfectly gauges ratings... but it's interesting.

[JKtheMac]

Well, here's one. though Netflix is secretive about its ratings, another way to gauge interest in the show is through social media. Luke Cage Season 1 netted 300,000 Instagram and Twitter posts, but Season 2 got them only 50,000. Iron Fist Season 1 got 120,000, but Season 2 got them a dismal 20,000.

It's too soon to tell about Daredevil Season 3's social media impact, but using social media as a metric, DD Season 4 could be in trouble.

Inverse article

More details from Business Insider

It is a metric but as far as Netflix will be concerned they will be most interested in subscriber behaviour. So for example, what is the first thing you watch properly on Netflix, what do you rewatch, when you drop your subscription and then pick it back up what do you immediately watch. For longer term subscribers they will be interested in the zen diagrams. If Iron Fist and Luke Cage is watched exclusively by fans of Daredevil are they worth continuing? If Jessica Jones is watched by a wider demographic, who then go on to sample other shows, is that a reason to continue?

Social media analysis is more likely to be focused on new things, because that’s just how social media works. People talk about the new hotness not last year’s news. So it is great to analyse brand penetration but less good for brand loyalty outside of fandom.

[Cyke]

It is a metric but as far as Netflix will be concerned they will be most interested in subscriber behaviour. So for example, what is the first thing you watch properly on Netflix, what do you rewatch, when you drop your subscription and then pick it back up what do you immediately watch. For longer term subscribers they will be interested in the zen diagrams. If Iron Fist and Luke Cage is watched exclusively by fans of Daredevil are they worth continuing? If Jessica Jones is watched by a wider demographic, who then go on to sample other shows, is that a reason to continue?

Social media analysis is more likely to be focused on new things, because that’s just how social media works. People talk about the new hotness not last year’s news. So it is great to analyse brand penetration but less good for brand loyalty outside of fandom.

The point of the two articles isnt about judging fandom, b6it more of how to gauge, compensate and dig around when Netflix isn't providing official numbers or reasons for their cancellations.

Another thought is that it's beginning to sever ties with other studios, and Marvel Netflix shows are operated by ABC studios. Barring that, American Vandal -- which is also very well received like the MCU shows -- was cancelled earlier this week. But it's run by CBS studios. It's received so well that it was immediately shopped to other networks and services.

So what IS Netflix concerned with, then? We don't know, because they won't say. All that journalists have to go with are other avenues that could lead them to the answers but aren't answers provided by the company since they're keeping mum. They haven't said zip about viewer behavior, and really they have no reason to withhold that information if it's a reason for cancellation.

[JKtheMac]

The point of the two articles isnt about judging fandom, b6it more of how to gauge, compensate and dig around when Netflix isn't providing official numbers or reasons for their cancellations.

Another thought is that it's beginning to sever ties with other studios, and Marvel Netflix shows are operated by ABC studios. Barring that, American Vandal -- which is also very well received like the MCU shows -- was cancelled earlier this week. But it's run by CBS studios. It's received so well that it was immediately shopped to other networks and services.

So what IS Netflix concerned with, then? We don't know, because they won't say. All that journalists have to go with are other avenues that could lead them to the answers but aren't answers provided by the company since they're keeping mum. They haven't said zip about viewer behavior, and really they have no reason to withhold that information if it's a reason for cancellation.

They have no reason to give anyone an insight into their choices. If TV was invented today they probably wouldn’t release viewer figures either, but we are accustomed to them these days.

We know they were well into the process of bringing Luke Cage to the screen, so it can’t be all about cancelling other people’s shows. They plainly only wanted Luke Cage 3 if it met specific expectations, and those expectations were not met by the show runner. Of course he will blame the notes he was given and Marvel will claim it isn’t their fault, but it certainly seems they were unable to deliver the show Netflix were prepared to pay for.

It is entirely possible that they were being especially picky based on their own opinions about which episodes were watched and which other shows their subscribers preferred, but we will never know the full data.