View Poll Results: Would you buy a New 52 Superman book if DC published it?

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  • Yes.

    22 30.99%
  • No.

    31 43.66%
  • Depends on the circumstances (explain in post)

    18 25.35%
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  1. #181
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    A sidebar is that this Superman still can't remember what Earth he is from, and that's one of the things resolved when the event ends.
    I was thinking about that, and I have a theory. Apologies if this has already been talked about somewhere, or if it was even explained in Sideways (which I had to read quickly between homework sessions and I missed an issue just as this whole adventure started).

    Nuperman and Superdad were merged into one being, right? With the majority of New52 tossed aside, including his t-shirt origin story. So what if Sideways Superman is the stuff that got cast off from the merger? That Nuperman, along with all the ties to his world and history, would be a kind of "broken reality fragment" and broken reality fragments sink back into the dark multiverse to be recycled. So that covers (unless I missed something) all the bases for how Nuperman ended up in the dark multiverse, why he doesn't remember large chunks of his past, why he doesn't have the armor and why he's (seemingly?) back to Golden Age-ish power levels.

    But again, I didn't pay a lot of attention when reading it and that lost issue (I swear its in a box around here somewhere) might have already explained some of this.
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  2. #182
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Not a bad idea at all. I don't recall reading a theory much like this yet, but of course that doesn't mean it hasn't been out there, but its kinda new to me. It could be a narrative reason to create an entire Earth, as the recycled elements of the New 52 reforged into its own world, deemed stable, and moved up. Its a lot like my idea on how to incorporate the Dark Multiverse into this, only flipped. My idea had it that this Superman's world had been a stable world trapped since the Forger was killed. This idea would basically be that this Superman and his world was born again from the Forge now that its working again. Frankly I think yours makes more sense with the from a point of view of linear storytelling.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 11-11-2018 at 12:02 PM.
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  3. #183
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I was thinking about that, and I have a theory. Apologies if this has already been talked about somewhere, or if it was even explained in Sideways (which I had to read quickly between homework sessions and I missed an issue just as this whole adventure started).

    Nuperman and Superdad were merged into one being, right? With the majority of New52 tossed aside, including his t-shirt origin story. So what if Sideways Superman is the stuff that got cast off from the merger? That Nuperman, along with all the ties to his world and history, would be a kind of "broken reality fragment" and broken reality fragments sink back into the dark multiverse to be recycled. So that covers (unless I missed something) all the bases for how Nuperman ended up in the dark multiverse, why he doesn't remember large chunks of his past, why he doesn't have the armor and why he's (seemingly?) back to Golden Age-ish power levels.

    But again, I didn't pay a lot of attention when reading it and that lost issue (I swear its in a box around here somewhere) might have already explained some of this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Not a bad idea at all. I don't recall reading a theory much like this yet, but of course that doesn't mean it hasn't been out there, but its kinda new to me. It could be a narrative reason to create an entire Earth, as the recycled elements of the New 52 reforged into its own world, deemed stable, and moved up. Its a lot like my idea on how to incorporate the Dark Multiverse into this, only flipped. My idea had it that this Superman's world had been a stable world trapped since the Forger was killed. This idea would basically be that this Superman and his world was born again from the Forge now that its working again. Frankly I think yours makes more sense with the from a point of view of linear storytelling.
    Those ideas are awesome. Another would be that this Superman has within him something akin to the raw thread through which this fragmented Earth could be (re)spun? Only thing that made me think of it was that it's been said that Superman is one of the core beings in the make-up of the universe (or something like that).
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  4. #184
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Until Multiversity Too comes out and establishes that there are stable worlds out there beyond the 52 worlds of the Orrery, the only real options for Nuperman are either that his Earth is part of the Dark Multiverse or to replace or revise one of the 52 so that he has a home on it. My preference is still to edit him back into the primary Earth's timeline as Superman's early history (he covers both some Golden Age aspects of early Superman like starting in Metropolis before he could fly, being a social crusader, and working at the Daily Star, and some Bronze Age elements like moving on from the Daily Planet to a more modern form of media); but I don't see that happening any time soon. And putting him on another Earth would be the next best thing.

    Personally, I'd replace either Earth-31 or Earth-50: 31 was originally supposed to be Frank Miller's Dark Knight universe until Miller asked that it be pulled, leaving a void that Morrison filled with a Pirate Earth; and Earth-50 was originally the Wildstorm universe until the Flashpoint reboot folded it into the primary Earth, and Morrison replaced it with the Justice Lords alternate timeline from the DCAU.

    Pirates are neat and all; but I don't see them as being vital to the well-being of the Orrery, and could easily see them replaced by a N52-like Earth. Alternately, if the new Wild Storm universe hasn't reclaimed the Earth-50 designation, Is much rather see Nuperman and his Justice League there instead of the Justice Lords, who frankly work a heck of a lot better as an Earth -12 (that is, a Dark Multiverse counterpart to the DCAU). In fact, Earth 50 would be my preference, barring only the possibility of Wild Storm having dibs on it.
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  5. #185
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    Until Multiversity Too comes out and establishes that there are stable worlds out there beyond the 52 worlds of the Orrery, the only real options for Nuperman are either that his Earth is part of the Dark Multiverse or to replace or revise one of the 52 so that he has a home on it. My preference is still to edit him back into the primary Earth's timeline as Superman's early history (he covers both some Golden Age aspects of early Superman like starting in Metropolis before he could fly, being a social crusader, and working at the Daily Star, and some Bronze Age elements like moving on from the Daily Planet to a more modern form of media); but I don't see that happening any time soon. And putting him on another Earth would be the next best thing.

    Personally, I'd replace either Earth-31 or Earth-50: 31 was originally supposed to be Frank Miller's Dark Knight universe until Miller asked that it be pulled, leaving a void that Morrison filled with a Pirate Earth; and Earth-50 was originally the Wildstorm universe until the Flashpoint reboot folded it into the primary Earth, and Morrison replaced it with the Justice Lords alternate timeline from the DCAU.

    Pirates are neat and all; but I don't see them as being vital to the well-being of the Orrery, and could easily see them replaced by a N52-like Earth. Alternately, if the new Wild Storm universe hasn't reclaimed the Earth-50 designation, Is much rather see Nuperman and his Justice League there instead of the Justice Lords, who frankly work a heck of a lot better as an Earth -12 (that is, a Dark Multiverse counterpart to the DCAU). In fact, Earth 50 would be my preference, barring only the possibility of Wild Storm having dibs on it.
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  6. #186
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Something about him not seeing the Dark Knight universe as “merely” an alternate Earth — or even as an alternate Earth at all. Basically, he considered calling his works “Earth 31” undervalued them. At least, that's my understanding of it.
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  7. #187
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    I remember some "Unkonwn Earths" in the Multiversity Map. A New-52 like Earth could fit into one of those without replacing any of the existent Earth.

  8. #188
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Fair enough; there are seven of them, arranged symmetrically on the Multiverse map. That said, there's a case that could be made that they're Unknown for a reason, and should be left that way. Or if they do get filled in, it should be for a better reason than “we wanted to find a home for another Earth, and this spot on the map is Unknown; so why not?”
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  9. #189
    Mighty Member Lokimaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    Until Multiversity Too comes out and establishes that there are stable worlds out there beyond the 52 worlds of the Orrery, the only real options for Nuperman are either that his Earth is part of the Dark Multiverse or to replace or revise one of the 52 so that he has a home on it. My preference is still to edit him back into the primary Earth's timeline as Superman's early history (he covers both some Golden Age aspects of early Superman like starting in Metropolis before he could fly, being a social crusader, and working at the Daily Star, and some Bronze Age elements like moving on from the Daily Planet to a more modern form of media); but I don't see that happening any time soon. And putting him on another Earth would be the next best thing.

    Personally, I'd replace either Earth-31 or Earth-50: 31 was originally supposed to be Frank Miller's Dark Knight universe until Miller asked that it be pulled, leaving a void that Morrison filled with a Pirate Earth; and Earth-50 was originally the Wildstorm universe until the Flashpoint reboot folded it into the primary Earth, and Morrison replaced it with the Justice Lords alternate timeline from the DCAU.

    Pirates are neat and all; but I don't see them as being vital to the well-being of the Orrery, and could easily see them replaced by a N52-like Earth. Alternately, if the new Wild Storm universe hasn't reclaimed the Earth-50 designation, Is much rather see Nuperman and his Justice League there instead of the Justice Lords, who frankly work a heck of a lot better as an Earth -12 (that is, a Dark Multiverse counterpart to the DCAU). In fact, Earth 50 would be my preference, barring only the possibility of Wild Storm having dibs on it.
    What I find funny is that people expect Wild storm and Vertigo (Two Dark Universes) being folded into the DCU (Which was pretty Dark by that point itself) having it have zero effect on the characters and their histories.

  10. #190
    Traveler of omniverses Thor-Ul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    Until Multiversity Too comes out and establishes that there are stable worlds out there beyond the 52 worlds of the Orrery, the only real options for Nuperman are either that his Earth is part of the Dark Multiverse or to replace or revise one of the 52 so that he has a home on it. My preference is still to edit him back into the primary Earth's timeline as Superman's early history (he covers both some Golden Age aspects of early Superman like starting in Metropolis before he could fly, being a social crusader, and working at the Daily Star, and some Bronze Age elements like moving on from the Daily Planet to a more modern form of media); but I don't see that happening any time soon. And putting him on another Earth would be the next best thing.

    Personally, I'd replace either Earth-31 or Earth-50: 31 was originally supposed to be Frank Miller's Dark Knight universe until Miller asked that it be pulled, leaving a void that Morrison filled with a Pirate Earth; and Earth-50 was originally the Wildstorm universe until the Flashpoint reboot folded it into the primary Earth, and Morrison replaced it with the Justice Lords alternate timeline from the DCAU.

    Pirates are neat and all; but I don't see them as being vital to the well-being of the Orrery, and could easily see them replaced by a N52-like Earth. Alternately, if the new Wild Storm universe hasn't reclaimed the Earth-50 designation, Is much rather see Nuperman and his Justice League there instead of the Justice Lords, who frankly work a heck of a lot better as an Earth -12 (that is, a Dark Multiverse counterpart to the DCAU). In fact, Earth 50 would be my preference, barring only the possibility of Wild Storm having dibs on it.
    I also initially disliked the change on earth 31. However choosing the Batman pirate as a replacement was a creative solution. At least, in my own version, I saw it as an reference to the pirate comics which were referenced in Watchmen. There never was anofficial explanation, but it was the best solution which I could find.

    What confuses me however is than there is an unclear conception of what the dark multiverse means. They are not "evil earths" but more like unsustainable earths. Depiste being a dark universe, the justice worlds world was still pretty much stable. All the negative universes are dead after all. The idean than the dark multiverse is composed by fragmentary, loose, broken pieces of realities seems a more close aproximation to what the dark multiverse really is.

    Also, if Dark Nights Metal give us earth 53 (Monkeys!!), that means there are more than 52 universe in the orrery I can accept than there are more earths beyond the 52, with Wildstorm being the 55 and Nuperman in 211.


    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    Never heard this. What are the circumstances of this? Did he give a reason?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    Something about him not seeing the Dark Knight universe as “merely” an alternate Earth — or even as an alternate Earth at all. Basically, he considered calling his works “Earth 31” undervalued them. At least, that's my understanding of it.
    I was around the time whwn Miller wwent with his DKR3 series. Apparentely thatwas one of his conditions: nobody else could playwith his toys. If you remember before the Flashpoint, Earth 31 made an appearance with a very "Millerian" Superman working for the President of the USA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    I remember some "Unkonwn Earths" in the Multiversity Map. A New-52 like Earth could fit into one of those without replacing any of the existent Earth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    Fair enough; there are seven of them, arranged symmetrically on the Multiverse map. That said, there's a case that could be made that they're Unknown for a reason, and should be left that way. Or if they do get filled in, it should be for a better reason than “we wanted to find a home for another Earth, and this spot on the map is Unknown; so why not?”
    Right now however, there are five unknown earths: earth 14 being the home of the League of assassins (weird, I known) and apparently, earth 25 is now the home of Tom Strong & family.
    (I must add I'm proposing earth 28 for the home of any adventure of Primal age than DC could publish, but that is wishiful thinking).
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  11. #191
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor-Ul View Post
    What confuses me however is than there is an unclear conception of what the dark multiverse means. They are not "evil earths" but more like unsustainable earths. Depiste being a dark universe, the justice worlds world was still pretty much stable. All the negative universes are dead after all. The idean than the dark multiverse is composed by fragmentary, loose, broken pieces of realities seems a more close aproximation to what the dark multiverse really is.
    I'm annoyed by this too.

    Like, I get it: Metal dealt with twisted nightmare versions of Batman and the World Forge had been left untended and allowed to cool. The cosmic recycling bin was a pretty messed up place thanks to Barbatos. But it's not inherently a evil, twisted, or dark place. It's just a recycling bin. That's it.

    I know "dark multiverse" was, as a name, all about marketing and getting the concept for the Metal story across in a easy, quick way. But it really does not reflect what the place is supposed to be at all and I wish a name that was a little more on point had been chosen instead.
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  12. #192
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Not a bad idea at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    Those ideas are awesome.
    Thanks, gentlemen! I like your ideas as well!
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