Take the Shelob Challenge

[Dalak]

A Nitpick: Even with just low light vision/night vision, shouldn't the Lightsaber put off enough to see by? There were multiple fight scenes lit by little other than those things.

As for the challenge at hand? I'd like to think that I could hack off any spider limbs getting close to me via Grievous tactics (Spinny Spinny), but I'm not sure if the induced-terror would paralyze me or inspire me to keep the huge nasty thing from hurting me.

[Sharpandpointies]

A Nitpick: Even with just low light vision/night vision, shouldn't the Lightsaber put off enough to see by? There were multiple fight scenes lit by little other than those things.

As for the challenge at hand? I'd like to think that I could hack off any spider limbs getting close to me via Grievous tactics (Spinny Spinny), but I'm not sure if the induced-terror would paralyze me or inspire me to keep the huge nasty thing from hurting me.

Put it this way -- it's a poor supernaturally-induced fear that makes people want to fight HARDER.

I might actually snag some quotes tonight to show what it did to a couple of hobbits who have....

1. Actual experience in horrific situations, having fought (and killed, in the case of Orcs) monstrous things themselves;
2. Actual demonstrated and noted resistance to magical stuff (like OhShit fear auras).

[Sharpandpointies]

As another point, while I always find the whole idea of 'Lightsabers are very dangerous for non-Force users to use' absolutely silly, in this case I will note that a completely inexperienced and untrained person who has been driven into a blind panic by supernatural power is rather likely to do some serious damage to themselves by wildly swinging a long, weightless murderstick around.

[Dalak]

Put it this way -- it's a poor supernaturally-induced fear that makes people want to fight HARDER.

I might actually snag some quotes tonight to show what it did to a couple of hobbits who have....

1. Actual experience in horrific situations, having fought (and killed, in the case of Orcs) monstrous things themselves;
2. Actual demonstrated and noted resistance to magical stuff (like OhShit fear auras).

People react to fear in different ways, like various animals. EX: Cats will flee 9 times in 10, but if backed into a corner they will fight even if terrified.

Oh, we are given a week of training time in the OP facing a holographic copy of Shelob minus the fear.

[Shai-Hulud]

Oh, we are given a week of training time in the OP facing a holographic copy of Shelob minus the fear.

So you could call up a program of Obi-Wan Kenobi to teach you saber techniques, using a non-lethal holographic saber at first.

You might also call up a hologram of a Vulcan Master or Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother to teach you special meditations to control fear, although obviously these disciplines don't equate to actual magical protection.

[Sharpandpointies]

People react to fear in different ways, like various animals. EX: Cats will flee 9 times in 10, but if backed into a corner they will fight even if terrified.

This is a specific supernaturally induced fear aura that Shelob uses to help her overwhelm her prey. Not the standard, unpredictable results fear aura. And yes, the hobbits did ready themselves to fight once they were backed into a corner, but it's pretty specific in the book that the only thing that ALLOWED them to fight in that situation was the glowing, literally-holy light of the Phial of Galadriel.

Sam only fought Shelob later because...

1. He was BEHIND her at the start;
2. He had the Phial of Galadriel (snatches it up);
3. She wasn't actively reaching out with her power any more (this is kind of the main thing, here, as at this point Shelob was all 'Okay, got my food, let's web this up and call it a day');
4. He was chugging rage-a-hol in a way that he wouldn't for his own life, because (to his mind) Shelob had maybe just killed Frodo.

Additionally, I personally feel that assuming I will react with sudden, savage violence under the influence of this supernatural fear rather than collapsing into a mess or fleeing in screaming panic, would be giving myself a level of badass not shown in a book where people who actually kill creatures in violent conflict fall apart in the face of this aura.

Mileage, of course, may vary. ^_^ I can't speak for other people, who may have hidden levels of utter badass far, far greater than that of Sam and Frodo, who in the book fought and killed orcs in straight-up combat, struggled onward under the Witch-king's aura, etc.

...that might sound a little snarky, but I'm unsure of how to put it any more clearly.

Oh, we are given a week of training time in the OP facing a holographic copy of Shelob minus the fear.

A week of training doesn't make people 'trained'; under pressure, everything is still going to fall apart (ask anyone who actually participates in combat sports if a week of training is sufficient once the feces hits the fan). And training to fight a giant spider thing that doesn't have a hysterical-panic-inducing supernatural fear aura is a bit of a difference from facing the same thing WITH the aura.

[Sharpandpointies]

So you could call up a program of Obi-Wan Kenobi to teach you saber techniques, using a non-lethal holographic saber at first.

A week of this isn't going to teach anyone to fight, just to note.

Edit: ESPECIALLY not just in the run of the mill 'your life is at risk' kind of pressure (because we all face that, all the time, and it doesn't really affect our abilities...oh wait), but throwing 'magical supernatural fear aura' on top of that. ^_^

You might also call up a hologram of a Vulcan Master or Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother to teach you special meditations to control fear, although obviously these disciplines don't equate to actual magical protection.

Unless that kind of training works fantastically against magical spiritual creature created supernatural fear, I'm iffy on it being worth a darn. Especially, again, with all of a week.

Hey, mileage may vary, but my feeling? Anyone saying yes who isn't using a poster persona isn't coming out again.

[Sharpandpointies]

I mean, hey, consolation prize! Valhalla! If you're into that, and you feel there's even a 1% chance you'll win, why not?

But I'm figuring that Odin is going to be looking at a lot of new residents, myself.

[Sharpandpointies]

This is starting to feel like that thread on the old board where someone pitted a Xenomorph against us in a parking garage and then tried desperately to find ways to make it not so much of a curbstomp for the Alien, arguing 'you could do this!' in complete defiance of stuff like massive physical disparity, resistance to anything we could throw at it, sensory ability versus hiding, acid blood, etc, etc (lack of car keys as well).

Sometimes one just needs to admit one created a bit of a stomp. ^_^ No shame, there.

[Shai-Hulud]

A week of this isn't going to teach anyone to fight, just to note.

Edit: ESPECIALLY not just in the run of the mill 'your life is at risk' kind of pressure (because we all face that, all the time, and it doesn't really affect our abilities...oh wait), but throwing 'magical supernatural fear aura' on top of that. ^_^

Unless that kind of training works fantastically against magical spiritual creature created supernatural fear, I'm iffy on it being worth a darn. Especially, again, with all of a week.

Hey, mileage may vary, but my feeling? Anyone saying yes who isn't using a poster persona isn't coming out again.

Yeah, looking back I'd revise the scenario:

One year of training, and get to actually train with the actual Obi-Wan Kenobi who can (presumably) use Force telepathy to train you to resist actual fear.

You don't get the Force yourself, though.

[Sharpandpointies]

And now I'm rambling, post after post.

.....

I blame Lord of the Rings threads. ^_^

[Sharpandpointies]

Yeah, looking back I'd revise the scenario:

One year of training, and get to actually train with the actual Obi-Wan Kenobi who can (presumably) use force telepathy to train you to resist actual fear.

Okay, assuming that it's possible to do that with the Force (ie, another supernatural thing, this time actually being used AGAINST supernatural fear), this scenario is likely to give much better results.

[MrSandman]

This is starting to feel like that thread on the old board, where someone pitted a Xenomorph against us in a parking garage and then tried desperately to find ways to make it not so much of a curbstomp for the Alien, arguing 'you could do this!' in complete defiance of stuff like massive physical disparity, resistance to anything we could throw at it, sensory ability versus hiding, acid blood, etc, etc (lack of car keys as well).

Sometimes one just needs to admit one created a bit of a stomp. ^_^ No shame, there.

[The MunchKING]

Psh I've got WAY deadlier things than a Lightsaber, and FIGHT way deadlier things than a giant spider all the time. I mean the Death Penalty ALONE would do an incalculable amount of damage to her.

[Shai-Hulud]

Okay, assuming that it's possible to do that with the Force (ie, another supernatural thing, this time actually being used AGAINST supernatural fear), this scenario is likely to give much better results.

The idea would be that, even as a martial arts instructor could grab your arms and position them to help you learn ("this way"), Obi-Wan could (presumably) help you cultivate some proper channels in your mind.

Mister Spock would be another option.

But it would be mental training, not him implanting robotic commands. So, "Here's how we confront fear within the mind, now do it yourself," kind of thing.