Was One More Day Pointless?

[Bor]

Everything about the Unmasking period was expertly handled, it reenergized the franchise after the stench of Sins Past, Sins Remembered, and The Other, which makes it all the more frustrating this status quo was abandoned. It also led directly into the only Spider-Man story nominated for an Eisner and the magnum opus of Spider-Marriage stories "To Have and to Hold", which told you pretty much there and then an in-character Peter and MJ would never part ways.

Where did you get the “only Spider-man story nominated for an Eisner” from? Thats not right at all.

[Mister Mets]

Where did you get the “only Spider-man story nominated for an Eisner” from? Thats not right at all.

Yeah. "Coming Home" won for Best Serialized Story in 2001.

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_..._Award_winners

As far as I can tell, "To Have and to Hold" didn't win anything. It was nominated for best single issue story, but lost to a Justice League issue.

https://www.cbr.com/2008-eisner-nominations-announced/

"Stan Lee Meets Spider-Man" was also nominated for best short story in 2007.

http://www.hahnlibrary.net/comics/awards/eisner07.php

The Miles Morales Ultimate Spider-Man was nominated for best continuing series.

https://www.cbr.com/nominees-announc...eisner-awards/

Superior Foes has been nominated for best humor publication.

http://comicsalliance.com/2015-eisne...d-nominations/

[Miles To Go]

My mistake.

[Tuck]

You are right that no one needs to see it from another angle, but then there really is nothing to your opinion. If your view is: “ That which you enjoy is worthless and I am not even willing to discuss it” then your statement is not worth of discussion. You can be of the opinion that OMD was worthless and everything that came from it was too, but then there really is nothing worth discussion.

We're talking about a group of people, in this case, who had something taken away from them and told it was necessary for the book to continue to tell good stories. They're going to be extra bitter when they don't personally see the book as improved, or even as good as it was to them previously. So, now it's a situation where asking them to understand why someone likes the new status quo is asking them to understand the readers for whom their beloved thing was taken away.

[Bor]

We're talking about a group of people, in this case, who had something taken away from them and told it was necessary for the book to continue to tell good stories. They're going to be extra bitter when they don't personally see the book as improved, or even as good as it was to them previously. So, now it's a situation where asking them to understand why someone likes the new status quo is asking them to understand the readers for whom their beloved thing was taken away.

I am sorry but no its simply not the same. Its not like someone has said that what they liked was worthless or anything like that. Not even Marvel said “All stories where MJ and Peter where married were worthless and thats the final say”. So no you can make all the excuses you want but if your viewpoint is “All those stories you like are worthless” then there is no reason to actually discuss anything.

[Tuck]

I am sorry but no its simply not the same. Its not like someone has said that what they liked was worthless or anything like that. Not even Marvel said “All stories where MJ and Peter where married were worthless and thats the final say”. So no you can make all the excuses you want but if your viewpoint is “All those stories you like are worthless” then there is no reason to actually discuss anything.

I think you're talking about one particular poster on here.

Although, in fairness, Marvel (and other comic companies) can't cultivate a deep interest in continuity, making plenty of money on stories that exist entirely for timeline housekeeping, and then act like they're not the Dr. Frankenstein that created the monster who's annoying them now when they want to gloss over the continuity implications of their timeline fix.

[Bor]

I think you're talking about one particular poster on here.

Although, in fairness, Marvel (and other comic companies) can't cultivate a deep interest in continuity, making plenty of money on stories that exist entirely for timeline housekeeping, and then act like they're not the Dr. Frankenstein that created the monster who's annoying them now when they want to gloss over the continuity implications of their timeline fix.

No I am talking about a group of posters here and espescially on one other board.

[Miles To Go]

No I am talking about a group of posters here and espescially on one other board.

That "other board" has been generally favourable of Spencer's direction so far, and the marriage hasn't yet been restored.

Perhaps to them the Spider-Man stories matter more if Peter and MJ endure them together.

That "other board" also gave several books of the BND to Big Time to Superior phases high marks despite a few grumbles on their podcast, so there is no bias. You are being selective.

[WebLurker]

It's all rather moot now..considering MJ's faith in their love proved well founded ten years later. Not to mention there were plenty of alternatives for fans in the last few years (and for the small percentage that follow the daily strip, the ride essentially never ended to begin with)

I don't know; it's still not what the creators consider the core source material that defines what the franchise is.

“ I THINK THIS AND I AM NOT EVEN WILLING To ACCEPT ANYTHING OTHER AS WORTH ANYTHING”. Just because you like one thing more then the other does not mean you have to be blind to what is actually worth it in that other things. The idea that there is no room for compromise is ridicules and the reason why nothing will change. Overall I dont like the storyline Ultimatum from the ultimate universe. I was a train wreck that ended up killing a lot of interesting character and ideas and honestly the stories were never as great again in my opinion. However, I can still see some of the stories that came afterwords as having something to them. There are still some good stories there which could have not have happened if Ultimatum had not happened. Just not as many.

My point was in discussions like this, there's the objective logical reasons stuff like this happens and there's the subjective opinion people have on that. The two get mixed up really easily; heck, I think that all the OMD discussions and arguments ultimately go back to "Do I like this, hate this, am indifferent to this, etc?" Hence why the fanbase has been a loggerheads for the pst decade.

And seeing the purpose of reading fiction is ultimately for the personal enjoyment of the individual, mileage will vary on what is worthless and whether good stuff down the line is worth the stuff you dislike.

[Miles To Go]

I don't know; it's still not what the creators consider the core source material that defines what the franchise is.

They obviously still regard it as a key component in maintaining an ageing readership.

[Bor]

I don't know; it's still not what the creators consider the core source material that defines what the franchise is.



My point was in discussions like this, there's the objective logical reasons stuff like this happens and there's the subjective opinion people have on that. The two get mixed up really easily; heck, I think that all the OMD discussions and arguments ultimately go back to "Do I like this, hate this, am indifferent to this, etc?" Hence why the fanbase has been a loggerheads for the pst decade.

And seeing the purpose of reading fiction is ultimately for the personal enjoyment of the individual, mileage will vary on what is worthless and whether good stuff down the line is worth the stuff you dislike.

Well the purpose of reading fiction does not have to be that. It can be for other reasons depending on who you ask or which school of literary scholars you ask.

But that is besides the point when my point was about discussions. When going into a discussion with the mindset of a black/white view and and an complete unwillingness to even contemplate the idea that there are shades of grey then discussion is worthless.

[Bor]

That "other board" has been generally favourable of Spencer's direction so far, and the marriage hasn't yet been restored.

Perhaps to them the Spider-Man stories matter more if Peter and MJ endure them together.

That "other board" also gave several books of the BND to Big Time to Superior phases high marks despite a few grumbles on their podcast, so there is no bias. You are being selective.

That other board is full of examples of the exact attitude I have argued against here. If you dont see that then you are being selective. If you actually are trying to say that there are not plenty of examples of that type of poster there then you are fooling yourself. I never said the board had no BND or Big time supporters. But just like the Eisner example you seem to want to present false statements as being true.

[theoneandonly]

I wonder how the superior storyline would have played out with the marriage still existing. Theoretically a writer could made the story work through any number of plot devices without creating a sense of disbelief like Otto hypnotizing himself to believe he is peter Parker along with having a enchephalo map of all the memories of peter enabling him to deceive even those who knew peter intimately. another possibility could be that he could manipulate others memories while they were sleeping so that no doubts would likely arise about him. there was also the choice to have ottos persona asserting itself over peters persona gradually till peter was essentially Otto but his memories and persona lie dormant within and the resolution could have been for Ottos backup to be restored to his cloned or any other body realising what's happening to Peter and working with the avengers to undo the transformation. this could have been a more acceptable plot device for the marriage to be undone than a deal with devil as no one would like to stay in marriage where the spouse is going to be body swapped with an enemy gaining access to his body or where the mind of the spouse is going to be subverted by another villain for unknown length of time. of course it sounds a sleazy story in the extreme so perhaps it's just as well that the marriage wasn't in play during the storyline but superior didn't need the marriage undone to be told but would certainly have led to separation as a consequence of that storyline most probably although writers could have had peter using a cosmic cube or the gauntlet to wish it was undone when he returned to his body but then of course Otto also could theoretically do the same thing.

[Bor]

I wonder how the superior storyline would have played out with the marriage still existing. Theoretically a writer could made the story work through any number of plot devices without creating a sense of disbelief like Otto hypnotizing himself to believe he is peter Parker along with having a enchephalo map of all the memories of peter enabling him to deceive even those who knew peter intimately. another possibility could be that he could manipulate others memories while they were sleeping so that no doubts would likely arise about him. there was also the choice to have ottos persona asserting itself over peters persona gradually till peter was essentially Otto but his memories and persona lie dormant within and the resolution could have been for Ottos backup to be restored to his cloned or any other body realising what's happening to Peter and working with the avengers to undo the transformation. this could have been a more acceptable plot device for the marriage to be undone than a deal with devil as no one would like to stay in marriage where the spouse is going to be body swapped with an enemy gaining access to his body or where the mind of the spouse is going to be subverted by another villain for unknown length of time. of course it sounds a sleazy story in the extreme so perhaps it's just as well that the marriage wasn't in play during the storyline but superior didn't need the marriage undone to be told but would certainly have led to separation as a consequence of that storyline most probably although writers could have had peter using a cosmic cube or the gauntlet to wish it was undone when he returned to his body but then of course Otto also could theoretically do the same thing.

The only way I can see superior working with the marrige in place would be if MJ was not actually there. Like when she sas kidnapped or duri g JMSs run when they were separated and she was making that dumb superhero movie.

[Somecrazyaussie]

The gist of OMD was that they sacrificed their marriage. Not their love for each other. It was just a matter of time before Peter and MJ got back together (the depowering of most of the world's mutant population was also the brainchild of Joey Q and that has since been relaxed.) OMD suffered because of its execution (I hated it at the time.) But, in hindsight, what we got was miles above what we could have got instead (resurrecting Gwen and returning Peter to college.)