View Poll Results: Who will win?!

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  • Jubilee, Rogue, Rachel

    6 6.12%
  • Gambit, X-23, Firestar

    8 8.16%
  • Dazzler, Beast, Banshee

    2 2.04%
  • Emma Frost, Danger, Magik

    26 26.53%
  • Bishop, Wolverine, Nightcrawler

    8 8.16%
  • Storm, Colossus, Archangel

    22 22.45%
  • Havok, Psylocke, Jean Grey

    43 43.88%
  • Cyclops, Warpath, Polaris

    17 17.35%
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  1. #46
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    There are plenty of ways to counter Storm. If Emma turns to diamond her organs won't freeze. Magik can just teleport to Limbo and take out everyone from the safety of another dimension. Or she could teleport Storm's head off or send her into the sun at bullet-time level speeds. Any heat-generating character might also be able to counter storm freezing them.

    Karma's possession has always been defined as 'psyonic' and distinct from telepathy. Any telepathy she has is rather pathetic in comparison both to her main ability and to other telepaths. Her possessing Magik was used in lieu of Xavier's telepathy when the latter wouldn't work at all - not because she had better telepathy, but because it was not the same as telepathy. The way her power has been used makes it so that it is not evidence of any sort of vulnerability to telepathy of the sort used by Xavier, Jean, Emma, ect.

    While this is just a theory - it is my belief that Magik has learned to turn her psy-shields off so that her teammates will trust her more and that she can turn them on again as need-be. Her immunity in the old days was usually defined as people like Xavier and Emma not being able to read her mind, with psychic attacks being largely unaddressed. Oddly enough her only feats for withstanding direct telepathic attacks as opposed to simple mind reading are from recent years, not from the era where her psy-shields were a recurring plot point.

  2. #47
    Storm Goddess Wind Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    who of the other teams do you think would be the most problematic for storm? simple removing the air from her opponents lungs would make this an easy win for her without the need of her team all while using various forms of weather to disorient the teams.
    For Storm's team I see the main issues being:

    - Magik - Taking anyone (or everyone) to limbo (or BFR to any location or time period), redirecting attacks, spell casting
    - Jean Grey - most powerful TP + powerful TK (can effectively attack from behind a powerful defensive shield) & would require concentration to keep her occupied that could leave her opposition vulnerable to other attacks
    - Danger - Could be hard to beat; She knows everyone's abilities present, can take out multiple targets simultaneously (like she did with the Sinister clones)
    - Rachel Grey - powerful TP + powerful TK (can attack from behind a powerful defensive shield; would require concentration to keep her occupied but would leave her opposition vulnerable to other attacks
    - Emma Frost - omega telepath that most cannot overcome (few have the TP defense feats to contend with her)
    - Banshee - his scream can stun, KO and/or hypnotize nearly everyone present (even put a City to sleep before IIRC whhen possessed by an N'gairai)
    - Dazzler - Dazzle strobes can blind, stun and even KO most people present, plus excellent defenses and gains power from the sound of battle around her
    - Polaris - powerful, excellent defenses, can neutralize her team.
    - Nightcrawler - tele-strikes or simple BFR

    Removing the air from her opponents lungs would be a difficult tactic to successfully execute with all of these powerhouses, teleporters and telepaths going at it. She should be a big target and would need to either on the move or have a defense in place that won't dominate her concentration/focus. She represents a tactical threat that would need to be answered out of the gate (i.e. no one wants a lightning cannonade, air shocks, thunderclaps, tornadic winds, AOE flash freezes, etc). Not saying her team can't win or won't wipe out a lot of opposition, but I don't think it would be easy and some teams have substantial advantages over her's.
    Last edited by Wind Rider; 10-22-2018 at 09:14 PM.

  3. #48
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Rider View Post
    For Storm's team I see the main issues being:

    - Magik - Taking anyone (or everyone) to limbo (or BFR to any location or time period), redirecting attacks, spell casting
    - Jean Grey - most powerful TP + powerful TK (can effectively attack from behind a powerful defensive shield) & would require concentration to keep her occupied that could leave her opposition vulnerable to other attacks
    - Danger - Could be hard to beat; She knows everyone's abilities present, can take out multiple targets simultaneously (like she did with the Sinister clones)
    - Rachel Grey - powerful TP + powerful TK (can attack from behind a powerful defensive shield; would require concentration to keep her occupied but would leave her opposition vulnerable to other attacks
    - Emma Frost - omega telepath that most cannot overcome (few have the TP defense feats to contend with her)
    - Banshee - his scream can stun, KO and/or hypnotize nearly everyone present (even put a City to sleep before IIRC whhen possessed by an N'gairai)
    - Dazzler - Dazzle strobes can blind, stun and even KO most people present, plus excellent defenses and gains power from the sound of battle around her
    - Polaris - powerful, excellent defenses, can neutralize her team.
    - Nightcrawler - tele-strikes or simple BFR

    Removing the air from her opponents lungs would be a difficult tactic to successfully execute with all of these powerhouses, teleporters and telepaths going at it. She should be a big target and would need to either on the move or have a defense in place that won't dominate her concentration/focus. She represents a tactical threat that would need to be answered out of the gate (i.e. no one wants a lightning cannonade, air shocks, thunderclaps, tornadic winds, AOE flash freezes, etc). Not saying her team can't win or won't wipe out a lot of opposition, but I don't think it would be easy and some teams have substantial advantages over her's.
    thanks for your detailed analysis as always. I think from canon there are enough instances that would at least support her being able to handle the characters you mentioned would give the team problems.

    a non-bloodlusted storm was able to ko her demon form in front of the school.

    there have been plenty of instances of a non-phoenix powered jean being beaten by storm that even with her tp and tk storm could make short work of her.

    danger I would concede there but I would imagine since is machine shorting her by removing power from her wouldnt be so difficult as she has done it with higher alien vessels before.

    rachel grey is the same as Jean, however there are instances from canon where Phoenix rachel grey had difficulty using her telepathy on her from long distances and had to get close to attempt to mount an effective attack.


    emma frost outside their initial encounter has never been able to beat storm and I dont think that would change in this instance.

    banshee is a different beast however to scream requires him to breathe. I think she would be able to incapacitate him before he could inhale getting a breathe to get a good sonic scream. also storm has been able to manipulate sound as such to reduce noise around her.

    storm has beaten Polaris every time they have had an encounter or overpowered her. dont see her as a factor.

    nightcrawler is a different beast and he could sneak a win based upon his solo. however I think her being able to sense shifts in the atmosphere, air, em spectrum should alert her to where he will port.


    I think you make good points and its a thing here where no one can definitely say who would win but I think there is beyond enough evidence from csnon to where one could argue storm and her team winning here.
    Last edited by butterflykyss; 10-22-2018 at 10:58 PM.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, BEYOND OMEGA, THE VOICE OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  4. #49
    Astonishing Member Steroid's Avatar
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    Storm does represent an immediate threat that would have to be taken off the board, not sure with the characters listed if anyone could do it solo but ido believe a coordinated attack could get it done. The problem for Storm would be her tactics. She would definetly go after the teleparhs first but i feel the one team that could take her's down would be Rogue's and the key would be Jubilee. Way i see it being basically a kid in Storm's eyes Jubes is the one person she would hesitate to attack and in that moment of hesitation Rogue sneaks a hand on her. Honestly this is just one scenario but the point is a calculated assault with any mix of character's could get Storm out the game and the same could be said for any character. It's not always about power.

  5. #50
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steroid View Post
    Storm does represent an immediate threat that would have to be taken off the board, not sure with the characters listed if anyone could do it solo but ido believe a coordinated attack could get it done. The problem for Storm would be her tactics. She would definetly go after the teleparhs first but i feel the one team that could take her's down would be Rogue's and the key would be Jubilee. Way i see it being basically a kid in Storm's eyes Jubes is the one person she would hesitate to attack and in that moment of hesitation Rogue sneaks a hand on her. Honestly this is just one scenario but the point is a calculated assault with any mix of character's could get Storm out the game and the same could be said for any character. It's not always about power.
    this is a fair point. I think a lot of this too would depend on if the characters are bloodlusted or not too.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, BEYOND OMEGA, THE VOICE OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    thanks for your detailed analysis as always. I think from canon there are enough instances that would at least support her being able to handle the characters you mentioned would give the team problems.

    a non-bloodlusted storm was able to ko her demon form in front of the school.
    I think she could beat most of the characters present in a one-on-one. But I'm factoring in that Storm would be looking out for her team as well. She would take the lead and try to strategize a way to win and look to coordinate their effort.

    there have been plenty of instances of a non-phoenix powered jean being beaten by storm that even with her tp and tk storm could make short work of her.
    I think a fight between them could go either way. In this fight Jean and Storm will be prime targets, as they represent the primary tactical dangers (along with Magik, Banshee and a few others).

    danger I would concede there but I would imagine since is machine shorting her by removing power from her wouldnt be so difficult as she has done it higher alien vessels before.
    Danger is designed to counter their powers. No doubt in my mind that she can counter Storm's (including EMPs). She is a huge problem for Ororo as she can self repair, doesn't need air, can fly, is highly durable, can unleash power energy blasts, has hard light constructs, and a bazillion combat tactic records for every single person present. She's someone they would need prep for.

    rachel grey is the same as Jean, however there are instances from canon where Phoenix rachel grey had difficulty using her telepathy on her from long distances and had to get close to attempt to mount an effective attack.
    Same as with Jean I think this could go either way. They are too powerful to where they would NEED focus and concentration to defend themselves against each other. The same way Rachel was vulnerable to Psylocke during World's end when Storm forced her to dedicate her power to keep Storm in check so Betsy could use her psi-sword on her. They could get picked off by a Havok, Cyclops, or other ranged attacker while focused on each other.

    emma frost outside their initial encounter has never been able to beat storm and I dont think that would change in this instance.
    I think Storm would beat Emma most of the time but she could also try other tactics. Emma is smart and familiar with fighting the X-Men. She may opt to take over the minds of Storm's teammates. Or cast illusions to confuse people on the battlefield.

    banshee is a different beast however to scream requires him to breathe. I think she would be able to capacitiate him before he could inhale getting a breathe to get a good sonic scream. also storm has been able to manipulate sound as such to reduce noise around her.
    Same as with Emma I think Storm would dominate a one-on-one against Sean, but he is 1 of 22 others fighting at the same time. His scream is an issue for anyone that can hear (hell technically the force is a problem for everyone present).

    storm has beaten Polaris every time they have had an encounter or overpowered her. dont see her as a factor.
    Agreed. But Lorna is very powerful and strong enough to put her in a high focus battle that could expose either of them to other attacks. They are both major threats and will get targeted (i.e. Cyclops, Havok and the telepaths will probably be going for them). I am not seeing where they have the luxury of getting tied up in a fight that would leave them vulnerable.

    nightcrawler is a different beast and he could sneak a win based upon his solo. however I think her being able to sense shifts in the atmosphere, air, em spectrum should alert her to where he will port.
    I think you are seeing where I am going with him as a big threat (Magik too). Storm's team can't afford to get distracted with everything going on around them because Kurt, who is an accomplished tactician, would look for that window to pick them off.

    I think you make good points and it a thing here where no one can definitely say who would win but I think there is beyond enough evidence from canon to where one could argue storm and her team winning here.
    Agreed. I think arguments can be made for multiple teams winning, including Storm's (especially if people ignored their morals). The battle location, time for preparation (Beast could be especially effective with tech and prep), where they are all starting from are all critical factors. I just don't see it being an easy win for anyone, and that this is a group battle with 20+ experienced (and some are very powerful) fighting simultaneously that can potentially one-shot each other so it can go either way.
    Last edited by Wind Rider; 10-22-2018 at 11:05 PM.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Rider View Post
    I think she could beat most of the characters present in a one-on-one. But I'm factoring in that Storm would be looking out for her team as well. She would take the lead and try to strategize a way to win and look to coordinate their effort.



    I think a fight between them could go either way. In this fight Jean and Storm will be prime targets, as they represent the primary tactical dangers (along with Magik, Banshee and a few others).



    Danger is designed to counter their powers. No doubt in my mind that she can counter Storm's. She is a huge problem for Ororo as she can self repair, doesn't need air, can fly, is highly durable, can unleash power energy blasts, has hard light constructs, and a bazillion combat tactic records for every single person present.



    Same as with Jean I think this could go either way. They are too powerful to where they would NEED focus and concentration to defend themselves against each other. The same way Rachel was vulnerable to Psylocke during World's end when Storm forced her to dedicate her power to keep Storm in check so Betsy could use her psi-sword on her. They could get picked off by a Havok, Cyclops, or other ranged attacker while focused on each other.



    I think Storm would beat Emma most of the time but she could also try other tactics. Emma is smart and familiar with fighting the X-Men. She may opt to take over the minds of Storm's teammates. Or cast illusions to confuse people on the battlefield.



    Same as with Emma I think Storm would dominate a one-on-one against Sean, but he is 1 of 22 others fighting at the same time. His scream is an issue for anyone that can hear (hell technically the force is a problem for everyone present).



    Agreed. But Lorna is very powerful and strong enough to put her in a high focus battle that could expose either of them to other attacks. They are both major threats and will get targeted (i.e. Cyclops, Havok and the telepaths will probably be going for them). I am not seeing where they have the luxury of getting tied up in a fight that would leave them vulnerable.



    I think you are seeing where I am going with him as a big threat (Magik too). Storm's team can't afford to get distracted with everything going on around them because Kurt, who is an accomplished tactician, would look for that window to pick them off.



    Agreed. I think arguments can be made for multiple teams winning, including Storm's (especially if people ignored their morals). The battle location, time for preparation (Beast could be especially effective with tech and prep), where they are all starting from are all critical factors. I just don't see it being an easy win for anyone, and that this is a group battle with 20+ experienced (and some are very powerful) fighting simultaneously that can potentially one-shot each other so it can go either way.
    1. ok I gotcha then that would make sense. I was looking at it like f everybody and bfr them like she did in world apart lol.

    2. fair enough. I'm always going to think ororo can job jean but I know she isnt a character to sleep on.

    3. all great points about danger but could a character like let's magneto beat her even with her knowledge of him? she may have the knowledge but what does danger have to prevent ororo from just shutting her down internally?


    4. fair enough. I just see ororo as unleashing mad aoe attacks to such a large degree and without care that it would be hard for anyone to really pinpoint her. I'm thinking specifically of this showing:





    even with this she was still able to talk with kurt and not harm him as he approached.

    5. she has experience but emma going against storm when she was hell bent on destroying her mind couldnt seal the deal. I dont see her bringing anything different to the table that rachel or Jean wouldnt also bring. causing confusion to the other members could work though.

    6. which is why I think her doing what she did similarly in world apart where her attacks were specific and direct, as well as instantly deployed to take out the main threats she would probably deploy. and with her powers she doesnt have to be next to anyone to instantly bfr.

    7. yes with banshee and with all the other fighters it would depend on how fast she attacked who she deemed the biggest threats and how quick she could respond to the second and tertiary threats. I think world apart demonstrates how fast she can go for those biggest threats while remaining unscathed and then bfr when necessary.

    8. yes agreed about kurt. I still think a fully realized storm written to her full abilities as shown in canon could make short work of him. even when porting especially when sensing the shift in wind and em fields.


    and agreed to your last point.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, BEYOND OMEGA, THE VOICE OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  8. #53
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    Team with Jean Grey wins on it period since I don't see anyone capable of beating her listed like Legion or Nate Grey

    Strongest characters on these teams:

    Jean, Rachel, Magik, Polaris, Storm.

    Those are the teams that have "fighting chances" the others are just trash and will be obliterated almost instantly
    Forget the old ways - Krakoa is god.

    OBEY

  9. #54
    Fantastic Member STORM1977's Avatar
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    Good fight. I rank the top 4 who has the best chance to win

    1. Emma, Danger & Magik

    2. Jean, Psylocke & Havok

    3. Storm, Colossus, & Archangel

    4. Rogue, Rachel & Jubilee

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    There are plenty of ways to counter Storm. If Emma turns to diamond her organs won't freeze. Magik can just teleport to Limbo and take out everyone from the safety of another dimension. Or she could teleport Storm's head off or send her into the sun at bullet-time level speeds. Any heat-generating character might also be able to counter storm freezing them.

    Karma's possession has always been defined as 'psyonic' and distinct from telepathy. Any telepathy she has is rather pathetic in comparison both to her main ability and to other telepaths. Her possessing Magik was used in lieu of Xavier's telepathy when the latter wouldn't work at all - not because she had better telepathy, but because it was not the same as telepathy. The way her power has been used makes it so that it is not evidence of any sort of vulnerability to telepathy of the sort used by Xavier, Jean, Emma, ect.

    While this is just a theory - it is my belief that Magik has learned to turn her psy-shields off so that her teammates will trust her more and that she can turn them on again as need-be. Her immunity in the old days was usually defined as people like Xavier and Emma not being able to read her mind, with psychic attacks being largely unaddressed. Oddly enough her only feats for withstanding direct telepathic attacks as opposed to simple mind reading are from recent years, not from the era where her psy-shields were a recurring plot point.
    the thing is everyone could counter characters but who has been shown to be consistently better. storm ko'd magik demon form with lightning. she canonically has vern shown to be a greater reservoir of actual magical energy than magik. now you may ask what does that mean but it demonstrates storms smell of energy far exceeds magiks.

    to emma and her diamond form you must gavent seen these scans:





    emma ran the hell out of dodge to avoid the winds of a localized F5 tornado so some doesnt have to worry about her insides when she has this at her disposal as well. her powers work instantly and many of the teams dont have a counter to this which is what makes her so dangerous.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, BEYOND OMEGA, THE VOICE OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  11. #56
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    Polaris' & Dazzler's teams for the win! The combo of Sean & Ali is being SERIOUSLY underestimated, as even alone, they're MAJOR threats. But together, WHOA, look out!x!

    It's interesting to note, that most the last men standing... would be women. The way I see it, the more powerful who would & should likely make it through to the final round, are:

    Rachel
    Dazzler
    Banshee
    Danger
    Magik
    Storm
    Havok
    Jean Grey
    Polaris

    I think there's arguments to be made for Rogue, Emma Frost, & Bishop also, in a tactical sense.
    Last edited by Heroine Addict; 10-23-2018 at 04:57 AM.

  12. #57
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    Good thing Iceman wasn't included, 'cause he'd just freeze-dry the entire battlefield, and everybody else on it.
    Last edited by Heroine Addict; 10-23-2018 at 03:22 AM.

  13. #58
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    Storm's 'defeat' of Magik in front of the school is hardly evidence, as Magik's powers were not under her control and just running wild. Under those circumstances she could not teleport, cast spells, or summon her soul sword. If they fought under normal circumstances, well, then Magik has fought evenly with Thor several times and defeated Dormammu. In every alternate reality where she goes evil, she trounces every X-Man who comes up against her like it's nothing. And she still has the ability to just turn off the powers of every mutant she comes up against. A single moment and Storm's back where she was when she lost her powers in her Mohawk days. It's a shame Danger is placed on Magik's team, because Danger is the one being in this entire matchup who can't have her powers removed by Magik and made defenseless, and so is arguably the best counter to her.

  14. #59
    Storm Goddess Wind Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heroine Addict View Post
    Good thing Iceman wasn't included, 'cause he'd just freeze-dry the entire battlefield, and everybody else on it.
    I was wondering why he wasn’t included. It could even the playing field a bit more for some of the teams and there are formidable fights for him here. Some characters can break free of his ice in sheer strength, others can melt it, and some have force fields to protect them and their teams from it. He is vulnerable to telepathy and energy/force has stunned or KO’d him before so I think he could’ve been fairly included.

  15. #60
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    My question to the Storm fans, why does Storm automatically get the KO with something like giving seizures or taking the air out of people's lungs (things I dont remember her doing on panel), but other characters get dismissed because that's not something we we have seen? I am really interested in knowing. I get the personal bias we all have for our characters but...
    Last edited by DiamondQueen; 10-23-2018 at 07:38 AM.

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