Personalities/Traits of the Robins

[nhienphan2808]

Yeah. I notice that too.

I really like Tim, but he seems to predict the future more than detective work.

Yeah, Tim's core traits that sets him apart is a intuitive and logical based mind and his resilence rather than smarts and detective SKILLS. He is more cerebral than Dick, but that doesnt translate to real skills which takes him years and tons to devepment to gain. When talking about real skills, Dick has more. DC trashed this right now but Dickbats reminded people of that. ("you put that together, Grayson? Best detective indeed" " No, second best again because he came back") The thing is Tim is the best Robin , not because he is the best, but in terms of working with Batman in particular. he gets along with Bruce better and Bruce helps flourish his talents. Bruce and Dick are both usually dumped down since they hold back a lot when they are with each other.

[oasis1313]

This is actually kind of true now that I think on it. Maybe Tim is a low key metahuman.

Tim is actually The Messiah. He is a perfect godlike being before whom even Superman should bow down at the knee. Just ask Didio, Tynion, and Bendis. A far cry from the mere human he was when he was first introduced by Wolfman and Perez. And THAT is my main beef with Tim: I liked him when he first came onto the scene. Now he's got a "supercomputer for a brain." He's probably a meta, too--just wait till Bendis starts leading the worship party.

[yohyoi]

Tim is actually The Messiah. He is a perfect godlike being before whom even Superman should bow down at the knee. Just ask Didio, Tynion, and Bendis. A far cry from the mere human he was when he was first introduced by Wolfman and Perez. And THAT is my main beef with Tim: I liked him when he first came onto the scene. Now he's got a "supercomputer for a brain." He's probably a meta, too--just wait till Bendis starts leading the worship party.

If you hear Tim worshipers, it's like he is the second coming of Batman. That's him basically; Batman but smarter, nicer and better. Really???

[Zaresh]

Picking on a fictional character who cannot defend itself it's no cool, guys. Not for its fans, at least.

[Pohzee]

Picking on a fictional character who cannot defend itself it's no cool, guys. Not for its fans, at least.

Except characters aren't actually people so it doesn't matter what you say about them.

They're not real. They don't have feelings. And I don't know why it should matter to fans what another person thinks about a fictional character.

[Zaresh]

Except characters aren't actually people so it doesn't matter what you say about them.

They're not real. They don't have feelings. And I don't know why it should matter to fans what another person thinks about a fictional character.

I know they are not real, but being innencesary mean to a certain character will annoy or even hurt its fans.

I don't see why one needs to be so harsh towards a fictional character, or at least, so harsh without a reasonable reason at the moment. Everyone has his faves and hates, but you don't see them attacking their hated ones constantly. At this point it almost looks like bullying a character and by extension their fans.

Mmm, I don't know if I made my point across, but see, I would feel a bit hurt if Jason were to be the constant bullseye of certain users. I would feel even unmotivated to post and discuss in the forum because the hostility towards something I like so much. Does that make any sense for you? It's what I mean. It doesn't help to create and build a healthy community that engages into discussing stuff under civil means.

You may not care, but some people, not a small amount, will.

[thebluefeline]

Dick : MBTI ESFJ Though somehow everyone will type him a P, including Devin Grayson so avoid. He's the most extroverted of the bats, but he is no way an 2d happy go lucky idiot. The peacemaker and jokester of the fam, and a badass bossy *******-ish leader of the non Bat team. Resembles Bruce the most in putting the mission first. Doesn't get along with Bruce most of the time, and doesn't cuddle his brothers, even Damian, as much as new comics like to tell you. He tries and his heart is in the right places, but usually he doesn't understand people he cares for and let his temper get the best of him, thus mistakes happens and he thrives on guilt ever since Jason dies. The OG for workaholic and angry "**** Batman" tendencies. First and foremost he's an actor so his characterisation ranges from nicer than he looks and meaner than he looks. He was more nuanced in the 70s to 90s and as Batman. Post 2000s is where there is a shift that makes him look incompetent and a bimbo jock in favor of Bruce and other Robins. This characterisation sticks today which is a bad thing.

Jason : MBTI ISFP. The actual happy-go-lucky, go-with-the-flow, NICE Robin when he was alive, considering his circumtances. Is the one Bruce really WANTS to adopt as a son. A nerd, loves books and academics and studying and talks like he's Jane Austen kin.. Is a master stategist. A bad Robin in a wider scheme that's Bruce's bad decisions, but not a bad fighter or a bad person that disobeys nor impulsive. Is not the angry Robin, because he owns his values and his choices and genuinely thinks Bruce's method is trash. Vey emotionally and socially aware. Avoid anything Morrison when reading and writing him. I'd avoid Lobdell too because it takes a LOT more than that to change his strict moral code and meddle with Bruce or Dick's hand-me-downs. Speaking of Dick, he and Jason doesnt have much of a relationship.

Tim : MBTI INTP but one half of the fandom inclding Tynion will tell you he's INTJ "because he's ahead of everyone else and plans long term and always wanted to be the best" without realising they are describing Barbara and early Dick, the other half characterise him as a complete book nerd and coffee addict that doesn't know how to talk to people, while he's actually the most diversely trained by the bests in the DCU both as a detective and staff fighter, and is KINDA a white rich fuckboy in the 90s due to DC thinking it was no problems. A nice, clever and hardworking kid but has little emotional and social awareness. The everyman that tries and learns just because he cares instead of the best anything. Not into academics nor corporate business. The most "normal" of the Robins, untl Dc killed every one of his loved ones. Gets along with Bruce better than Dick and arguably closer to Dick than Damian to Dick as a brother. He became "the best Robin, the best detective" around the time Dick and Jason gets shafted so who is better as a fighter and a detective is kinda subjective.

Damian : MBTI INFP but some writers totally screw this up and make him a mini-Bruce (INTJ). Avoid everything rebirth tbh. Very idealistic and loyal to his cause and stopped caring about blood and being "true son" like 15 issues after his first appearences . He is all about serving the Batman (s) he deems worthy and he believes in that the prideful emotional way Jason believes in his values. Loves kids and pets, has good friends. Being an assassin doesnt make him a good fighter. Actually has a LOT to learn from his brothers, and he is humbly willing after some development, unlike in Rebirth comics.

Yay a fellow MBTI enthusiast

I agree with your analysis for Tim and Jason but for Dick I think he's an ENFJ. He has the traits of the NF temperament more than the SJ one. And Damian was definitely written by Morrison to be an INTJ and it's carried on into Supersons and Teen Titans. Sorry but no way he's an INFP. He has no traits of the NF temperament nor does he exhibit Fi-dom or Ne-dom characteristics. INTJs instead have Ni, Te as their dominant functions but do have Fi as their tertiary which makes them come off as insecure and idealistic in a very quiet way. They'll almost never tell you what they're feeling unless you're someone super close to them. Most of the time they don't even like to recognize what they're feeling, instead pushing it off and distracting themselves with other more efficient and effective things. In contrast, I think Jonathan Kent might be an INFP but he's too young for me to tell for sure but he's definitely an NF (like Superman). There's not really a whole lot of NF characters in the Batman universe. The only ones I can think of are Dick (ENFJ) Alfred (INFJ), Mr. Freeze (INFP) and the Ventriloquist (INFP)


Bruce is a big one I see mistyped too much. A lot of people think he fits into the INTJ catagory because he literally nails all the sterotypes of one. He's actually an ISTJ. Si-dom is very detail oriented, over planning things, great memory, "by the book" function. Will never try to assume to know the big picture before having sufficent evidence. Te as their second function allows them to rely on facts and proven methods. Tertiary Fi where they make their moral 'laws'. Inferior Ne for ISTJs is a funny one. They will use it in times of stress and make veryyy reaching statements about how they perceive things to be. The slippery-slope argument he uses when people ask him why he doesn't kill is literally all derived from this function. He will become a morally bad person (Fi black and white thinking) if he breaks his rule (Si)

The Si-Fi loop in ISTJs is literally why the story of Batman was made in the first place. The sensory and memory details of the night his parents were killed is what sends him down spiraling to stop other people from feeling the way he did that night. He's very stuck in that memory because he remembers the feelings of it too vividly. He takes in other kids who lost their parents because he projects that feeling he has onto them and understands how they feel. An INTJ in this situation would honestly just mourn and move on. Because they are big picture oriented (Ni-doms), they understand that death is a nature part of life. Yes parents are important and they might want revenge but ultimately, it wouldn't drive them to try to make a change in the city because of one night. Their driving force would be trying to change the corruption of the city into something positive with reliance on remembering the pain of what they went through. Damian almost never uses his time when he was with the League of Assasins as a motivater for his crimefighting ways, barely even references it most of the time but he still ends up with the same goal that his father had.

The big thing between ISTJs and INTJs is that one of them will stick to proven methods and rules extremely firmly (almost to the point that it's like talking to a brick wall that you're asking to move) often times without any logical ties to the rules because their decision making system comes from Si-Fi, while the other will take an idea and tweak it constantly until they come up with an absolute truth. Batman's no killing rule comes from his Si-Fi loop. Whereas someone like Jason who has Fi-Se makes his moral judgments (dominant Fi) based on his own experiences (Se). Bruce has never experience being murdered so he could never understand why Jason kills. Damian has never had a rule that he has made up. Instead he follows what Bruce says because he still wants his approval (tertiary Fi) but if left to his own devices he'd kill on a case-by-case basis. Irredeemables like the Joker would just be killed off in order to stop the corruption of the city.

Sorry this is very long >< I really enjoy discussing MBTI though and have been using it to type people for 6 years now. It's a very useful tool for social communication and really fun

[Mataza]

Tim’s more of a clairvoyant then a detective if you ask me.

He has very strong instincs, natural talent to spot things that dont fit.

I remember at some point in his own solo, him and Alfred talking about how "strong instincts" in detective stories mean lazy writing. But eh, i get hunches all the time where i work, and most of the pay off.

[Fergus]

In my opinion:

Dick - Cocky jock who likes showing off, he was an acrobat and in the circus, being social

Jason - Sensitive and anger issues,

Tim - Bookworm who likes helping people

Damien - Snob who enjoys hurting people he sees as weak.

Carrie - The girl, and adventurous

This too outrageous and untrue that I'm going to take this as you being sarcastic. He rescues animals, get's emotionally and visibly affected in the cases that involve young kids to the point he always loses it, goes to war because a bunch of migrants and homeless folks he hangs with get destroyed, literally goes out everyday to protect people he sees as weak and below him.

It's okay to leave blank the characters you aren't familiar with rather than making funnies.

[dietrich]

Agree, i am also a circus acrobat with an amazing ass that gets in the pants of every woman that he ever mets, that is known, admired and/or beloved by every person i have ever met, that was raised by a brooding playboy that beats hobos on his spare time after my parents died in a circus.
Dick is the picture of relatability because of how normal his life has been since he was born.


Anyway, on to the actual thread:

As someone who is dragged to a visiting circus every summer half term I can tell you that while the performance varies those trapeze boys always, ALWAYS have nice butts and are generally very easy on the eye. So good looking acrobats with nice arses who get women throwing themselves at them are very common.

What I've never come across is a 16 year old who builds self repairing buildings, is so smart he can figure out stuff that an entire city hasn't been able to figure, posses the ability to know that people resumed dead really aren't because reasons, who chooses and somehow manages to sneak out every night to fight crime without his parents knowledge and yet isn't smart enough to know that hanging at night with a grown arse man who dresses as a bat to kick crime one criminal at a time is not only an inefficient method of stopping crime but also a pretty suspect. Who also happens to be a nerd that gets girls and a stalker whose victims are totally fine with accepting their lives. I have never come across anyone like that. No once. Not even at the circus. But then I don't know every man out there.

[nhienphan2808]

Yay a fellow MBTI enthusiast

I agree with your analysis for Tim and Jason but for Dick I think he's an ENFJ. He has the traits of the NF temperament more than the SJ one. And Damian was definitely written by Morrison to be an INTJ and it's carried on into Supersons and Teen Titans. Sorry but no way he's an INFP. He has no traits of the NF temperament nor does he exhibit Fi-dom or Ne-dom characteristics. INTJs instead have Ni, Te as their dominant functions but do have Fi as their tertiary which makes them come off as insecure and idealistic in a very quiet way. They'll almost never tell you what they're feeling unless you're someone super close to them. Most of the time they don't even like to recognize what they're feeling, instead pushing it off and distracting themselves with other more efficient and effective things. In contrast, I think Jonathan Kent might be an INFP but he's too young for me to tell for sure but he's definitely an NF (like Superman). There's not really a whole lot of NF characters in the Batman universe. The only ones I can think of are Dick (ENFJ) Alfred (INFJ), Mr. Freeze (INFP) and the Ventriloquist (INFP)


Bruce is a big one I see mistyped too much. A lot of people think he fits into the INTJ catagory because he literally nails all the sterotypes of one. He's actually an ISTJ. Si-dom is very detail oriented, over planning things, great memory, "by the book" function. Will never try to assume to know the big picture before having sufficent evidence. Te as their second function allows them to rely on facts and proven methods. Tertiary Fi where they make their moral 'laws'. Inferior Ne for ISTJs is a funny one. They will use it in times of stress and make veryyy reaching statements about how they perceive things to be. The slippery-slope argument he uses when people ask him why he doesn't kill is literally all derived from this function. He will become a morally bad person (Fi black and white thinking) if he breaks his rule (Si)

The Si-Fi loop in ISTJs is literally why the story of Batman was made in the first place. The sensory and memory details of the night his parents were killed is what sends him down spiraling to stop other people from feeling the way he did that night. He's very stuck in that memory because he remembers the feelings of it too vividly. He takes in other kids who lost their parents because he projects that feeling he has onto them and understands how they feel. An INTJ in this situation would honestly just mourn and move on. Because they are big picture oriented (Ni-doms), they understand that death is a nature part of life. Yes parents are important and they might want revenge but ultimately, it wouldn't drive them to try to make a change in the city because of one night. Their driving force would be trying to change the corruption of the city into something positive with reliance on remembering the pain of what they went through. Damian almost never uses his time when he was with the League of Assasins as a motivater for his crimefighting ways, barely even references it most of the time but he still ends up with the same goal that his father had.

The big thing between ISTJs and INTJs is that one of them will stick to proven methods and rules extremely firmly (almost to the point that it's like talking to a brick wall that you're asking to move) often times without any logical ties to the rules because their decision making system comes from Si-Fi, while the other will take an idea and tweak it constantly until they come up with an absolute truth. Batman's no killing rule comes from his Si-Fi loop. Whereas someone like Jason who has Fi-Se makes his moral judgments (dominant Fi) based on his own experiences (Se). Bruce has never experience being murdered so he could never understand why Jason kills. Damian has never had a rule that he has made up. Instead he follows what Bruce says because he still wants his approval (tertiary Fi) but if left to his own devices he'd kill on a case-by-case basis. Irredeemables like the Joker would just be killed off in order to stop the corruption of the city.

Sorry this is very long >< I really enjoy discussing MBTI though and have been using it to type people for 6 years now. It's a very useful tool for social communication and really fun

I see you havent read early Bruce and Dick and you have some good MBTI knowledge but you don't really have a "feeling" for different types. ENFJ and ISTJ is when their characters has already taken shift, and that shift is ooc and ugly tbh. I know they have been written as mamy things, but i believe our type decides your development through life, and with Bruce and Dick in particular they developed in a process through 70 years without heavy changes so i would always take their Golden/Silver Age types as canon.

Devin Grayson wrote Dick as a Fe-looping ESTP and he seems "idealistic" so everyone types him NF. 40s to 2000 Dick was all about "doing" and "doing something again". He is very traditional and down to earth both in love life and the way he thinks everything. He was softened a whole lot when the 2000s came with weird origin retcons that makes him love Bruce and girls the desperate way ENFJs do. (Fe-Ni) With Early Dick, the reason he keep "idealing" is because he HAS gone through enough bullshit and made mistakes. and he channels those in keeping the fight and forgiving and doing VERY practical things for family. All the while he imitates but still struggles to understand Bruce's way of theorising. (Si) To contrast, Clark is ENFJ. He says "Why you no love me?" . Dick says "Why you no care about your family and no remember our past as Batman and Robin?") He lives "by the book" and his book is Bruce

Bruce has never lived "by the book. prepared for everything" until Morrison and some others wrote him as Batgod and thrown in his "multi universal" past and future stuff. For 60 years , Bruce was THE rule breaker of the INTJ rule breakers, always up to a challenge and will deal with any suprises, and his idealistic ideas are very self-made. He talks and believes more than he "prepares". Also INTJ uses Si too, when they are depressed, traumalised and anxious, since it's our 8th function called demonic. Bar Morrison, the 2000s is when they turns up Bruce's disorder and depression so that's where he used more Si. All in all, "playboy" Bruce was his Se. I'm INTJ and I am not a fan of changes - I mean I WANT changes and Bruce too, but in some cases , like your City being Gotham and being Batman, you can't afford that (you would see some comics show that BECAUSE Bruce was stuck doing the same thing forever that he had depression - and new stuff either, and i can relate to the way Bruce cope (by not coping at all) You would see Golden Age to Bronse Age Bruce chilling while Dick worries back and forth. The Joker gets to Bruce because INTJ and ENTP "matches" better than others, Tim clicks with Bruce because he's also an NT.

[dietrich]

Tim’s more of a clairvoyant then a detective if you ask me.

That could actually be a fresh new direction for the struggling Robin.
Madam Tim he can tell when dead people are actually alive based on absolutely nothing for months and months until some writer finally draws on a wall or writes in a painting that wasn't there before or some bit of info that wasn't ever there and Tim had no way of ever knowing.

Get him a crystal ball, a table, some cards, beads and a tent boosh fun new character with a niche that's all his own.

[oasis1313]

If you hear Tim worshipers, it's like he is the second coming of Batman. That's him basically; Batman but smarter, nicer and better. Really???

Nobody is picking on Tim Drake. It is impossible--a few mere unpaid fans can air their grievances on a piddly little fan-forum (and many of us do in the HOPE that it will somehow, someday translate into actually helping the character), but nobody who MATTERS actually cares one shake of a dead rat's tail WHAT they think. DC certainly doesn't, and that's really ALL that counts. Tim fans are lucky; their fav is guaranteed utterly safe forever and they will never have to be concerned about him as Dick, Jason, and Damian fans must constantly worry. We peasants/losers/pack of unwanteds, etc etc would LOVE to be in the shoes of Tim fans!!!!!!

That's my whole gripe against the character. I actually welcomed Tim when he first appeared (even though he was a creepy stalker, he meant well), but DC has just TRIED TOO HARD. The mandate was that since Jason was considered a failed character twice, the new Robin would be the opposite--there would be no more going back to drawing board--NOT EVER. This is a reason for Bruce complimenting him and genuflecting to him at every turn--hey, if The Batman thinks Tim is the greatest human being who ever did or ever will walk the Earth--shouldn't the readers think so, too? THIS is the subliminal message that has been inculcated into Tim Worshipers, most of them younger fans who never had the opportunity to get to know Dick or Jason, and many of them were so brainwashed they never gave Damian a chance. I gave Tim that chance and I spent years really WANTING to like him as I did Dick and Jason--while DC gifted him with Bolland artwork, Bowen statues, enough promo to sink an oil barge--then came other tithes: Suddenly his intelligence increases by 2000 IQ points; now he's smarter than Reed Richards and Tony Stark put together; he's still in high school and cloning meta-humans, building self-repairing structures, solving every crime imaginable when Batman and Sherlock Holmes would both be clueless, suddenly he's an "Olympic Level Athlete" without doing any of the training. His brain is actually a "supercomputer." Only he is worthy to be the "heir" of Ra's al Ghul--as well as the Batman himself. It reminds me of the old Greek myth about how Zeus took a knock to the head and behold the goddess Athena sprang forth from his forehead--perfect in beauty, strength, and wisdom. Not only is Tim the smartest nerd who ever existed--he's a hot nerd, too, and has no social problems, like girls, acne, etc etc etc. Batman should be TIM'S sidekick, and learn from The Master. If DC would bring back Vintage Tim, who was likeable and relatable, I would welcome that change and embrace the character--who wasn't PERFECT but at least tried to do his best. However, it's become a situation like Donna Troy: ''"Oh look, another gift from the gods--now I have salad-plate chilling powers."

So Tim fans can afford to be a little generous to the Dick/Jason/Damian fans. They have been feasted--and can soon look forward to yet another royal feast--while Dick/Jason/Damian fans crawl for crumbs they know they're not going to get.

[KrustyKid]

I see you havent read early Bruce and Dick and you have some good MBTI knowledge but you don't really have a "feeling" for different types. ENFJ and ISTJ is when their characters has already taken shift, and that shift is ooc and ugly tbh. I know they have been written as mamy things, but i believe our type decides your development through life, and with Bruce and Dick in particular they developed in a process through 70 years without heavy changes so i would always take their Golden/Silver Age types as canon.

Devin Grayson wrote Dick as a Fe-looping ESTP and he seems "idealistic" so everyone types him NF. 40s to 2000 Dick was all about "doing" and "doing something again". He is very traditional and down to earth both in love life and the way he thinks everything. He was softened a whole lot when the 2000s came with weird origin retcons that makes him love Bruce and girls the desperate way ENFJs do. (Fe-Ni) With Early Dick, the reason he keep "idealing" is because he HAS gone through enough bullshit and made mistakes. and he channels those in keeping the fight and forgiving and doing VERY practical things for family. All the while he imitates but still struggles to understand Bruce's way of theorising. (Si) To contrast, Clark is ENFJ. He says "Why you no love me?" . Dick says "Why you no care about your family and no remember our past as Batman and Robin?") He lives "by the book" and his book is Bruce

Bruce has never lived "by the book. prepared for everything" until Morrison and some others wrote him as Batgod and thrown in his "multi universal" past and future stuff. For 60 years , Bruce was THE rule breaker of the INTJ rule breakers, always up to a challenge and will deal with any suprises, and his idealistic ideas are very self-made. He talks and believes more than he "prepares". Also INTJ uses Si too, when they are depressed, traumalised and anxious, since it's our 8th function called demonic. Bar Morrison, the 2000s is when they turns up Bruce's disorder and depression so that's where he used more Si. All in all, "playboy" Bruce was his Se. I'm INTJ and I am not a fan of changes - I mean I WANT changes and Bruce too, but in some cases , like your City being Gotham and being Batman, you can't afford that (you would see some comics show that BECAUSE Bruce was stuck doing the same thing forever that he had depression - and new stuff either, and i can relate to the way Bruce cope (by not coping at all) You would see Golden Age to Bronse Age Bruce chilling while Dick worries back and forth. The Joker gets to Bruce because INTJ and ENTP "matches" better than others, Tim clicks with Bruce because he's also an NT.

I actually find myself agreeing with most of this. Nice post

[KrustyKid]

Nobody is picking on Tim Drake. It is impossible--a few mere unpaid fans can air their grievances on a piddly little fan-forum (and many of us do in the HOPE that it will somehow, someday translate into actually helping the character), but nobody who MATTERS actually cares one shake of a dead rat's tail WHAT they think. DC certainly doesn't, and that's really ALL that counts. Tim fans are lucky; their fav is guaranteed utterly safe forever and they will never have to be concerned about him as Dick, Jason, and Damian fans must constantly worry. We peasants/losers/pack of unwanteds, etc etc would LOVE to be in the shoes of Tim fans!!!!!!

That's my whole gripe against the character. I actually welcomed Tim when he first appeared (even though he was a creepy stalker, he meant well), but DC has just TRIED TOO HARD. The mandate was that since Jason was considered a failed character twice, the new Robin would be the opposite--there would be no more going back to drawing board--NOT EVER. This is a reason for Bruce complimenting him and genuflecting to him at every turn--hey, if The Batman thinks Tim is the greatest human being who ever did or ever will walk the Earth--shouldn't the readers think so, too? THIS is the subliminal message that has been inculcated into Tim Worshipers, most of them younger fans who never had the opportunity to get to know Dick or Jason, and many of them were so brainwashed they never gave Damian a chance. I gave Tim that chance and I spent years really WANTING to like him as I did Dick and Jason--while DC gifted him with Bolland artwork, Bowen statues, enough promo to sink an oil barge--then came other tithes: Suddenly his intelligence increases by 2000 IQ points; now he's smarter than Reed Richards and Tony Stark put together; he's still in high school and cloning meta-humans, building self-repairing structures, solving every crime imaginable when Batman and Sherlock Holmes would both be clueless, suddenly he's an "Olympic Level Athlete" without doing any of the training. His brain is actually a "supercomputer." Only he is worthy to be the "heir" of Ra's al Ghul--as well as the Batman himself. It reminds me of the old Greek myth about how Zeus took a knock to the head and behold the goddess Athena sprang forth from his forehead--perfect in beauty, strength, and wisdom. Not only is Tim the smartest nerd who ever existed--he's a hot nerd, too, and has no social problems, like girls, acne, etc etc etc. Batman should be TIM'S sidekick, and learn from The Master. If DC would bring back Vintage Tim, who was likeable and relatable, I would welcome that change and embrace the character--who wasn't PERFECT but at least tried to do his best. However, it's become a situation like Donna Troy: ''"Oh look, another gift from the gods--now I have salad-plate chilling powers."

So Tim fans can afford to be a little generous to the Dick/Jason/Damian fans. They have been feasted--and can soon look forward to yet another royal feast--while Dick/Jason/Damian fans crawl for crumbs they know they're not going to get.

I know you're far from being a Tim fan, but a lot of what you said is just not true about the character. For example Tim being a Olympic level gymnast, let's just say that really rings blank. It never really showed up in stories, physically he was still inferior to Bruce and all of the other Robin's, as well as the Batgirl's. This is backed by the fact when everyone is shown together, Tim is clearly the least physically gifted(with everything considered).

You noted Tim was 'shown' to be a greater detective than anyone else in the Bat Fam. Really? Also untrue. I can't name one story where Tim was shown to be a greater detective than Bruce, because as far as I know I have yet to read one. Tim in the past was only stated to have great potential to become a great detective, it has never been stated or shown that he is the best, just a competent one. To top that off, Tim is not greater than Bruce overall like you seem to describe in your rundown, he's actually inferior to him in pretty much every category, computers perhaps being the only exception.

Your closing statement also makes no sense. Dick, Jason, and Damian have all done well as or even better than Tim while in the spot light. In fact I'd say Tim falls in last place in that regard if we consider outside media as well.

I think your letting what some Tim fanboys have said cloud what really is on paper. Concerning the Bat Family when it comes to skill, Tim easily would be mid tier, and this is coming from a big Tim fan. If you consider the skills of everyone in the bat crew and how each of them would handle flying solo(current versions) with their given skill sets I see it lining up something like this;

1. Top shelf
-Batman

2. High tier
-Nightwing
-Batgirl, Robin, Red Hood

3. Mid tier
-Batwoman, Huntress
-Batwing, Red Robin, Cass Cain
-Spoiler, Catwoman

4. Low Tier
-The Signal(Duke)
-Bluebird
-Bat-Cow