stormbreaker thor vs surtur

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Here's the clip for the sake of conversation. My position is not resolute as well, I'm willing to change my mind given sufficient reasoning.

[The Arbiter]

Hmm. I think it may just come down to each individuals own perspective as to what qualifies as a reflexive action or not.

To me, personally, it seems like post lightning, it takes him about 1 full second to stand, locate Thor in the sky, and then rifle off the blast. Doing all that directly following being pushed across the forest floor feels like a very quick and mostly reflexive action. Mileage may vary! =)

We also get into a tricky arguing point of then saying things like, I guess Wanda can push back moon crushing + forces for a period of time if we follow the logic that each gem is a power up and every subsequent action can be scaled to the previous feats.

We know Thanos can choose how much power goes into what hence my previous example of shattering Stranges shield, or say, not turning Mantis into mist with the same attack that KO'd Drax.

Even after all of that, the ONLY other thing we see 6 gems do is literally wipe out 50% of all life in the universe. A feat that is like a gazillion times as impressive as the moon. Did SB smash through that level of force?

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Hmm. I think it may just come down to each individuals own perspective as to what qualifies as a reflexive action or not.

To me, personally, it seems like post lightning, it takes him about 1 full second to stand, locate Thor in the sky, and then rifle off the blast. Doing all that directly following being pushed across the forest floor feels like a very quick and mostly reflexive action. Mileage may vary! =)

We also get into a tricky arguing point of then saying things like, I guess Wanda can push back moon crushing + forces for a period of time if we follow the logic that each gem is a power up and every subsequent action can be scaled to the previous feats.

We know Thanos can choose how much power goes into what hence my previous example of shattering Stranges shield, or say, not turning Mantis into mist with the same attack that KO'd Drax.

Even after all of that, the ONLY other thing we see 6 gems do is literally wipe out 50% of all life in the universe. A feat that is like a gazillion times as impressive as the moon. Did SB smash through that level of force?

And that's fair on the reflexes, but he didn't seem otherwise ... well concerned, at least from expression. He only shows surprise/shock, when he realizes Stormbreaker is cutting through his attack (and it looks like he tries puts in more oomph only to catch it with his chest). Still, I'm fine conceding the point here.

As for the power of the blast itself ...

It -- the blast -- wouldn't necessarily need to be on the level of what he does next.

The finger snap at full power was clearly well beyond anything else he'd done to that point, to the point where it was almost too much for the gauntlet.

Also, to the point about how much oomph he puts into the Gauntlet actions, sure, but it's shown pretty clearly that there's a difference between having /some/ of the gems, and having the full collection. So his reflexive blast being on the level of his previous things, honestly, isn't near as far fetched as you're making it out to be, it's not as if his reflexive 'kill Thor' blast with a completed Gauntlet is going to be so weak that we invalidate both the presentation of Stormbreaker (a weapon to compete with the full Gauntlet), and the implications displayed not two seconds prior when the Gauntlet was complete.

Especially given the feats for Stormbreaker are 'wrecks shop and lolnopes the Gauntlet'.

You see energy course through his veins and amp him up the second the Mind Gem is added to finish the gem, for example. With Wanda, that's a fair enough point ... but I'd also point out he doesn't shatter the entire moon, just rips up the surface and pulls the fragments from the sky. Leaving gravity to do the rest once they enter orbit. Not as if he destroyed the entire moon.

[Tomzilla]

Surtur's speed--as Hela and Hulk would attest--belies his size. Thor with Stormbreaker would undoubtedly be able to evade his attacks, but there's a chance he might be plucked out of the sky or find the sharp end of his Twilight Sword if he's not too careful. Speaking of Surtur's Twilight Sword, it's an immensely powerful weapon; when he fought Thor in his weaker form, the Twilight Sword's fire blast was strong enough to push Thor and his spinning Mjolnir back. At full power, it annihilated Asgard.

With that said, I'm leaning towards Thor, mainly because of Stormbreaker.

While I doubt Stormbreaker can use the Bifrost in the same way Loki used it back during his mad-quest to destroy Jotenheim, a case can be made about it potentially severing one of Surtur's limbs, or maybe even separating his crown from his massive head. I find the latter strategy more plausible because the Bifrost has been used by Asgardians before to snatch away a superweapon (e.g., the Asgardians whisking the Aether away from Malekith).

That or Thor could try hurling Stormbreaker with all his godly might at Surtur's head, in the hopes of knocking off his crown.

[choptop]

I'd agree that Surtur destroying Asgard is a better damage feat, but on the other hand, that seems to have DEFINITELY been a suicide move for him, and he was not completely immune from Hulk pounding on him or Hela's attacks. They didn't STOP him, but he wasn't no-selling their efforts. And Thor, with Stormbreaker, seems pretty far beyond their levels. Hell, in Thor's pre-perfect, unmastered SSJ2 form, he was absoutely owning Hulk, without a hammer to help out. I mean, Thor can at the very least fly and hit Surtur with the bifrost until he's BFR'd, cut to piecies, or destroyed à la Jotunheim.

Wasn't he noselling the hulk's hits?

[big_adventure]

Wasn't he noselling the hulk's hits?

Not exactly: Thor was getting ground 'n pounded, basically incapable of responding, when he sees a flash of dear old dad. He then goes SSJ2 for the first time, knocks the Hulk right the hell off of him and visibly leaves him ragdolled and stunned. Thor stands up absolutely none the worse for wear. He strolls towards the Hulk, giving the Hulk time to shake himself somewhat clear, they charge, jumping, at each other, and Thor hits Hulk because, you know, Thor is a significantly better, quicker fighter than Hulk, and drops him like a bad habit. Thor again strolls toward the incapacitated Hulk, giving him time AGAIN to shake it off and stand, but still clearly about to end the fight with one more shot, when the Grandmaster used his Control Disk control stick thing to stun Thor. Hulk then pounds the crap out of the stunned Thor. Next scene, Thor wakes up in Hulk's quarters, unmarked and undamaged after all of that.

[Morning]

I hate to ask this annoying question but how many people are/were there in the MCU? Assume with me for a second that the Time and Space gems make distance irrelevant--that it takes no more energy to disintegrate a person from across the room than across the universe--the only quantifiable part of the feat would be in how many people he could do it to at once. How large would the population of the universe have to be before the mass of the targeted equaled the mass of, for reference sake, our moon?

Unless I'm misplacing decimals like crazy, it looks like it would take more than 10 billion times the total biomass (which is much more than just life) of Earth to equal the mass of the moon. Of course the moon wasn't completely disintegrated, so you could shave off a few orders of magnitude, but still...

[The Chou Lives]

Remember on Titan Thanos only had four Gems for Moon pull and it seems he uses Space Gem to replicate Telekinesis.

[Slade1]

When all of the gems were added to the gauntlet too, it explicitly powered him up.

Isn't that the whole point of the Infinity Gauntlet? To power you up?

[The Chou Lives]

Isn't that the whole point of the Infinity Gauntlet? To power you up?

Yes and No.

MCU And 616 are different but yeah the Gems, the more you have the greater result with what you used. The Power Gem in particular in the comics acts as a battery/enhancer to other gems in your IF.

When all Gems, one can do things on a universal scale. Otherwise the most one can get is planetary ( seems like case in MCU.)

[The Drunkard Kid]

Yes and No.

MCU And 616 are different but yeah the Gems, the more you have the greater result with what you used. The Power Gem in particular in the comics acts as a battery/enhancer to other gems in your IF.

When all Gems, one can do things on a universal scale. Otherwise the most one can get is planetary ( seems like case in MCU.)

Well, the Reality Gem by itself can do potentially universal stuff, given an external interstellar/dimensional Convergence event to work with.