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  1. #256
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oasis1313 View Post
    I can believe the theory that Tim wanted or still wants to get rid of his parents. Merely being the sole heir of the vast Drake Industries really isn’t as cool as being Batman’s partner and heir to the even vaster Wayne fortune. They’re probably fairly safe as long as they stay in Witless Protection and out of their brilliant perfect son’s way because—after all, they aren’t good enough for him.
    The problem is, all theories should be hold by some kind of proof, and in this case, I cannot bring myself to remember anything that could point at that, unless you twist some comicbooks into totally unrecognizable texts and images.

    Which is why I was asking, because maybe there were proofs I didn't get to read.

    I get that some of you cannot stand the character at all, but, come on. If you guys are going to drop that bomb, at least, use something to back up those statements. And not out of context, if possible. I enjoy making wild theories as much as anyone, but I like those theories to have some foundations, solid or not \o/.

    Also, mixing pre and post FP is always, always a bad idea, unless you're working something Green Lantern related.
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  2. #257
    Spectacular Member Flashback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
    Since when, and how, Tim was guilt or directed his father to be killed/murdered? Did I miss something in translation or something? Are we reading different comics? I do think Bruce has been everything but good for him, but, er... What are you talking about?
    I think you misread what he (Arctic) wrote near the end.

    getting his dad's murderer out on a technicality in order to manipulate him into a series of choices that will justify Tim's cold blooded murder of him.
    Edit: wait, now I'm confused, can't tell if your responding to Arctic or oasis.

  3. #258
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    I was responding to Arctic the first time, and yep, I totally misread that part, which made me very confused. Now it makes more sense (Tim did plotted for that). My bad.
    I love sleeping, I really do. But I also love to do all kinds of stuff. Which means I don't sleep enough in the end.

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  4. #259
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    i have had my thoughts on why nobody knows why Tim even is Robin anymore and even DC never knows thus push reasons like "he always knew", or "he wanted to be the best" into Tim. That reason is Dick Grayson.
    Originally he was robin because he was Dick Grayson's fanboy.The Dick Grayson who was the legendary Robin, who was the original teenager responsible for a man's mental well being, who trained tim and most importantly pushed Tim into that role so he can sign out. The Dick Grayson who was Batman to his wee Robin days. He was stalking Dick Grayson thus Robin. He's not a detective who truely found batman's identity with SKILLS, he was just a fanboy. After 1994, i feel like that Dick Grayson died and Dick stopped being the "legendary Robin who Batman needed" and started going the "failed Robin who needed Batman" route and got his skills shafted a bit. I don't think Post 0-hour and 2000s Dick was ever Batman who taught Tim his first detective lesson. When Dick was losing development, Tim was gaining from his losses in contuinity and KEPT it.

    To make the or iginal motive "i want to help Batman" work, Dick Grayson has to be the better Robin, the best, and Tim's brother who is ahead of him, who he was from 88 to 97 but no longer. When Dick stopped being the most successful Robin, Tim started going questionable places. He never sat him down or taught Tim much about morals, but i feel like just him being superior in age and skills can reign Tim back into "normal kid" and not"genius who has a motive" . He was there to make, and make sure Tim WORK FOR IT like a normal person and in rougher words, clean up the mess he left behind.

    Arctic Cyclist, i know you are a Damian fan, but there's a reason I subscribe more to the Pre-Flashpoint idea that "Dick is arguably closer to Tim" than Damian. Before Damian came, Dick was Batman and he did think about why things are good to do, with Tim as his compass. Morrison's B&R and Rebirth Dick and Damian made Dick take even further steps back, thus Tim's foundation broke.
    Last edited by nhienphan2808; 12-06-2018 at 04:29 AM.

  5. #260
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhienphan2808 View Post
    i have had my thoughts on why nobody knows why Tim even is Robin anymore and even DC never knows thus push reasons like "he always knew", or "he wanted to be the best" into Tim. That reason is Dick Grayson.
    Originally he was robin because he was Dick Grayson's fanboy.The Dick Grayson who was the legendary Robin, who was the original teenager responsible for a man's mental well being, who trained tim and most importantly pushed Tim into that role so he can sign out. The Dick Grayson who was Batman to his wee Robin days. He was stalking Dick Grayson thus Robin. He's not a detective who truely found batman's identity with SKILLS, he was just a fanboy. After 1994, i feel like that Dick Grayson died and Dick stopped being the "legendary Robin who Batman needed" and started going the "failed Robin who needed Batman" route and got his skills shafted a bit. I don't think Post 0-hour and 2000s Dick was ever Batman who taught Tim his first detective lesson. When Dick was losing development, Tim was gaining from his losses in contuinity and KEPT it.

    To make the or iginal motive "i want to help Batman" work, Dick Grayson has to be the better Robin, the best, and Tim's brother who is ahead of him, who he was from 88 to 97 but no longer. When Dick stopped being the most successful Robin, Tim started going questionable places. He never sat him down or taught Tim much about morals, but i feel like just him being superior in age and skills can reign Tim back into "normal kid" and not"genius who has a motive" . He was there to make, and make sure Tim WORK FOR IT like a normal person and in rougher words, clean up the mess he left behind.

    Arctic Cyclist, i know you are a Damian fan, but there's a reason I subscribe more to the Pre-Flashpoint idea that "Dick is arguably closer to Tim" than Damian. Before Damian came, Dick was Batman and he did think about why things are good to do, with Tim as his compass. Morrison's B&R and Rebirth Dick and Damian made Dick take even further steps back, thus Tim's foundation broke.
    It doesn't matter what yo subscribe to what matter is canon.
    In current Canon Tim became Robin part because he was trying to be part of Dick and Batman's life. Dick offered to come Back as Nightwing but Tim wasn't happy with that. When asked by Oz he said it couldn't be Dick it had to be him. Meaning that it was nothing to do with Batman's light or batman needing anyone it was that Tim wanted in on batman and Robin.

    Tim isn't close to Dick not in this continuity and even in the old continuity what Dick and Damian have is something Tim and dick never had. Sure in the past they used to brothery but Damian and dick are more than siblings.

    Current Tim has no history with Dick. Shortly after he joined the family Bruce passed, dick gave Robin to Damian and Tim went off [we are yet to find out what he was doing because he wasn't with Dd]

    Tim has very little connection with Dick or Bruce as it stands.
    On the light thing Dick is the only Robin that helped Batman and the only Robin to ever be a light to Batman . Tim's Batman needs Robin was just a gimmick to sell him to fans after Jason. Batman doesn't need Robin to be his light though Bruce needed Dick to give him focus and give him a personal positive reason for fighting.

    Dick Grayson has a lot of talents sadly seeing the future isn't one of them. I doubt he'l see Damian as a compass when he doesn't know Damain he would use the person he wants to be a role model for Te impressionable one he knows and cares about. So yeah before Damian tat was Tim but to Damian came and they had a new impressionable baby. Even if Tim retained his history Dick would still have replaced his image with Damian because Damian would still be the most impressionable and the fact that Dick raised Damian. Yeah moral compass tim was toast the day Dick decided to save Damian.

    fyi

    Having someone as your moral compass doesn't mean you are closet to them if it did then Dick would have Bruce as his compass.
    Last edited by dietrich; 12-06-2018 at 11:12 AM.

  6. #261
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Jason's a shooter, Damian's a stabber.
    What's Tim and Dick?
    ...
    Dick is the annoying one. He'll kill you with puns.
    Dick's the Punster. (actual quote from the bronze age. Master Punster, to be exact)
    Tim's a hacker.

  7. #262
    Astonishing Member Mutant God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Jason's a shooter, Damian's a stabber.
    What's Tim and Dick?
    ...
    Dick is the annoying one. He'll kill you with puns.
    Dick's the Punster. (actual quote from the bronze age. Master Punster, to be exact)
    Dick is an acrobat so hes a dodger and he has stun sticks
    Tim is a hacker but also uses a staff
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    Skeeter: No! I wanna know som'in from the "O5" How come you cant go back to your own timeline in the first place and how come when Reed Richards "fixed" the universe you wasnt put back and how come the changes that happn to you dont happn to your present day selves?

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  8. #263
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    So, Dick’s a wacker...

  9. #264
    Spectacular Member Flashback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    It doesn't matter what yo subscribe to what matter is canon.
    I agree with that but I would like to rebuff some of the things you said.

    In current Canon Tim became Robin part because he was trying to be part of Dick and Batman's life. Dick offered to come Back as Nightwing but Tim wasn't happy with that. When asked by Oz he said it couldn't be Dick it had to be him. Meaning that it was nothing to do with Batman's light or batman needing anyone it was that Tim wanted in on batman and Robin.
    You have to remember that Tim was a kid when he decided to be Robin, and even then he knew chose to be Robin because he viewed 'it' has quintessential to Batman. I say Batman because you see Tim say things like Gotham city needs a Batman and when Alfred says that Dick and Bruce will be working again, Tim say's "Yeah..but I can't still help but feel that that's not what Batman needs", not Bruce but Batman. Its not like Dick(Nightwing) couldn't be it, more that it had to be "Robin". For whatever reason he viewed Batman with a Robin were essential, perhaps to save Gotham? who knows, he was a kid after all, but as he grows up he realizes that was foolish by saying "...I put it on for the first time when I was a kid. I'm smart enough to know that there might be a better way to help the world." His decision to be Robin was always to help Batman be the best he could be.

    Tim isn't close to Dick not in this continuity and even in the old continuity what Dick and Damian have is something Tim and dick never had. Sure in the past they used to brothery but Damian and dick are more than siblings.
    I give you that Tim isn't close to Dick in this continuity but how are Dick and Damian relationship more than siblings? In the old continuity Dick probably viewed Tim and Damian as his brothers. I guess you can make a case on who Dick likes more? (in the old continuity)

    On the light thing Dick is the only Robin that helped Batman and the only Robin to ever be a light to Batman . Tim's Batman needs Robin was just a gimmick to sell him to fans after Jason. Batman doesn't need Robin to be his light though Bruce needed Dick to give him focus and give him a personal positive reason for fighting.
    "It doesn't matter what yo subscribe to what matter is canon." Again, Dick being the only light to Batman can be argued. You can pick which ever Robin you prefer and make a case that they were a light to Batman.

    Having someone as your moral compass doesn't mean you are closest to them if it did then Dick would have Bruce as his compass.
    I agree.

  10. #265
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashback View Post
    I agree with that but I would like to rebuff some of the things you said.



    You have to remember that Tim was a kid when he decided to be Robin, and even then he knew chose to be Robin because he viewed 'it' has quintessential to Batman. I say Batman because you see Tim say things like Gotham city needs a Batman and when Alfred says that Dick and Bruce will be working again, Tim say's "Yeah..but I can't still help but feel that that's not what Batman needs", not Bruce but Batman. Its not like Dick(Nightwing) couldn't be it, more that it had to be "Robin". For whatever reason he viewed Batman with a Robin were essential, perhaps to save Gotham? who knows, he was a kid after all, but as he grows up he realizes that was foolish by saying "...I put it on for the first time when I was a kid. I'm smart enough to know that there might be a better way to help the world." His decision to be Robin was always to help Batman be the best he could be.



    I give you that Tim isn't close to Dick in this continuity but how are Dick and Damian relationship more than siblings? In the old continuity Dick probably viewed Tim and Damian as his brothers. I guess you can make a case on who Dick likes more? (in the old continuity)



    "It doesn't matter what yo subscribe to what matter is canon." Again, Dick being the only light to Batman can be argued. You can pick which ever Robin you prefer and make a case that they were a light to Batman.



    I agree.
    There is no proof that batman needs Robin. Some kid thinking that and thinking that it had to be him personally is just a kid who wants in on the team he has been fanboying over. Wanting to keep what he liked alive and inserting himself in there.


    Dick is to Damian what Bruce is to Dick. A surrogate dad.

    Dick is the only Robin shown in canon to be a light. The stories back it up. Batman got lighter with Dick. Batman stories got darker with Tim Batman was given someone to care for for the 1st time with Dick.
    Robin isn't Batman's light. He never was an in current canon with Tim's flip I question if that is a thing.

    It's a nice soundbite but sadly the stories and the way Batman is shown to act contradict the whole light thing

  11. #266
    Astonishing Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    I got thinking and Tim is Batman's light and he was right that he was the only one who could do it atleast out of all Robins.

    When Jason died Batman lost it.
    When Dick died Batman lost and nearly crossed the line
    When Damian was killed Batman lost it and crossed/nearly crossed the line
    When dick was shot Batman crossed the line
    When Tim died Batman mourned but kept a level head.

    Its an angle I never considered but Batman did not break and fall into darkness like he did with the other Robins. Tim might be the key to Batman coming back to his senses in Rebirth. The one to appeal to the rational part of Batman. Bruce is isolated from all his sons and Alfred is hurt [whatever] the only one left is Tim.

  12. #267
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    I got thinking and Tim is Batman's light and he was right that he was the only one who could do it atleast out of all Robins.

    When Jason died Batman lost it.
    When Dick died Batman lost and nearly crossed the line
    When Damian was killed Batman lost it and crossed/nearly crossed the line
    When dick was shot Batman crossed the line
    When Tim died Batman mourned but kept a level head.

    Its an angle I never considered but Batman did not break and fall into darkness like he did with the other Robins. Tim might be the key to Batman coming back to his senses in Rebirth. The one to appeal to the rational part of Batman. Bruce is isolated from all his sons and Alfred is hurt [whatever] the only one left is Tim.
    When did Dick die? He's been presumed dead a couple times, Forever Evil and Infinite Crisis. But he's only ever died died in Elseworlds.
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  13. #268
    Astonishing Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    When did Dick die? He's been presumed dead a couple times, Forever Evil and Infinite Crisis. But he's only ever died died in Elseworlds.
    Forever Evil he died for a few mintues.

  14. #269
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    Dick is the reason Tim became obsessed with batman. he Had no other motives and Dick had to push him into the role. "Batman needs Robin" is only true when Dick was ever the one Bruce needed. Later comic Bruce didn't need Robin and Dick was a shitty "soldier" so Tim's argument become naught and DC has to find some reasons for him to be Robin despite it being a painful job. No one ever sat Tim down and ask "why are you doing this" because no one even knows anymore, just as Tim's starting point, he can't pick one between "normal kid who wanted to help and was a quick thinker" and "genius who knew it all along". In a way, Dick is the reason for Tim's biggest 3 existential break downs : when the Graysons died, when he gave Tim Robin and when he took it from him.

    As for Tim being close to Dick, i feel like as of Pre-Flashpoint Damian is closer to Dick as in, a kid. But Tim is someone he can treat as more an equal and talk about guys and girl problems and HIS problems to. He gushed over Tim back then and in fact was so much a fan he forgot Tim was a normal kid sometimes. He didn't "get" Damian outside of Damian needing to be Robin under him and didn't cuddle him as much as now (when his relationship with Tim practically disappeared)
    Last edited by nhienphan2808; 12-07-2018 at 03:33 AM.

  15. #270
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    I got thinking and Tim is Batman's light and he was right that he was the only one who could do it atleast out of all Robins.

    When Jason died Batman lost it.
    When Dick died Batman lost and nearly crossed the line
    When Damian was killed Batman lost it and crossed/nearly crossed the line
    When dick was shot Batman crossed the line
    When Tim died Batman mourned but kept a level head.

    Its an angle I never considered but Batman did not break and fall into darkness like he did with the other Robins. Tim might be the key to Batman coming back to his senses in Rebirth. The one to appeal to the rational part of Batman. Bruce is isolated from all his sons and Alfred is hurt [whatever] the only one left is Tim.
    Or maybe he doesn’t really care as much about Tim

    Though seriously doesn’t that argue against Tim bing his “light”.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 12-07-2018 at 04:14 AM.

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